US Military .45 Pistols

[gewing]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

..... also saw a SAO Sig?! OMG... OMG... might have to get one of those! Single action sig-sauer... the gun gods are truly generous! DAO Sig's trigger is too long for me, SAO is a blessing... and in the 220 no less! WHOOOT!!!!!

 

Oh yeah, and the military version thing is all right, too... not big on the protruding barrel, though, since I have no use for a silencer. =) All the beefing up with finishes and coatings is nice, though.

 

 

A friend called me for moral support. He admitted that he has developed an Addiction

 

 

TO SIGS!!!

 

 

He has four, IIRC he still wants the Sig version of the 1911 and the SAO P220.

 

I think he has 2xP220, one P245, and Maybe a P226.

 

I just have a P228.

 

oh, I think a muzzle brake on the threaded barrel might be interesting.

[freakboy6117]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

got to love those Sig's did my own modified one perfect fro one of my characters

 

[Remjin]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

On attachments... what's everyone's opinions on pistol accessories and all that? I personally don't like a lot of stuff hanging off my gun, so I'm only a fan of accessories that are onobstrusive. For example, for I like laser sights from lasermax and crimson trace because they don't hang off the gun, really, but I don't really like the ones that come as a separate module. I'm not a big fan of large muzzle-brakes and the like, either, or putting holes in my gun, or red-dot sights of any kind (though the doctor one, the real small thing, is kind of neat). I can see the need for a light, though I don't like them hanging off my pistol, but I like them on my shotgun. I don't like having to point my gun at something to light it up, though, so I'm an advocate of a separate light (nevermind any tactical discussion of lights, I just don't like the idea of pointing a gun at someone just to see who they are.)

 

I dunno.. just me. In game, I'm the same way, a lot of stuff hanging off is aesthetically ugly to me. *shrug*

[gewing]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

On attachments... what's everyone's opinions on pistol accessories and all that? I personally don't like a lot of stuff hanging off my gun, so I'm only a fan of accessories that are onobstrusive. For example, for I like laser sights from lasermax and crimson trace because they don't hang off the gun, really, but I don't really like the ones that come as a separate module. I'm not a big fan of large muzzle-brakes and the like, either, or putting holes in my gun, or red-dot sights of any kind (though the doctor one, the real small thing, is kind of neat). I can see the need for a light, though I don't like them hanging off my pistol, but I like them on my shotgun. I don't like having to point my gun at something to light it up, though, so I'm an advocate of a separate light (nevermind any tactical discussion of lights, I just don't like the idea of pointing a gun at someone just to see who they are.)

 

I dunno.. just me. In game, I'm the same way, a lot of stuff hanging off is aesthetically ugly to me. *shrug*

 

 

I tend to agree, though muzzle brakes and such don't bother me as much. I like the Lasergrips better than the Lasermax guide rod replacement, but don't like the stuff that hangs off in ways that could cause problems. OTOH, the external stuff can be a whole bunch cheaper, so I might be able to buy them.

 

The lights make a lot of sense, but again I agree, they add to bulk and look like they could cause problems on the draw.

 

The Docter Optics red dot looks good. I don't think another product I liked is still made, but it might be. It was one of the early "HUD" style red dots, and there was a version that could be installed iirc INTO the slide of a custom gun. The HUD folded down, and when drawn out of the holster it popped up on springs. Now, I don't know if I would trust that on a Defensive handgun without a lot of testing, but on a hunting style pistol...

[Dog Soldier]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

The one place that I can see for an accesorized handgun is for a "house gun". I'd install XS 24/7 Express Sights on a 1911 with a frame mounted light that had instant on/off, maybe a grip mounted laser as well, and a companion light for the support hand.

[gewing]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

The one place that I can see for an accesorized handgun is for a "house gun". I'd install XS 24/7 Express Sights on a 1911 with a frame mounted light that had instant on/off' date=' maybe a grip mounted laser as well, and a companion light for the support hand.[/quote']

 

 

 

I prefer a more conventional night sight, as on my Kimber Pro-carry II.

 

Better precision if you need it, imo adequate speed.

 

 

If I was building a purpose designed "Home Defense gun" I would probably use an M-1 Carbine as the basis, put a laser sight and a flashlight on it, a pistol grip folding stock, and night sights if possible. Loaded with 100gr CorBon DPX...

 

Low recoil, easy aiming, rapid fire, significant stopping power.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

I'm not much for attachments/accessories either. Always thought laser sights on a pistol were worse-than-useless; they lead the firer to focus more on shot placement and less on a smooth trigger pull, and the later causes far more misses than the former IMX. But then I haven't done a whole lot of shootingwith laser sights, so maybe that's something that you overcome with training?

 

I used to work with a woman that had customized Pachmayr handgrips on the Sig she carried (P226 IIRC) because her hand was too small to hold it steady with the normal grips. Seemed to work all right for her.

[Remjin]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

I've done some shooting with a laser sight, and I personally quite enjoyed it. I wasn't working on sight alignment, just placing the dot, and pressing the trigger. Got pretty good groups with it out of a Sig P226. I didn't have as much success with the lasermax unit in a glock 21, though, probably because the owner of the gun isn't exactly good with his equipment. All of his gear tended to be broken, only half functional, or just plain off somehow. I have yet to use the crimson trace unit, however.

 

As for sights... the three dot system doesn't work for me, don't know why, but I just can't seem to adjust. I started out on black iron sights, then the S&W revolver sights... and now I'm back to black iron sights. I shoot stock glock sights well, probably because its just a white outline rear and a front dot, and I've shot the XS sights pretty well, or even a dot front and black rear. I am curious about those wierd triangle sights, but my thinking is that I'll just stare at the triangle like a moron.

 

As for a house gun, I have two. The primary is a Remington 870 with Wilson ghost ring sight with tritium, surefire fore-end with light, Knoxx Spec-Ops stock (collapsible stock with 2 recoil absorbers in AR style that I got mostly for kicks and giggles because I actually prefer a standard stock shortened one inch), and a side-saddle. I just keep plain ol' 00 buck in it with a few slugs on the saddle just in case... and its primary purpose is to keep people off my 2nd floor in a defensive manner (one stairway, and my whole family sleeps on that floor). If I have to go investigate something, I just bring my S-A 1911A1 Hi-Cap, which is pretty plain except for the 14+1 230 grain Gold Dot JHPs and the Surefire Nitrolon flashlight.

 

I used to live in a neighborhood that had a lot of break-ins leading to assaults and even rapes, (at least, a lot to me... one is way too much for me, and our area had about a half dozen) so I'd taken to being a bit more prepared than my executioner's knife (I studied kung fu, it was related to my training).

 

Now to back all that up is my wife with her S&W 626+ .357... so we're pretty covered, though not in the manner I'd prefer.

 

I'd REALLY like a semi-automatic carbine in .45 ACP or possibly even .223, but I'm still looking for my solution to that one... and we've talked about that already. =) And probably adding a Remington 11-87 Police similarly to the 870 (except with a traditional rigid stock) just because I'm a firm believer in shotguns, and it'd make a decent long gun for the wife.

 

And, btw, us having talked about this as long as we have might qualify us for "gun nut" status, though I hardly think of myself that way.

[Remjin]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

I'm not much for attachments/accessories either. Always thought laser sights on a pistol were worse-than-useless; they lead the firer to focus more on shot placement and less on a smooth trigger pull, and the later causes far more misses than the former IMX. But then I haven't done a whole lot of shootingwith laser sights, so maybe that's something that you overcome with training?

 

I used to work with a woman that had customized Pachmayr handgrips on the Sig she carried (P226 IIRC) because her hand was too small to hold it steady with the normal grips. Seemed to work all right for her.

 

Oh yes, and regarding the laser thing... another advantage I found interesting was shooting the gun while NOT looking over it (e.g. from the left side of the booth, holding the pistol around a shooting bench with my right hand) which could be quite the advantage, if not exactly a target-shooting method for tight groupings.

 

As for grips... I'm all about customizing grips to fit the hand. As a revolver lover, it can make a HUGE difference, and hand fit is very important to me for proper and comfortable shooting. I'm one of those guys who likes a pretty good sized grip but have average, at best, sized hands. I'm surprised about the pachayrs though, those are usually a grip for making things a bit larger or at least softer. Nice wooden grips with no finger grooves for me, rounded nicely, with slight palm swells.

[gewing]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

I've done some shooting with a laser sight, and I personally quite enjoyed it. I wasn't working on sight alignment, just placing the dot, and pressing the trigger. Got pretty good groups with it out of a Sig P226. I didn't have as much success with the lasermax unit in a glock 21, though, probably because the owner of the gun isn't exactly good with his equipment. All of his gear tended to be broken, only half functional, or just plain off somehow. I have yet to use the crimson trace unit, however.

 

As for sights... the three dot system doesn't work for me, don't know why, but I just can't seem to adjust. I started out on black iron sights, then the S&W revolver sights... and now I'm back to black iron sights. I shoot stock glock sights well, probably because its just a white outline rear and a front dot, and I've shot the XS sights pretty well, or even a dot front and black rear. I am curious about those wierd triangle sights, but my thinking is that I'll just stare at the triangle like a moron.

 

As for a house gun, I have two. The primary is a Remington 870 with Wilson ghost ring sight with tritium, surefire fore-end with light, Knoxx Spec-Ops stock (collapsible stock with 2 recoil absorbers in AR style that I got mostly for kicks and giggles because I actually prefer a standard stock shortened one inch), and a side-saddle. I just keep plain ol' 00 buck in it with a few slugs on the saddle just in case... and its primary purpose is to keep people off my 2nd floor in a defensive manner (one stairway, and my whole family sleeps on that floor). If I have to go investigate something, I just bring my S-A 1911A1 Hi-Cap, which is pretty plain except for the 14+1 230 grain Gold Dot JHPs and the Surefire Nitrolon flashlight.

 

I used to live in a neighborhood that had a lot of break-ins leading to assaults and even rapes, (at least, a lot to me... one is way too much for me, and our area had about a half dozen) so I'd taken to being a bit more prepared than my executioner's knife (I studied kung fu, it was related to my training).

 

Now to back all that up is my wife with her S&W 626+ .357... so we're pretty covered, though not in the manner I'd prefer.

 

I'd REALLY like a semi-automatic carbine in .45 ACP or possibly even .223, but I'm still looking for my solution to that one... and we've talked about that already. =) And probably adding a Remington 11-87 Police similarly to the 870 (except with a traditional rigid stock) just because I'm a firm believer in shotguns, and it'd make a decent long gun for the wife.

 

And, btw, us having talked about this as long as we have might qualify us for "gun nut" status, though I hardly think of myself that way.

 

 

I don't have to think about myself that way, I KNOW I am one:eg:

[Dog Soldier]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

I've used Express Sights on my full size 1911 since 1998 and haven't had any problems with accuracy. Of course I've been using them since 1998 so that could be it as well

[bigdamnhero]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

I've done some shooting with a laser sight' date=' and I personally quite enjoyed it. I wasn't working on sight alignment, just placing the dot, and pressing the trigger. Got pretty good groups with it out of a Sig P226. I didn't have as much success with the lasermax unit in a glock 21, though, probably because the owner of the gun isn't exactly good with his equipment. All of his gear tended to be broken, only half functional, or just plain off somehow. I have yet to use the crimson trace unit, however.[/quote']

Maybe my prejudice come from the fact that all the folks with laser sights that I've ever shot against seemed to use them as a crutch for bad shooting, rather than an aid to good shooting. YMMV may vary, and in fact it sounds like it does.

 

The one good thing to be said for laser sights is that they allow you to focus on your target, rather than on your front sight post. For combat shooting, that's a pretty big plus.

 

And' date=' btw, us having talked about this as long as we have might qualify us for "gun nut" status, though I hardly think of myself that way. [/quote']

You think? Although I don't think I quite qualify for capital-G capital-N Gun Nut status either.

 

I'm surprised about the pachayrs though' date=' those are usually a grip for making things a bit larger or at least softer. [/quote']

That's what I thought too, but apparantly they also make smaller grips, marketed primarily towards women. She called them her [sounds like wussy] Pachmyr grips.

[Remjin]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

Maybe my prejudice come from the fact that all the folks with laser sights that I've ever shot against seemed to use them as a crutch for bad shooting, rather than an aid to good shooting. YMMV may vary, and in fact it sounds like it does.

 

The one good thing to be said for laser sights is that they allow you to focus on your target, rather than on your front sight post. For combat shooting, that's a pretty big plus.

 

Yeah, there are a lot of guys who are just compensating. I remember being at the range once and seeing three guys with about $2000 in equipment each... competition style guns, spiffy sights, all the fixins. While I was shooting I noticed them up in an uproar... as it turns out, because some of them were having trouble hitting the target, and had just shot the wall.

 

But, like you said, for those who can shoot half decently and have a clue about what they're doing, the laser is very useful because of the focus you stated. I found it kind of liberating, though I dislike the idea of depending on a battery powered unit to be able to hit things, I think it would make a nice complement to normal sighted shooting. Another one of those "rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it" deals.

 

You think? Although I don't think I quite qualify for capital-G capital-N Gun Nut status either.

 

Maybe. Its all a matter of perspective, I guess.

 

That's what I thought too' date=' but apparantly they also make smaller grips, marketed primarily towards women. She called them her [sounds like wussy'] Pachmyr grips.

 

Huh, who would have thought... cool. Heh, better than calling them Pacman grips. =)

[Checkmate]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

Well being in the Military, and having to use these weapons, I can only hope the .45 they choose is HEAVY, 'cause if it comes right down to it, I'm better off using it as a club than actually trying to hit what I shoot at.

 

I'm not a huge gun buff, but I qualify Expert with the 9mm every time, and it isn't unusual for me to get a perfect score. The M1911 is a WHOLE different story. I could aim for the ground and miss.

[gewing]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

Well being in the Military, and having to use these weapons, I can only hope the .45 they choose is HEAVY, 'cause if it comes right down to it, I'm better off using it as a club than actually trying to hit what I shoot at.

 

I'm not a huge gun buff, but I qualify Expert with the 9mm every time, and it isn't unusual for me to get a perfect score. The M1911 is a WHOLE different story. I could aim for the ground and miss.

 

 

that is kind of odd. I have always seemed to shoot pretty much any .45 better than just about any 9mm.

[Remjin]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

Well, being in the military, and if he's using the same old 1911s of yore... they're nearly falling apart and they're pretty bad from my understanding. They've just been refurbishing the same pistols over and over for a very long time.

 

My father-in-law told me from when he was in the army (vietnam) and he had to qualify with the pistol, it was pretty much luck as far as qualifying expert with it (which he did) because the pistol was so inaccurate. They literally rattled if you shook them, they were so loose.

 

Or, he may just not be comfortable with the 1911... if he shoots berettas well, he's much more accustomed to the more angled and curving grip than the 1911s relatively straight grip (isn't it like 11 degrees?) or its narrow profile.

 

*shrug* I shoot 1911s better with an arched mainspring because I'm used to a more curved grip as well from years of revolver shooting. The arch corrects my tendency to point the pistol downward.

[gewing]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

Well, being in the military, and if he's using the same old 1911s of yore... they're nearly falling apart and they're pretty bad from my understanding. They've just been refurbishing the same pistols over and over for a very long time.

 

My father-in-law told me from when he was in the army (vietnam) and he had to qualify with the pistol, it was pretty much luck as far as qualifying expert with it (which he did) because the pistol was so inaccurate. They literally rattled if you shook them, they were so loose.

 

Or, he may just not be comfortable with the 1911... if he shoots berettas well, he's much more accustomed to the more angled and curving grip than the 1911s relatively straight grip (isn't it like 11 degrees?) or its narrow profile.

 

*shrug* I shoot 1911s better with an arched mainspring because I'm used to a more curved grip as well from years of revolver shooting. The arch corrects my tendency to point the pistol downward.

 

 

 

I just plain don't really like the Beretta. Grip too big, trigger reach too long...

[bigdamnhero]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

Well, being in the military, and if he's using the same old 1911s of yore... they're nearly falling apart and they're pretty bad from my understanding. They've just been refurbishing the same pistols over and over for a very long time.

They literally rattled if you shook them, they were so loose.

Yup. It wasn't until after I got "decommisioned" that I found out how accurate a newly-minted, well-maintained M1911 can be.

 

The Beretta's okay; not spectacular, but all right. I'd rather have a Sig, of course, but what country can afford to hand out Cadillacs to all their troops?

[Remjin]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

I actually kind of like the beretta. You're right on trigger reach, though, it is a tad long... but I seem to shoot it okay. I like the fit and finish on them, at least the civilian versions. =) I think they recoil too much for 9mm, though, so I'd probably have the brigadier slide if I got one, supposedly its heavier. I've never seen a 9mm recoil that much out of such a large gun. *shrug* Other than that, it was all right.

 

That new SAO Sig is really making me itch to buy a new gun... probably the 220. All the joys of a 1911 (SA, safety lever, .45 ACP) with the reliability and factory accuracy of a sig... yummy...

[gewing]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

I actually kind of like the beretta. You're right on trigger reach, though, it is a tad long... but I seem to shoot it okay. I like the fit and finish on them, at least the civilian versions. =) I think they recoil too much for 9mm, though, so I'd probably have the brigadier slide if I got one, supposedly its heavier. I've never seen a 9mm recoil that much out of such a large gun. *shrug* Other than that, it was all right.

 

That new SAO Sig is really making me itch to buy a new gun... probably the 220. All the joys of a 1911 (SA, safety lever, .45 ACP) with the reliability and factory accuracy of a sig... yummy...

 

 

I suspect that the Beretta has a higher bore line compared do the grip, giving it more leverage in recoil. If that makes any sense.

 

The Sig SAO is iirc supposed to have a very nice trigger, basically a two stage one. I believe it is also completely ambidextrous.

[Remjin]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

Yeah, the high bore line thing makes sense. I have a Hammerli Trailside, and while its only a .22 LR, the bore line is barely above my hand if at all, and it kicks even less than the steel .22 revolver. Its subjective, as I'd hardly actually call the recoil of a .22 LR a "kick" but you know what I mean. =)

 

Dunno about two-stage, but i don't mind them too much, so long as the stroke as a whole is still short, and the reset doesn't require you to release through the take-up.

[gewing]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

Yeah, the high bore line thing makes sense. I have a Hammerli Trailside, and while its only a .22 LR, the bore line is barely above my hand if at all, and it kicks even less than the steel .22 revolver. Its subjective, as I'd hardly actually call the recoil of a .22 LR a "kick" but you know what I mean. =)

 

Dunno about two-stage, but i don't mind them too much, so long as the stroke as a whole is still short, and the reset doesn't require you to release through the take-up.

 

 

 

My brother has a Trailside. I didn't scrape up the money to buy one, I already had A browning Buckmark 5.5 (?) field target.

[Remjin]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

My brother has a Trailside. I didn't scrape up the money to buy one' date=' I already had A browning Buckmark 5.5 (?) field target.[/quote']

 

I didn't like the buckmark much.. trigger broke like it had a ragged tin can crushed into shape for its sear. The Beretta NEO's was "crunchy" too. Bugged the crap out of me. Oddly, the Ruger one had a good trigger as well, but the Trailside is just so spiffy looking and felt nice in the hand while the Ruger felt a bit... clumsy. Didn't help that one of the screws holding the reciever onto the tube dug into the web of my hand either.. not painfully, just uncomfortably.

 

Argh... now I really really want to buy a new gun... but I just bought a PDA phone... *sigh* And I'm probably going to have to save up to build up this 383 I'm building this winter...

[gewing]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

I didn't like the buckmark much.. trigger broke like it had a ragged tin can crushed into shape for its sear. The Beretta NEO's was "crunchy" too. Bugged the crap out of me. Oddly, the Ruger one had a good trigger as well, but the Trailside is just so spiffy looking and felt nice in the hand while the Ruger felt a bit... clumsy. Didn't help that one of the screws holding the reciever onto the tube dug into the web of my hand either.. not painfully, just uncomfortably.

 

Argh... now I really really want to buy a new gun... but I just bought a PDA phone... *sigh* And I'm probably going to have to save up to build up this 383 I'm building this winter...

 

 

 

My buckmark has a pretty good trigger. I want to get a red dot to put on top of it.

[Remjin]

Re: US Military .45 Pistols

 

Red dots are fun. I have one on my S&W 629 V-comp... its awesome. S'long as I get the trigger press right, it hits right where I point it. =)