SuperPheemy Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Re: How to handle Western Hero Duels/Showdowns I'd start with simultaneous PRE attacks, representing the staredown. Giving bonus dice for Reputation, and roleplaying. If both parties are still willing to go to work afterwards, we'd continue with normal DEX based initiative (with appropriate bonuses for Fast Draw, Hip Shooting, etc...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Re: How to handle Western Hero Duels/Showdowns No-one has mentioned the Law yet. One of the reasons for the staredown would be to make a nervous opponent draw first so that you could shoot him in self-defence. "But he drew first Marshall, ask anyone..." That could be an effect of the PRE Attack - rather than simply do nothing the result of the win is for the loser to go for their gun but too slowly and clumsily to get a shot off. I would have the PRE Attacks provide a running tally of wins and losses. At any time a PRE Attack could "go for your guns PRE" and the loser would go for their guns regardless of the state of the conflict - otherwise the winner goes for their guns first. This is only usually important in the aftermath but it could mean the difference between a drink and a game of poker or danglin' at the end of rope. The running tally could be used to make your opponent nervous and reduce his CV. I would allow them their full fast-draw skill but the shot might be wild. The tally could, instead, affect fast draw so that the loser draws slowly allowing the winner to decide what they want to do with their shot. This gives first shot advantage to the winner. The tally could instead apply to hit location allowing the winner to be more accurate in their attack - head shot for a clean kill or a hand shot to shoot away their pistol. I would allow any reasonable skill to replace/supplement PRE in this depending on the circumstances. I think that the idea is to make the duel as dynamic and interesting as possible while the combatants stand still and stare into each others eyes. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Re: How to handle Western Hero Duels/Showdowns The tally could instead apply to hit location allowing the winner to be more accurate in their attack - head shot for a clean kill or a hand shot to shoot away their pistol. Would an 1870's black-powder handgun really be accurate enough to allow you to do either of those things? I can see a rifle doing that, but not a pistol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Re: How to handle Western Hero Duels/Showdowns Would an 1870's black-powder handgun really be accurate enough to allow you to do either of those things? I can see a rifle doing that' date=' but not a pistol.[/quote'] Depends if you're talking Deadwood or the Good the Bad and the Ugly. If you'er talking deadwood, I'll bet most of the duels we're talking about didn't happen - it was pretty much shoot first and claim he drew on you... In Western Hero I think I'd be playing spaghetti westerns more often than gritty realisations of the Old West, and in those circumstances I want my I Protagonisti to blow clean holes through the heads of any Peons that get in his way. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publius Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Re: How to handle Western Hero Duels/Showdowns What about the old notion that it isn't the fastest gun but the coolest hand that wins a gunfight? Never having been in a gunfight, I could not say from personal experience, but I've heard this old saw enough in Westerns (which of course isn't always historically accurate, but is the basis of the genre for Western HERO). I like the idea of trading OCV for DEX, but what about switching that to an Ego roll, modified accordingly, to get off the shot without the penalty maybe? Or how about this: The Gamemaster starts counting down (or up depending on how you think of it) negatives. -1.... -2... -3... -4... Step One: A Game of chicken. The first one to draw (by saying something like 'Draw!') applies whatever number they are on to their Fast Draw (or Dex-2) roll to see if they can get the shot off first. If they make the roll, they go first. The one that waited them out gets to make a Fast draw check as well, using half of that penalty (i.e. if the GM was down to -4 they would only be at -2). If both fail, they go at the same time. Step Two: Cooler Hands Prevail (maybe) Then the EGO check to see how Cool he stays thus keeping his aim steady, the guy that went first makes an EGO check with the minus that he went on. If the first guy blows the roll, he takes the full penalty (whatever number the GM was on when they said 'Draw!') from his OCV. The guy that went second also makes an EGo check with the minus that the action starts with, but if he fails he only gets half the Penalty. (i.e. they went on -4, he makes an EGO check with a -4 penalty but if he blows it only gets a -2 OCV) Step Three: Gunsmoke Abundant Fire in the appropriate order, making certain that you apply the range and all other modifiers. Variant: If one of them is shot but not stunned, allow them to fire at a -4 (or whatever you deem appropriate having just been shot). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Re: How to handle Western Hero Duels/Showdowns What about the old notion that it isn't the fastest gun but the coolest hand that wins a gunfight? Cool ideas and something to add some drama to the gunfight. Always a good thing, repped. Anyway, the fastest cool hand probably beats the coolest fast hand... Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 Re: How to handle Western Hero Duels/Showdowns How about expanding the Hurry and Hipshot maneuvers? Hipshot should probably limited to one level, but would Hurry still be a balanced option if the GM allowed a player to Really Hurry (+2d6/-4), and Really, Really Hurry (+3d6/-6)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Omega Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Re: How to handle Western Hero Duels/Showdowns I'm wondering whether this is the right approach. But to explore my ideas, let me posit something entirely different: Imagine a sword-using culture where the duel has been elevated to high importance. There is a ritual involved called "showing the steel"; you can partially draw your sword and then re-sheathe it to back down, but if the tip ever leqaves the scabbard you are committed to fight until a conclusion is reached (blood is drawn, or one of you is incapacitated, or to the death). Just about the best indication you could get you were going too far with something in Sengoku Japan was when a samurai flicked the hilt out to show an inch or two of the blade. There might not be a duel, but he's showing he's willing to fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Johnston Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Re: How to handle Western Hero Duels/Showdowns Autofire' date=' Usable only against mooks[/quote'] Clint was usually written and played as having a killer Presence attack. Good for letting people with 10 Presence just stand around and let you shoot them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMiller Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: How to handle Western Hero Duels/Showdowns It lives!! Ok, I wanted to resurrect this thread as I'm considering a Western Hero game. What do you think of every 3 points that you beat the other person's PRE gives you a +1 OCV, or reduces their FD roll by 1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flames Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: How to handle Western Hero Duels/Showdowns I think that sounds more like a Superskill to me, OCV levels that are tied to a PRE Attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Re: How to handle Western Hero Duels/Showdowns Very very interesting thread here. Thanks y'all for the insight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Re: How to handle Western Hero Duels/Showdowns Since, logically, any gunslinger worthy of the title will have Fast Draw,,,. I'm not sure that's true. Most gunfights didn't happen in the formalized hollywood style. It was rare for two men to face off duel-style. Gunfights usu. erupted spontaneously with one man deciding to go for a gun and the other one reacting, or as a confrontation that had some planning and tactics involved. It was more a question of who had better planning, circumstance, wits and aim than "I said draw, durnit!" reflexes. For Hollywood gunslingers fast draw is all important. For gunslingers in the old west, common sense, tactics and good aim were king. Its a question of what you're emulating. For this thread... fast draw. But for most games I run, not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Re: How to handle Western Hero Duels/Showdowns Wow, double necromancy. It just won't stay dead! I'm gonna go find my Holy Chainsaw and Blessed Shotgun and see if I can put this thing down once and for all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Re: How to handle Western Hero Duels/Showdowns Wow' date=' double necromancy. It just won't stay dead! I'm gonna go find my Holy Chainsaw and Blessed Shotgun and see if I can put this thing down once and for all! [/quote'] The postbellum era of the 19th century is a favorite of mine. Not just the Old West, though I enjoy the milieu, but also the commensurate Gilded and Victorian ages. Its a much neglected era and genre for role-playing that has a lot of potential for pulpy stories. I'm working on some dark fantasy in the postbellum Americas fantasy shorts and was looking for "western hero" threads. I figured it was an old thread, but I wanted to comment, anyways. And a mere shotgun won't do it. You need a genre appropriate coachgun to kill this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brionl Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Re: How to handle Western Hero Duels/Showdowns Clint was usually written and played as having a killer Presence attack. Good for letting people with 10 Presence just stand around and let you shoot them. Presence attack is good, but TMWNN probably also has a lot of combat tricks, such as autofire naked advantage and things like that. Have you seen the Mythbusters episode where they did "Wild West Gun Myths"? Such as dropping a coin and firing six times before it hit the ground? Even the schlubbs from the show could get off 2-3 shots, and the fast draw expert did 5 shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted October 27, 2010 Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 Re: How to handle Western Hero Duels/Showdowns Very very interesting thread here. Thanks y'all for the insight! I read a quote once attributed to a western writer ( I think it may have been Loius L'Amour) on western gunfights. "Speed's fine, but accuracy is final !" The other points to make on "real" western gunfightsis that most of them took place at quite close range and that before going into one you should remember the old addage "There aint no such thing as an unfair advantage !":) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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