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Elves


CourtFool

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Re: Elves

 

Are you sure you don't mean Mary Sues? :)

 

I was kind of surprised at how many people made elves these otherworldly immortal spirity things rather than a simple long-lived humanoid race. I've never encountered the like in a game.

 

It's not suprising. You mentioned earlier that you don't read fantasy literature. I presume it means you aren't familiar with many of the tropes of the genre and the source material used by game designers. Tolkein (for example) is basically the equivalent to fantasy as Asimov is to science fiction. Classic foundational stuff from which many modern things are derived. In almost exactly the same way that D&D is the foundation of roleplaying.

 

In some cases, they are based on even earlier literature such as mythology.

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Re: Elves

 

I don't make a particularly firm distinction between the Elves and the Gods in my campaign.

 

I doubt I would let anyone play one. I definitely would let someone play one of their mortal offspring. The main problem with playing them is that the less powerful they are, the more localised they tend to be. And the only ones that aren't built on insane point totals are the least powerful ones...

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Re: Elves

 

In my fantasy game, all the elves are assumed dead. Magic went away about 60 year ago, and so all the magic that was keeping them young and perfect went away.

 

Most of the elves simply died, mortality came back all too swifty for elves who were used to spend decades on projects. Some were smart and quick enough to flee in the hopes of finding a place that still had enough magic to surrive. Whether they made it is unknown.

 

Only humans and near-humans, with their strange non-magical metabolisms could surrive the loss of magic.

 

30 years ago, magic returned, slowly and not in the form that it was before. (Fantasy Hero rather than AD&D)

 

So now there are new magical creatures, in addition to the near humans that surrived without magic.

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Re: Elves

 

It's been my observation that many people say they hate elves, when what they mean is that they hate "that guy who just absolutely has to play an elf in every single game/setting/campaign and who just won't shut up about how cool they are, and you get sick of listening to him, but he's been in your gaming group for 15 years and he's still playing the same damn character he was playing in 8th grade, only cheezier, and it'd be pathetic if it weren't starting to get a little creepy."

 

The actual Elves themselves are largely innocent, but get caught in the crossfire.

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Re: Elves

 

It's not suprising. You mentioned earlier that you don't read fantasy literature. I presume it means you aren't familiar with many of the tropes of the genre and the source material used by game designers. Tolkein (for example) is basically the equivalent to fantasy as Asimov is to science fiction. Classic foundational stuff from which many modern things are derived. In almost exactly the same way that D&D is the foundation of roleplaying.

 

In some cases, they are based on even earlier literature such as mythology.

 

I suppose so. What I've read of Tolkien and Asimov never particularly impressed me, so I'm perfectly content to just use the game books as 'source' material and consider that the basis. :) And I'm pretty burned out on Tolkien-esque gameworlds (which is what drew me first to Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed, then to Eberron), so ... yeah, I'm good with that.

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Re: Elves

 

Are you sure you don't mean Mary Sues? :)

 

I was kind of surprised at how many people made elves these otherworldly immortal spirity things rather than a simple long-lived humanoid race. I've never encountered the like in a game.

 

What? Like humans, but with better sanitation and medical benefits? ;)

 

I have to admit to throwing off one player, when I described an elf npc in one of my games as having a neatly-trimmed beard. The player argued with me for several minutes that he must be a half-elf, since everyone knows that elves can't grow facial hair, to which my response was, "Believe what you want, but (the elf) is getting a bit upset about the way you're questioning his parentage."

 

So, yes, the elves in my game world tend to be less ethereal, and more physical. Think of them as a race that achieved longevity through superior magic.

 

JoeG

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Re: Elves

 

I wrote up a set of pages titled "What Everyone Knows About ____" and companion pieces "What ____s Know." Thus when I run a fantasy game, I can hand this out to anyone wanting to know how Elves (or whatever) work as I envision them. If you want to play an Elf, you get to see "What Elves Know." Anyone can see "What Everyone Knows About Elves" and get the game world's "conventional wisdom" - just remember that "What Everyone Knows" is sometimes wrong! And yes, there is also a "What Everyone Knows about Humans" and "What Humans Know."

 

What Everyone Knows About Elves

 

They live forever - or, from a Human standpoint, might as well. They are all magicians, often both subtle and powerful. Most are skilled with sword, staff, and bow. They are such masters of woodcraft that an army of them could pass a sentry unseen and unheard. They have sharp ears, see in the dark, and are never surprised, even in sleep. Each knows the lore of several Human lifetimes, but they are secretive, mysterious, and not to be fully trusted, for if they speak at all they may lie, speak in riddles, or be misleading. Some of them aren't above stealing either. The worst of them may: steal children, or even adults, keep them captive for centuries, and finally let them go when tired of them; ambush with their magick arrows to strike a person deaf, dumb, blind, or lame; and curse crops and cattle, for they love not to see such things when they remember when the whole world was a wilderness and all plants and animals grew wild and free. Even the most friendly of them look down on other beings, but are too polite to say so. Elves excel at every kind of art, trade, or craft, except blacksmith, for they cannot abide the touch of iron; that metal is poison to them. They are graceful, but not strong or sturdy. Elves are often noble and wise in their own ways, but their ways are forever strange to mortals.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Copyright Palindromedary Enterprises 2002

Any chance we can see What Elves Know?

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Re: Elves

 

Are you sure you don't mean Mary Sues? :)

 

I was kind of surprised at how many people made elves these otherworldly immortal spirity things rather than a simple long-lived humanoid race. I've never encountered the like in a game.

 

Would it surprise you if you learned that most games that have angels make them exceptionally wise and powerful beings with strong ethical or spiritual motivations and perhaps a special connection to the Divine, as opposed to just making them "people with wings?"

 

I should clarify. It's not that I don't like elves. It's that I detest elves. ;)

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, Old Man, but aren't you the one with the story about the player that has as its climactic line "I shapechange into an Elf!" If you told that one, I'm sure some people would understand better where all the antielven sentiment comes from.

 

Not that I agree or sympathize, but I can understand it.

 

Any chance we can see What Elves Know?

 

Do you expect to live that long? ;)

 

Okay, seriously, if you want I can dig that out and post it.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary notes that it's noon.

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Re: Elves

 

It's quite a leap from reacting to that' date=' to the bile I've seen spat upon elves in this thread.[/quote']

 

Some of the other posters touched on it. But IIRC (or maybe it's just the way I decided to remember it ;) ), the early RPG game designers seemed to be unnaturally in "love" with the whole elf thing. It seemed that in any RPG you had:

 

1) humans (the baseline)

2) Non-human PC races (varied around the baseline)

3) and Elves (uber PC's that were granted mega powers and routinely "broke" the rules/game conventions "just because they were elves).

 

Most games degenerated with the party becoming "The Elf with his servants" (the rest of the PC's) or the party was all Elves. There were attempts to balance things, but overall, an Elf thief was better than most other races as a thief, as a fighter, as a mage and so on. Where a specific race out excelled an Elf, they lost in the overall scheme. Take the Elf thief. Yes a Halfling thief was a better thief, but not by much. And the Elf thief was a better fighter than most humans, where the Halfling thief defined "suckage" when it came to fighting.

 

Over the years this problem has been more or less "fixed". Either rules wise or because the GM's running the games are much better at what they do. Back at the start GM's were just figuring out how to spell GM (DM:sneaky: ), let alone figuring out how to control the play balance of their games PC party.

 

I am pretty sure that most of the vitriol you see is held over from those days….

 

Just an opinion, you realize….:D

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Re: Elves

 

By the way, any of you that would like to can send me your Elf Packages and background info and Ill add them to my collection of Elf Packages on the High Fantasy HERO site; be sure to include the name you want to be credited by and if you like an email address for people to contact you with....

 

Here is the list thus far:

 

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Content/RacePackageDeals/elfPackages.shtml

 

email me at killershrike@killershrike.com

 

The same invitation applies to other Fantasy races as well.

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Re: Elves

 

When I GMed a Fantasy hero game a few years back I had a lot of different elven cultures, both good and evil. Did the whole good vs evil a long time ago angle. The good side eventually made its way to different parts of the world and became Wood, Sea, Desert elves. Very similar to human tribes, but with elvish culture that has been handed down for thousands upon thousands of years. The good elves won the war.

 

For the evil side I combined both the DnD angle and the Warhammer angle. A few hundred years after the Good vs Evil war the evil elves had a war of their own. Neither side won. About half moved underground and half moved to the frozen northlands. The underground ones became the standard DnD Drow who worship and follow Lloth. The ones that moved to the frozen north became the standard Warhammer Druchii who worship the Dark God Khaine.

 

I did something simular with the orcs. Instead of being evil, they had more of a celtic/germanic tribal thing going.

 

Dwarves had the good and evil as well, just like humans, and Fae (elves were not fae in my game). I think that the only ones that didnt have an evil side to them were the Halflings, Gnomes, and Kender. There were different cultures for them of course. The halflings had the standard hill folk and the Elwin which were their forest dwelling brethren. The gnomes had the underground relatives called Svirfneblin.

 

To bad that game didnt last all that long.

 

Sorry. I kinda got off topic. :)

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Re: Elves

 

I should point out that Elves are routinely vilified in my campaign - even moreso than any other non-human race. They're regarded as soul-less pagans and corrupters of the faithful. Humans are the dominant race, and the Church as the dominant religion doesn't like them. Dwarves are only tolerated these days because of the gifts they created for the gods in the old days (ie Mjolnir, the spears of Odin, etc)

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Re: Elves

 

I should point out that Elves are routinely vilified in my campaign - even moreso than any other non-human race. They're regarded as soul-less pagans and corrupters of the faithful. Humans are the dominant race' date=' and the Church as the dominant religion doesn't like them. Dwarves are only tolerated these days because of the gifts they created for the gods in the old days (ie Mjolnir, the spears of Odin, etc)[/quote']

 

Ah ... religious bull****. Something else I don't deal with, though that's another thread and/or rant. There's a reason 99 percent of my characters are atheists. :)

 

And to the palindromedary, no, that doesn't surprise me, since angels are outsiders. Elves are humanoids. I've never seen elves depicted anywhere having any weird powers other than living 800 years or so before dropping dead.

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Re: Elves

 

Wow' date=' that's just stupid. On their part, I mean.[/quote']

 

Thinking back, I also got caned by the moderators because I posted a picture (in a thread about Wood Elves) that I had adulterated to show a wood elf mage crucified. They decided that I was insulting Christians. I could only think that exposure to roleplaying and fantasy wargaming had so warped their brains that they could no longer differentiate between reality and fantasy. To save them I converted to another major world religion and blew them up.

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Re: Elves

 

Ah ... religious bull****. Something else I don't deal with, though that's another thread and/or rant. There's a reason 99 percent of my characters are atheists. :)

 

And to the palindromedary, no, that doesn't surprise me, since angels are outsiders. Elves are humanoids. I've never seen elves depicted anywhere having any weird powers other than living 800 years or so before dropping dead.

 

Outsiders?

 

 

Anyhow, religion is important to my setting as belief is intrinsically linked to magic, and the gods exist (although they aren't what we would regard as gods).

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