Bazza Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Which one is the guy? JG both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gillen Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Sad puppy: [ATTACH=CONFIG]43958[/ATTACH] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gillen Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Pariah again." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster So, Beta Ray Bill walks into a bar. The bartender takes one look at him and says, "Hey, fella, why the long face?" [ATTACH=CONFIG]43967[/ATTACH] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster So, Beta Ray Bill walks into a bar. The bartender takes one look at him and says, "Hey, fella, why the long face?" [ATTACH=CONFIG]43967[/ATTACH] Sif never complained... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Celt Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster linkage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster I fail to see what is wrong with a double negative other than that professional grammarians don't understand that they are used for emphasis and do not contradict each other. A good linguist bases his practices on the way people actually talk, which is why the most famous linguist in popular fiction, Henry Higgins of Pygmalion and My Fair Lady, had completely missed the point of his discipline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gillen Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster There was always a certain contradiction in that line, wasn't there? JG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster I fail to see what is wrong with a double negative other than that professional grammarians don't understand that they are used for emphasis and do not contradict each other. A good linguist bases his practices on the way people actually talk' date=' which is why the most famous linguist in popular fiction, Henry Higgins of [i']Pygmalion[/i] and My Fair Lady, had completely missed the point of his discipline. On the contrary, Higgins based his practices exactly on the way people actually talk--but he made the obvious distinction between class-based patterns of speech. Double negatives are a hallmark of lower classes in both England and the U.S. Had he wagered that he could pass off a highborn princess as a Cockney flower girl, he'd have taught the poor rich girl to use them. (In my opinion this would actually have been more difficult.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster On the contrary' date=' Higgins based his practices exactly on the way people actually talk--but he made the obvious distinction between class-based patterns of speech. Double negatives are a hallmark of lower classes in both England and the U.S. Had he wagered that he could pass off a highborn princess as a Cockney flower girl, he'd have taught the poor rich girl to use them. (In my opinion this would actually have been more difficult.)[/quote'] I think there was a bit of "moral" reasoning that affecting the speech habits of a different (lower) class was sort of sinful, and that if one imitates the speech habits of those "beneath one's station", someone might think you were "one of them" and not some person who should rightfully be deferred to. I recall my mom showing a bit of this attitude when I was little, when she'd refuse to act as if she heard me until I said "May I have [whatever it was]" instead of "Can I have [whatever it was]". I recall another instance where a teacher had what could only be described as an apoplectic fit over some kid's use of the double-negative, so, yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilDrPuma Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster I fail to see what is wrong with a double negative other than that professional grammarians don't understand that they are used for emphasis and do not contradict each other. A good linguist bases his practices on the way people actually talk' date=' which is why the most famous linguist in popular fiction, Henry Higgins of [i']Pygmalion[/i] and My Fair Lady, had completely missed the point of his discipline. The double negative has always existed in English (as well as many other languages, of course). The prescriptivist grammarians of a couple of centuries back tried to unilaterially veto the structure based on its absence in Latin, whose grammar they deemed to be an ideal for English to follow. Prescriptivists since have tried hard to clamp down on the double negative, but the reality of the language continues to escape their attempts at artificial rulemongering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klytus Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster The double negative has always existed in English (as well as many other languages' date=' of course). The prescriptivist grammarians of a couple of centuries back tried to unilaterially veto the structure based on its absence in Latin, whose grammar they deemed to be an ideal for English to follow. Prescriptivists since have tried hard to clamp down on the double negative, but the reality of the language continues to escape their attempts at artificial rulemongering.[/quote'] Thus, demonstrating that even in real life, rulemongers are mostly good for pissing people off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Querysphinx Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster The double negative has always existed in English (as well as many other languages' date=' of course). The prescriptivist grammarians of a couple of centuries back tried to unilaterially veto the structure based on its absence in Latin, whose grammar they deemed to be an ideal for English to follow. Prescriptivists since have tried hard to clamp down on the double negative, but the reality of the language continues to escape their attempts at artificial rulemongering.[/quote'] In teaching English, I have learned that most people (or at least most of my students) do not actually consciously form sentences. They have a variety of, for lack of a better term, blurbs each of which has a certain connotative meanuing that is only loosely connected to its denotative meaning. When they talk, they just grab for a connotative meaning, grab a blurb in that area of the memory, and throw it out the door. When you ask them to analyze what they just said, or even to write it down, they literally can't do it, because language for them works at the blurb level. They're really not capable of expressing any idea that's more specific than, "dislike that," or ," not gonna do it," or ,"funny." It's an exercise in fuzzy linguistics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gillen Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster In teaching English, I have learned that most people (or at least most of my students) do not actually consciously form sentences. They have a variety of, for lack of a better term, blurbs each of which has a certain connotative meanuing that is only loosely connected to its denotative meaning. When they talk, they just grab for a connotative meaning, grab a blurb in that area of the memory, and throw it out the door. When you ask them to analyze what they just said, or even to write it down, they literally can't do it, because language for them works at the blurb level. They're really not capable of expressing any idea that's more specific than, "dislike that," or ," not gonna do it," or ,"funny." It's an exercise in fuzzy linguistics. That would explain many things, actually. Such as Sarah Palin. JG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster I recall another instance where a teacher had what could only be described as an apoplectic fit over some kid's use of the double-negative' date=' so, yeah.[/quote'] I said 'ain't no' in English class once. I thought the teacher's head was going to explode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gillen Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster I can't get no satisfaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZilla Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster In teaching English' date=' I have learned that most people (or at least most of my students) do not actually consciously form sentences. They have a variety of, for lack of a better term, blurbs each of which has a certain connotative meanuing that is only loosely connected to its denotative meaning. When they talk, they just grab for a connotative meaning, grab a blurb in that area of the memory, and throw it out the door. When you ask them to analyze what they just said, or even to write it down, they literally can't do it, because language for them works at the blurb level. They're really not capable of expressing any idea that's more specific than, "dislike that," or ," not gonna do it," or ,"funny."[/quote'] Like "Do not want"? It's an exercise in fuzzy linguistics. LOL-speak! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevelon Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster That would explain many things, actually. Such as Sarah Palin. JG A double negative is proof positive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster The prescriptivist grammarians of a couple of centuries back tried to unilaterially veto the structure based on its absence in Latin.... I find this extremely interesting, considering that Spanish (descended from Latin) throws double negatives around like peasants sowing grain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster I find this extremely interesting' date=' considering that Spanish (descended from Latin) throws double negatives around like peasants sowing grain.[/quote'] It would not be the first time that English Grammerians attempted to guide the formation of the language by making declarations that the way a large part of the English-speaking population is currently speaking is "wrong". English is driven from the grass-roots up, except when academia coins a new term from greek and latin roots. Various attempts have been made to influence the language from the "top down", but English-speakers are resistant to being told how to communicate unless it actually results in better communication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster It would not be the first time that English Grammerians attempted to guide the formation of the language by making declarations that the way a large part of the English-speaking population is currently speaking is "wrong". English is driven from the grass-roots up' date=' except when academia coins a new term from greek and latin roots. Various attempts have been made to influence the language from the "top down", but English-speakers are resistant to being told how to communicate unless it actually results in better communication.[/quote'] My pet peeve is "don't end a sentence with a preposition." Chaucer ended sentences with prepositions. Shakespeare ended sentences with prepositions. The editors of the King James Bible ended sentences with prepositions. no one could diddle the words like the Elizabethans, so if you want me to stop ending sentences with prepositions come up with more venerable examples of English than Shakespeare and The KJV Bible. bigbywolfe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Yeah, those mean old prescriptive grammarians, trying to tell us how to write sentences that other people can understand. The nerve of them! If you're Shakespeare, go ahead and split your infinitives and end your sentences with prepositions. Throw in some dialogue that uses double negatives for emphasis. Just remember that when you split the verb form from the "to," it makes it more difficult for readers to recognise that you're using an infinitive in the first place. A dangling preposition demands that readers go back over the sentence and find the referent. Double negatives can be read as negating the negation. Compare it to reading a French passage where the "que" in the "ne que" formulation gets buried, and you spend most of a sentence misparsing the "ne" as a negation. Ditto a German sentence where the writer has decided to bury the second half of the verb instead of putting it at the end of the sentence where it's supposed to be. And if those last sentences read like gibberish to you because you don't read French (or even if you do), consider the fate of the poor English-as-a-second-language reader trying to parse your freewheeling, prescriptive-grammar-be-damned prose. Shakespeare was writing poetry, not writing close analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Yeah, those mean old prescriptive grammarians, trying to tell us how to write sentences that other people can understand. The nerve of them! If you're Shakespeare, go ahead and split your infinitives and end your sentences with prepositions. Throw in some dialogue that uses double negatives for emphasis. Just remember that when you split the verb form from the "to," it makes it more difficult for readers to recognise that you're using an infinitive in the first place. A dangling preposition demands that readers go back over the sentence and find the referent. Double negatives can be read as negating the negation. Compare it to reading a French passage where the "que" in the "ne que" formulation gets buried, and you spend most of a sentence misparsing the "ne" as a negation. Ditto a German sentence where the writer has decided to bury the second half of the verb instead of putting it at the end of the sentence where it's supposed to be. And if those last sentences read like gibberish to you because you don't read French (or even if you do), consider the fate of the poor English-as-a-second-language reader trying to parse your freewheeling, prescriptive-grammar-be-damned prose. Shakespeare was writing poetry, not writing close analysis. I refuse to recast a sentence because "that's not how Julius Caesar would have said it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Re: Make Your Own Motivational Poster Et tu Brute? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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