Greatwyrm Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Common complaints Originally posted by Jerry A! Time aside, I've run across many players who are put off by having to create every aspect of a character (and I believe this is what Hero mostly gets panned on in reviews). To be honest, this is one of the aspects that kept me from getting into the HERO system for quite a while. Now, I'm a long-time D&D player. I'm used to having tons of stuff ready-made and ready to go out of the box. Maybe I'm lazy. Whatever. But it was nice to be able to take a stock item (class/monster/spell), make some minor modifications, and get pretty much whatever I needed as a DM. The more template based approach in 3e made that even easier. However, when the 3.5 news came out, I was not a happy camper. I'm still reserving judgment on the quality of the revision until I see it. The thing is, I have a very large collection of 3rd party material. I figured if I'm going to have to spend a great deal of time updating that to 3.5, I might as well update it to a system that has a little more "stability in the operating system" for lack of a better analogy. This brought me to GURPS, HERO, and Fuzion (yes, Fuzion). The somewhat thin support of Fuzion ruled it out pretty quickly. I like GURPS, but it just isn't cinematic enough in the basic rules. Plus, there is a good chance of a GURPS 4e in the next couple of years, leaving me with the same problem as 3e D&D vs. 3.5e D&D. So, I read up on the sample pdfs available on the company website. All of them. Several times. I've come to the conclusion this is probably the system I'm after. I guess what I'm trying to say, in far too many words, is that building everything from the ground up is a real barrier to entry for some people. It was the main one for me, until I was faced with doing it anyway for the system I was currently using. More books like the Fantasy Grimoire and the premade superpowers book I saw mentioned elsewhere could really go a long way to removing that barrier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TC Slyboots Posted February 14, 2003 Report Share Posted February 14, 2003 Something that I would like to point out too; why does it take so long to fight a battle in Champions? One can always simply reduce the number of special manuevers, modifiers, etc, but I would argue that even if a fight was nothing but 10d6 EBs and 50 STR punches that it would still take longer to run a Champion's battle than in most other RPGs. Why? In my experience, it's because of all of the role-playing that's being done during the battle. not just between battles. I have never played another system wherein role-playing was such an integral part of bash-and-smash. Special team codes, a 3 -dimensional battlefield, an environment in which anything can and probably will be used for offense, defense, or tactical advantage; all of these things contribute to communication amongst the players and interaction amongst the characters. Role-playing doesn't stop with battle, it simply changes in character... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted February 14, 2003 Report Share Posted February 14, 2003 Originally posted by TC Slyboots Something that I would like to point out too; why does it take so long to fight a battle in Champions? One can always simply reduce the number of special manuevers, modifiers, etc, but I would argue that even if a fight was nothing but 10d6 EBs and 50 STR punches that it would still take longer to run a Champion's battle than in most other RPGs. Why? In my experience, it's because of all of the role-playing that's being done during the battle. not just between battles. I have never played another system wherein role-playing was such an integral part of bash-and-smash. Special team codes, a 3 -dimensional battlefield, an environment in which anything can and probably will be used for offense, defense, or tactical advantage; all of these things contribute to communication amongst the players and interaction amongst the characters. Role-playing doesn't stop with battle, it simply changes in character... You raise some excellent points, and I much prefer the HERO method to the straight die rolls of AD&D. I have seen (and performed!) some incredible stunts in Champions that some so-called RPGs can't begin to approach. As a personal example: Many years ago I played a female ninja I cleverly called Spirit Ninja (In case I ever forgot what she was. ). During an underground battle against a flock (gaggle? bite? fang?) of vampires, my character was teleported by a mnd-controlled teammate to the top of a metal high-tension electrical tower, along with one of the vampire lords. She'd already seen her weaponry was rather ineffective against the undead, and the vampire smiled as he realized they were both 100 feet above the ground and he could fly. My character, as he well knew, couldn't fly. He uttered the usual words to the effect of "I have you now! Soon you'll be one of my slaves forever. Yadda yadda..." My character pulled her metal weighted chain (1" Stretching)and threw it around the vampires outstretched wrist, then replied "Not in this lifetime!" as she jumped off the tower and simultaneously looped the metal chain over the high voltage cables. She used her grappling hook to save herself from the fall. Afterwards the only identifiable pieces of the former undead were his melted bits of jewelry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry A! Posted February 14, 2003 Report Share Posted February 14, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Re: Common complaints Originally posted by Greatwyrm However, when the 3.5 news came out, I was not a happy camper. I'm still reserving judgment on the quality of the revision until I see it. The thing is, I have a very large collection of 3rd party material. I figured if I'm going to have to spend a great deal of time updating that to 3.5, I might as well update it to a system that has a little more "stability in the operating system" for lack of a better analogy. It may make you happy to know that 3.5 is supposed to remain compatible with 3e. It's mostly the combat stuff and monsters as characters stuff that's being cleaned up. Also some work on Prestige Classes. That being said, you should still stick with Hero. You'll be happier in the long run. I'm pretty sure that many will agree with me that it's the better system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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