How to build a Density-altering ATTACK?

[Haven Walkur]

My Hero character Cinnabar is a daughter of the Vision. Like him, she can control her own density (and there's a quick 'n' easy power for that), but unlike him, she can also affect the density of her opponents.

 

So please help me out here, all you bright boys and girls; how best to build this Density-altering attack power?

 

I'll decribe the different things I've been using to try and represent the Density-altering attack in italics. I'll underscore the problems I'm having with each approach, and I'll leave my questions in plain text.

 

I've been using 60 STR Telekinesis, Affects Whole Object, with the Limitation: Only to duplicate density effects, to represent the Density-altering attack power.

 

The problem is, an affected character can break out of TK using just raw STR...which seems anti-intuitive for a Density-altering attack.

 

Can anybody think of a way to build this Density-altering attack without using TK or another power with similar physical limitations?

 

Using multiple powers -- one to increase density, one to decrease -- would be fine, too. Apparently just using Density Increase, Usable as an Attack, is incredibly expensive...?

 

I've also tried using two Minor Transforms: Object into object too massive to move under own power/support own weight, both with the Partial advantage. One is a 6d6 attack, the other is 3d6, Uncontrolled, Continuous -- it's intended as a "fire and forget" power.

 

I like the idea of the Transforms -- especially the Uncontrolled, Continuous one -- but it seems that at 3d6 and 6d6, the Transforms are too small and hence too slow to take effect.... That means my character will use her power and her opponents will acquire the benefits of Density Increase (increased STR and PD/ED), increasing as the Transform progresses.

 

The bad guys won't become incapacitated until the Transforms are complete, and until then, my character will have a heap of new enemy bricks on her hands!

 

Can I even use Transform to immobilize the bad guys without giving them a STR boost in the meantime? Would taking the "Partial" advantage off the power and going for an "all-or-nothing" Transform -- with more dice, since Partial is a +1/2 advantage -- solve the problem?

 

Is there any way to get a progressive effect like Transform quickly, other than just upping the number of dice?

 

Would the "ultra-gravitate you until you can't move" Density-altering attack be better written up an an Entangle?

 

Thank-you for reading, and any help would be appreciated. This bloody power write-up is driving me nuts!

 

(Cross-posted to the Hero System Discussion forum)

[Southern Cross]

Re: How to build a Density-altering ATTACK?

 

If I remember,Steve Long suggested in 5ER that Density Increase bought as an attack would be best as an Entangle.

[Questar]

Re: How to build a Density-altering ATTACK?

 

A good SPD drain would have something of the effect you want without making your opponents more powerful. Of course, it would affect slower characters proportionately more than faster characters, which isn't quite right. Maybe a combo power SPD and STR drain. Not perfect, but closer than your TK attack, I think.

[garou]

Re: How to build a Density-altering ATTACK?

 

I was thinking a combo Spd and STR Drain, with maybe a DEX drain as well. Maybe the power has a -0 limitation (Can cause damage to local environment).

 

You might just go with a straight STR Drain - with the SFX being that the target is becoming too heavy to move.

[CraterMaker]

Re: How to build a Density-altering ATTACK?

 

Okay, let's reason from effect... every attack can be countered/overcome, so how do you envision people breaking away from your hi/lo density effects?

 

Really, if you wave your hand and the target gets too dense to move, they shouldn't be able to break out of it. That's a transform, so tighten your belt a couple of notches and buy it.

 

If it's a ray that she has to keep focused on the character - Hell, seems like transform to me to.

 

I'd just buy it as a transform and suck it up. 4d6 transform - 60 ap. Variable effect - increase and decrease mass +1/4. Partial Transform +1/2

Offset that with No range -1/2, restrainable (gotta touch w/ both hands) -1/2...

102 active, 52 real Buy a 6 speed, and in four seconds you can permanently alter a regular joe's mass untill it wears off. You'll probly be able to get a super in six seconds, eight at the max. Course, you're screwed if they got power defense - ah well.

 

want to do it quicker? Push a phase to give you back to back actions, or buy your speed up to seven or eight.

 

You do realize that this power as described (not as built, but as it should be modeled) is something of a .. one shot one kill power, I guess you could say, and I myself would be wary of a character trying to get it through..

I mean, how DO you defend against something like that but not be hit?

 

=CraterMaker

[Tarek]

Re: How to build a Density-altering ATTACK?

 

Why not a STR drain? The effect is that they become so dense that their muscles can't move them.

 

Otherwise, it's Density Increase, Usable on Others:usable as attack (+1), no STR Increase (+1/2). The 'no STR Increase' Limitation becomes an Advantage in this case. You'll have to buy Ranged (+1/2) if you want to use it at range.

Alternately, you could drop the "no STR increase" modifier and add a Linked Drain: STR.

 

You will also need to identify some common way to defend against it; Density Increase and Desolidification come to mind as ways to "cancel" the power. Also, breaking Line of Sight to the target would cancel the power as well.

 

Yes, it's expensive.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: How to build a Density-altering ATTACK?

 

The problem with any solution that does not actually change the density of the target (such as STR drain) is that it only affects the person being made more dense. It would not, for example, have a game effect on a teammate lifting him to safety.

 

I think what you have to do is decide the effect you want the power to have on the target. If you simply want the target to be less able to use their STR then perhaps a STR drain is the answer - and the SFX of that would be a massive increase in wieght. If you want to hinder movement then you might look to an Entangle - SFX, a massive increase in weight.

 

I think you are falling into the trap of thinking too much about the special effects you want rather than the game effects.

 

Doc

[Haven Walkur]

Re: How to build a Density-altering ATTACK?

 

My thanks to all the Hero mavens who offered assistance on this power-build problem. Some very good ideas and useful suggestions from the Hero Board, and Rep will be coming your way -- at the frustratingly slow rate of five awards per 24 hours -- in the near future.

 

Thanks again!