Genre Conventions 2: What is Cool?

[Robyn]

Re: Genre Conventions 2: What is Cool?

 

Sword was an OK read when I was 11' date=' but it hasn't really stood the test of time).[/quote']

 

I've never really understood that "test of time" thing . . . if I like something, I always will, I'm not going to torment myself aesthetically or ethically by replacing positive reactions with negative ones or becoming someone who would regret/hate who I've been.

 

I wonder how many people would still be mourning their "lost childhood" if they'd expanded their tastes without leaving behind what they once loved.

[Susano]

Re: Genre Conventions 2: What is Cool?

 

I've never really understood that "test of time" thing . . . if I like something' date=' I always will...[/quote']

 

I don't. I used to re-read Sword excessively. And some 10+ years later, I couldn't get past page 1. I'd read a lot, seen good writing and bad, and found Sword to be... bad.

 

Tastes change. I used to love DBZ... now I find it less interesting, especially since being exposed to a wider range of manga.

 

And so on.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Genre Conventions 2: What is Cool?

 

I've never really understood that "test of time" thing . . . if I like something, I always will, I'm not going to torment myself aesthetically or ethically by replacing positive reactions with negative ones or becoming someone who would regret/hate who I've been.

 

I wonder how many people would still be mourning their "lost childhood" if they'd expanded their tastes without leaving behind what they once loved.

 

*Shrug*

I's more a matter of experience and altered tastes. When I was 11, I read sword and thought it was a OK book. I recognized that the plot and characters were largely Tolkien re-hashes, but it was written in a bit more accessable style. I read the Silmarilion around the same time. I thought it was heavy, wordy, and slow.

Over the years I've come to appreciate the Silmarilion as a great peice of fictional Epic Prose, while my tolerance for Swords "LotR for the Complete Idiot" plagarisim elements has made it somewhat distasteful to me. I realize it was a first novel, and give him something of a pass, but I still lose a bit of respect for him becasue of the matter. He's built the foundation of his carrier by copying someone elses plot and characters with the serial numbers filed off. This is the sort of thing you get failing grades for in school. Note by my reccomendation... stil read some of his work.

 

By no means does this happen to everything.

For Instance: I make a point to reread Lloyd Alexanders Pyrdain series every 5 years or so. I still enjoy them as much as I did when I first read them, when I was 7. I plan on buying a boxed set for my nephew, and probably reading them to him before he's literate.

[tgrandjean]

Re: Genre Conventions 2: What is Cool?

 

And jumping in again re: 'test of time'....

I've more or less the same experience as everyone else. I read and enjoyed Shannara when I was around 13 or so and enjoyed it. For that matter, I also enjoyed Dragonlance at about the same time. A couple of years ago I picked up the same books and found them to be annoying. (Dragonlance in particular; crap!) OTOH I actually enjoy reading Weis and Hickman's later books. Their writing has improved noticibly. And OTOOH (right or left? whatever) Heinlein for me is an example of standing the test of time. I can pick up and reread his books at any time and still enjoy them. But still, that is very subjective. I know others who regard his books as trash.

 

Side note re Dragonlance: Ok, I do have to admit there are quite a few cool things in the books, but the writing quality was generally bad, there were important bits of story left out (that you would actually play through if you had the modules), and there were deus-ex's laying all over the place to direct the action; the ultimate example of lazy writing.

[starblaze]

Re: Genre Conventions 2: What is Cool?

 

I have varied tastes like many people. Sometimes I like Science Fiction and sometimes Fantasy. Hell, I recently discoverd Sue Grafton's alphabet mysteries and found them to be very entertaining, I also like K.K. Beck. My feeling is that as long you are enjoying what you are reading or watching or playing that is good for you and as long as you are having fun then everyone should leave you alone.

 

Case in point, many people liked Bladerunner and the whole cyberpunk genre. I have actually found it to be rather distasteful and depressing. Some people love this and hey good for them. I also remember as a teenager thinking the movie the Sword and the Sorceror was a really cool movie. I bought the DVD some years ago and found to rather third rate and lame. So taste change and vary. Sometimes what is cool to other people is either out of date or just doesn't carry over well.

 

Then there is the worse kind of player, the one who thinks he is clever and cool and is soooo not. One we had was a player who thought that calling his D&D Bard Generic Brand was clever. It just ended up making no sense.

[starblaze]

Re: Genre Conventions 2: What is Cool?

 

Oh, and as far as timelessness goes, Robert E. Howard has never ceased to excite and entertain.

[Lemurion]

Re: Genre Conventions 2: What is Cool?

 

As Starblaze said REH is cool. Lieber's Fafhrd and Mouser are cool. Batman done well is cool.

[Maelstrom]

Re: Genre Conventions 2: What is Cool?

 

Grace under pressure is cool.

Fighting when you know you'll lose, but need to buy time for your friends is cool.

Horatius was cool.

[Remjin]

Re: Genre Conventions 2: What is Cool?

 

As to "cool" - I think things that create a sense of awe or "I wish I could do that" are cool.

For example, in the movies "Equilibrium" and "Matrix" you get a sense of awe from the fight scenes.

However, cool or that sense of Awe can be overdone. In the later Matrix movies for example, the fight sequences get so over the top that it's no longer cool, but rather... "ooo, neat special effects."

I think cool takes the normal and moves it one step (but only one step) beyond.

 

I agree with you here completely... the same goes for kung fu movies that show fantastic sequences and improbable maneuvers... start flying around too much or shooting beams and such changes the movie for me. Either it noves into the mystical and becomes good in another way or it just sucks.

[Robyn]

Re: Genre Conventions 2: What is Cool?

 

Glancing over the variety of answers, I've come to realize that an understatement effect may be in play here. Quoting from the OP:

 

If just one player thinks something is cool, it may be unrelated to genre. But if most (or all) players think something is cool, it's safe to conclude that this is what your group thinks the genre is about.

 

The idea I was trying for here is that it's worthwhile to repeat the "This is cool." statements uttered by others, because it enables the GM to identify them as sentiments endorsed by the group, not just by one player.

 

Whereas thinking "It's been said." and that this is enough will understate the sentiment.

 

So, yes, I could use this thread (and other such questionnaires) to assemble a list of what sorts of things people find fun in each genre. But that's not what I'm after. I'm hoping for more of a poll/vote; particularly articulate people may want to express something themselves, even when described by previous replyers (repliers? people who replied?), but the important part is chiming in to say "Me too!" so you become part of a group (and the individuals who did express what they liked don't feel quite so lonely ).

[Enforcer84]

Re: Genre Conventions 2: What is Cool?

 

Big swords are cool

But So are rapiers.

Wit is cool.

good is cool.

Heroism and romance (as pointed out above) very cool.

[Savinien]

Re: Genre Conventions 2: What is Cool?

 

Big swords are cool

But So are rapiers.

Wit is cool.

good is cool.

Heroism and romance (as pointed out above) very cool.

 

So... What you're saying is that Savinien is the coolest of them all. Am I right?

 

Eh? Come on...

 

You don't have to say anything just nod your head a bit.

[Vondy]

Re: Genre Conventions 2: What is Cool?

 

Cool: Morpheous' Leather Trenchcoat.

 

Not Cool: Trenchcoat Mafia.

 

Translation: Its only cool if you can bring it off.