Modern Magic setting...opinions needed

[Stone]

I am putting together a modern magic setting and I don't want magic available to anyone who learns how to speak the words (within reason). Therefore I come up w/the following talents that are required for anyone wishing to play a magically inclined character:

 

no magic - 0 pts, spell ap's cannot exceed 5 pts

low magic - 5 pts, spell ap's cannot exceed 15 pts

mage - 10 pts, spell ap's cannot exceed 30 pts

high magic - 15 pts, spell ap's cannot exceed 45 pts

 

This is based on a 150 pt character. Do these requirements seem resonable?

[Kabluey]

Re: Modern Magic setting...opinions needed

 

I think it would depend a great deal on the magic system itself. If spells are quite useful, then 15 points seems low to me, even for 45 AP's. And then, of course, there are other factors that might influence how cheap/expensive it is - skills, points for spells, characteristic requirements, etc. So possibly when you factor in the cost of the whole system, 15 points might turn out to be quite expensive. Just hard to say without knowing more.

[Markdoc]

Re: Modern Magic setting...opinions needed

 

Without that info, however, it seems reasonable - I'm assuming that characters still haveto pay for their magic. 15 points for a talent (I'd call it a perk, personally) is not too high if magic is very rare - it means for example that normal places like (say) a police station or a bank are not going to have precautions against infiltrators who can fly, turn invisible or walk through walls - and you can do any of those for 45 points.

 

Likewise, most people won't have mental Defence or Power Defence and no judge is going to buy the story that someone acted under the influence of mind control, etc etc.

 

so, it seems about right.

 

cheers, Mark

[StGrimblefig]

Re: Modern Magic setting...opinions needed

 

There is one thing that bothers me in this: This statement

... I don't want magic available to anyone who learns how to speak the words (within reason).

Does not seem to agree with :

no magic - 0 pts' date=' spell ap's cannot exceed 5 pts[/quote']

If I am reading this correctly, anyone can cast spells up to 5AP with no expenditure for the talent. Note that there is a lot of things that can be done with 5AP: Create enough light to read by, zap someone with a 1d6 EB, enhance your senses, put up a 5pt force field, add an extra limb, ... you get the idea. Granted, these things are limited to the base powers, since adding any advantages would put them over 5AP, but these things would be a radical change to a "modern world."

 

I would say that "no magic" should mean "no magic" -- if you do not spend any points for the talent, you do not get to do any magic at all. That ensures that anyone that can cast spells has spent points for the privilege.

 

(note that I used HERO Designer to reference the costs)

[Stone]

Re: Modern Magic setting...opinions needed

 

I have never really used the Hero system for much more than Champions. I do have Shadowrun variant I run, but I'm pretty open w/the magic system. I'm in the process of going through the Grimoire right now. I'm not a fan of require componets for spells, but if someone to use them as a limitation I have no problem w/that.

 

The setting will have a ruling council that enforces the "laws" for magic. Magic is very rare in the world. StGrimblefig is right. I need to revamp the no magic. Originally I was wanting some minor spells to be available to normals if they had some way to learn to say the right words, but after thinking it over I am going to do away w/that.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Modern Magic setting...opinions needed

 

Two thoughts of this subject: it sounds like you're trying to make magic a sort of Power Framework, like a low-level VPP. Obviously, unless you buy the pool you cannot do magic. The "spells" would then be accessed by using a Skill roll representing the specific type of magic required.

 

One possible feature of the setting that would be interesting to model is Magical Blindness, which is a feature many mundane characters would possess. If someone is Magically Blind, they cannot see, understand or be affected by magic in any way. No spell cast on them will affect them directly, although you can hurt them with magic indirectly (if a Magically Blind character is standing on a ledge and you cast a spell that breaks the ledge, he'll still fall -- it's gravity, not magic, that's causing that). Of course, a magically Blind character will never realize he is, because he is convinced that magic doesn't exist -- and how could you be blind to something that doesn't exist anyway?

[Chiba Bob]

Re: Modern Magic setting...opinions needed

 

I think before you work on game mechanics you should have a rational for magic in a modern world based campaign. The rational would dictate game mechanics. To throw you a bone, I was working on a Skill Based modern magic system at one time which I could plug into any modern campaign at the drop of a hat and this is the basic rational I developed for it….

 

MODERNISTIC MAGIC

According to quantum theory and metaphysics, what we define as reality and the natural world is a matter of perception and conventional belief. That reality is shaped by the collective consciousness of those who perceive it. The basic animalistic natural of the human mind is hardwired to accept what it perceives in the natural world as something concrete and immutable. Moreover, the human mind, is so attached to what is known as reality, that can be literally blind to new phenomena beyond its ability to realize. The skeptic believes that “Seeing Is Believing,” but this is not necessarily the case because the a truly skeptical mind would be truly unable to perceive any supernatural phenomena because their mind could not process the experience. To the modern skeptical mind, magic is beyond the realm of possibility, it is just plain superstition and myth and they hold in contempt any who still believe in such nonsense.

In the modern age, the rational for magic, is that reality can be altered at its quantum level by the mind of the true believer. The ability to unlock and reshape reality from the accepted convention is a tricky thing because reality is held together by the human collective consciousness which generates a kind of reality inertia. To perform modern magic, is to alter reality itself, by it’s nature requires overcoming one’s own personal skepticism as well as the skepticism of the spectators. As a result, most modern magic is usually attempted in privacy or among small groups of true believers where inertia levels are lower. This is why magic is not something that appears on the news or reality television because the potential inertia generated by such a large potential audience would almost certainly always cause any attempt of magic to fail completely. Thus, in a modern age setting, magic is something that it even more secret and even more mysterious that in a fantasy setting.

[CraterMaker]

Re: Modern Magic setting...opinions needed

 

Take a look at The Gift magic system in the Fantasy Hero Sourcebook.. I've been thinking of adapting it to a modern magic game, it's pretty cool.

 

Basically - 5 pt perk gives you a 25 pt VPP - You don't spend points on spells, you find them/ create them, with a magic roll at penalty you can boost/reduce the effects..

 

With a minor mod or two, could be just what you're looking for

 

-CraterMaker

[Stone]

Re: Modern Magic setting...opinions needed

 

Take a look at The Gift magic system in the Fantasy Hero Sourcebook.. I've been thinking of adapting it to a modern magic game, it's pretty cool.

 

Basically - 5 pt perk gives you a 25 pt VPP - You don't spend points on spells, you find them/ create them, with a magic roll at penalty you can boost/reduce the effects..

 

With a minor mod or two, could be just what you're looking for

 

-CraterMaker

 

Sweet! Thanks

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Modern Magic setting...opinions needed

 

One possible feature of the setting that would be interesting to model is Magical Blindness' date=' which is a feature many mundane characters would possess. If someone is Magically Blind, they cannot see, understand or be affected by magic in any way. No spell cast on them will affect them directly, although you can hurt them with magic indirectly (if a Magically Blind character is standing on a ledge and you cast a spell that breaks the ledge, he'll still fall -- it's [i']gravity[/i], not magic, that's causing that). Of course, a magically Blind character will never realize he is, because he is convinced that magic doesn't exist -- and how could you be blind to something that doesn't exist anyway?

 

This is something that my friends & I agree on, citing it as the natural law of the universe and the current swing of the collective subconcious. Since not enough people believe in magic, only people who a) study, understand and c) believe in it are affected. This same principle is used through Mage: The Ascension in that anyone who uses "vulgar" magic creates a Paradox in the world; enough Paradox (literally, people's collective subconcious reporting to the universe: "HEY! That ain't right!") and the universe comes after you, twelve kinds of ticked off.

 

However, being a writer of modern fantasy/horror myself, the truth is there's a ton of directions you can go. I agree with the Saint - no means no. No magic is no magic; 5 points in HERO will accomplish something; might not seem like much, but it will accomplish something. What kind of magic system are you looking to build?

 

The VPP, think of it and do it kind?

The structured word combination kind that builds specific spells but all spells require the knowledge, the skill roll and Incantations?

Clearly you're not going for wave the magic wand kind.

 

So before we even get into points, can you give a full description of what you want magic to be able to do?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Modern Magic setting...opinions needed

 

Apologies & rep to Chiba, whom I appear to have repeated.