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Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion


Thia Halmades

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This post has been revamped from its original form. As you're all aware, all spells included are compatible with Killer Shrike's Vancian Magic System, however they require the following changes:

 

* Remove the Limitation "Spell (School, -1/2)"

* Remove the Limitation "Requires A [school] Roll (-1/2)"

 

Generally all spells were adapted wholesale from the d20 system with an eye for putting them in as neatly-fitting-as-possible boxes. For quick reference, 1st level magic is "Base 30" and edges up to 37; add 15 points for each spell level thereafter. Every effort was made to make the spell fit into this categorization, however, if you see one that is 112 points in a 75 point group (for instance) this is not an error. The spells were adapted directly with minimal consideration towards "forcing" them, hence, the cause exists on the d20 side -- the need to recreate all possible effects, and not on the HERO side.

 

Second, many spells have multiple variations; Glitterdust, Confusion & Geas just to name a few. This is because I felt it was important to include not just my version, but other possible variants brought up by other posters.

 

I'd also like to take this time to thank Hyper-Man, who is just as deserving of credit on this project at this point as I am. Every time I've gotten stuck, he's had an answer. I may not always agree with a brother, but more importantly he has been an ever constant source of power balancing and assisting me in achieving the appropriate effect. Please rep him at your next earliest opportunity.

 

Special thanks too those who continue to assist with this project; at this time, ALL spell lists will be posted as "close to the top" as I can get them (within my own posts). This is to save space as I have two major projects, this one, and HERO: Combat Evolved which uses fairly intense character files as well. Maybe I should ask Simon to bump my total alloted space? :think:

 

This post was written March 29th; at this time, all new files will be uploaded to HERO Designer, to save space here on the boards and my own alloted space. I will leave these 4 levels up and as long as I have the space, add the rest, but when HERO: Combat Evolved starts to take over again, I'll be taking these down. However, they are officially publicly available and will remain so for quite some time. :D

 

I would also again like to put a giant Grateful Sheep (a "thank ewe") to Hyper-Man for suggesting I put 'em up there. Makes everyone's lives easier.

 

April 12th: 1st - 5th level Sor/Wiz magic is now up on the HERO Designer forum.

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

I'll check these out and let you know if I use any in our Eberron Hero game at Hero Central.

 

Thanks for sharing your hard work. One of my teensy wheensy gripes with the Vancian Magic at KS's site is trying to put all that info into HD!

 

 

Thanks, again!

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

I'll check these out and let you know if I use any in our Eberron Hero game at Hero Central.

 

Thanks for sharing your hard work. One of my teensy wheensy gripes with the Vancian Magic at KS's site is trying to put all that info into HD!

 

 

Thanks, again!

 

I have all that info in HD, except Transmutation (the file got corrupted). However, they need to be edited a bit and some of the newer rules intelligence additions cause popups and need to be addressed.

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

I'll check these out and let you know if I use any in our Eberron Hero game at Hero Central.

 

Thanks for sharing your hard work. One of my teensy wheensy gripes with the Vancian Magic at KS's site is trying to put all that info into HD!

 

 

Thanks, again!

 

It's my pleasure! 2nd Level magic, again, isn't always going to neatly fit into 45 AP (Arcane Lock, to do what I wanted, clocked in at 60 and I'm not even sure it's "right," but hey, that's why I'm doing it). But the point of the project is to do it and have it work, so again, thanks for the thanks!

 

Mmm. Abjuration...

 

April 12th: 5th Level Sor/Wiz magic added to this post for those who (for whatever reason) don't have access to HERO Designer but can still use the prefab.

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

When I went thru and did it, if I could make a Spell fit at a particular "level" by tweaking then I did, but if I couldn't reasonably do it then it just became a higher level Spell. Its well known that the level assignments are pretty arbitrary in D&D, and some spells are more or less powerful than other spells of the same level. The HERO System's point build does a good job of identifying such spells; even WotC adjusted some spell levels between 3 and 3.5 as I recall.

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

That's definitely one of the things I was planning to ask you about, but not before I was done doing the original core conversion. For example, Obscure Object is only 30 or so points, IIRC (I just did it and it already flew out of my head). I do have one question that you might be able to answer.

 

Melf's Acid Arrows: Continuing Charge? Lingering? Indirect (Acid?) The last one was more a personal thought, as "Acid" as an SFX doesn't seem to do much, but again, that's an outside thought not necessarily germane to the core discussion. How would you model the "continual burn" of Acid Arrow? I'm temporarily settled on a properly defined Lingering, as the spell is an Instant, one Charge represents the casting, and it doesn't have a "duration."

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Generic thought for y'all: If you're doing a "pure" conversion, you'll probably want to knock down my RSR -1/2 to an RSR -1/4. That will have the following immediate effect:

 

1st Level/30 AP magic: -1, generally (some will hit -2).

2nd Level/45 AP magic: -2/-3

3rd Level/60 AP magic: -3/-4

4th Level/75 AP magic: -4/-5

5th Level/90 AP magic: -4/-5

6th Level/105 AP magic: -5

7th Level/120 AP magic: -6

8th Level/135 AP magic: -7

9th Level/150 AP magic: -7/-8 (and up)

 

Many people may find this a much smoother curve, and it will allow your caster players to learn more magic and cast it more consistently. It's all about feel and, as KS pointed out so clearly in a recent post, control factors. His system, as I said, doesn't make use of RSR. Personally, I'm a big proponent of it. I would go so far as to later consider "additional effects" for great rolls (basically magical critical skill rolls). But that's more a flavor thing. As KS once asked, "What's wrong with something simply working all the time?" Absolutely zip, so I wanted to throw out the comparative so y'all could see it (obviously, with the current RSR, 9th level magic is a -15 (at least) to cast, which means your PC will need a skill level of around 30 to cast it consistently.

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Y'all can let me know if this is legal. I think I'm doing something wrong -- and don't mind the "one hex" AOE -- for some reason HDv3 isn't letting me double it. Dammit.

 

Glitterdust [Conjuration]: (Total: 46 Active Cost, 9 Real Cost) Detect Invisible or Hidden Characters 14- (Sight Group), Ranged (+1/2), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Usable As Attack (Glitterdust allows characters to Percieve Invisible or otherwise Hidden Characters in the Area of Effect; +1) (24 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/4), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Ground Micah; -1), Spell (Conjuration; -1/2), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 5) plus Sight Group Flash 3d6, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2) (22 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), OAF (Ground micah; -1), Linked (Glitterdust [Conjuration]; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4), Spell (Conjuration; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 4)

 

I'm still (personally) unclear as to how to handle PLUS powers, and where all the limitations go (which must go on both, when it's double dipping, etc.) Here's the SFX:

 

Glitterdust comes down and makes everything it hits detectable -- this is why I used Detect, Usable as Attack since it's revealing a target's location for the benefit of anyone who can see it. That seemed worth +1 to me. Then, I Linked in Sight Flash 3d6 (because that's what fit) with all various lims as you see them. Usually I'm pretty good about these things, but this one threw me. So before I came crying going "Mommy, I can't do it!" I wanted to post what I think will work.

 

Please review and lemme know your thoughts, peeps.

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Here's a cleanup of your build and an alternate version using Suppress instead of Detect.

 

9 Glitterdust [Conjuration]: (Total: 48 Active Cost, 9 Real Cost) Detect Invisible or Hidden Characters A Class Of Things 14- (Sight Group), Usable Simultaneously (up to 8 people at once; Glitterdust allows "other" characters to Percieve Invisible or otherwise Hidden Characters in the Area of Effect; +1), Area Of Effect (4" Radius; +1 1/4) (26 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/4), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Ground Micah; -1), Spell (Conjuration; -1/2), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 5) plus Sight Group Flash 3d6, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2) (22 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Linked (Detect Invisible or Hidden Characters; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4), OIF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Ground micah; -1/2), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 4) - END=[1 cc]

 

21 Glitterdust [Conjuration] alternate: (Total: 109 Active Cost, 21 Real Cost) Suppress Invisibility 10d6 (standard effect: 30 points), Area Of Effect (2" radius; +3/4) (87 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/4), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Ground micah; -1), Spell (-1/2), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 18) plus Sight Group Flash 3d6, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2) (22 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Ground micah; -1), Linked (Suppress Invisibility; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 3) - END=[1 cc]

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Usable As Attack doesn't really do anything for a Detect or any other sensory power. What you're really 'attacking' is the Invisibility power. Using Suppress against this means that a more powerful Invisibility (that might have the Difficult to Dispell Advantage) will be harder to affect. A Detect based approach doesn't allow for this option.

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Y'all can let me know if this is legal. I think I'm doing something wrong -- and don't mind the "one hex" AOE -- for some reason HDv3 isn't letting me double it. Dammit.

 

Glitterdust [Conjuration]: (Total: 46 Active Cost, 9 Real Cost) Detect Invisible or Hidden Characters 14- (Sight Group), Ranged (+1/2), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Usable As Attack (Glitterdust allows characters to Percieve Invisible or otherwise Hidden Characters in the Area of Effect; +1) (24 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/4), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Ground Micah; -1), Spell (Conjuration; -1/2), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 5) plus Sight Group Flash 3d6, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2) (22 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), OAF (Ground micah; -1), Linked (Glitterdust [Conjuration]; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4), Spell (Conjuration; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 4)

 

I'm still (personally) unclear as to how to handle PLUS powers, and where all the limitations go (which must go on both, when it's double dipping, etc.) Here's the SFX:

 

Glitterdust comes down and makes everything it hits detectable -- this is why I used Detect, Usable as Attack since it's revealing a target's location for the benefit of anyone who can see it. That seemed worth +1 to me. Then, I Linked in Sight Flash 3d6 (because that's what fit) with all various lims as you see them. Usually I'm pretty good about these things, but this one threw me. So before I came crying going "Mommy, I can't do it!" I wanted to post what I think will work.

 

Please review and lemme know your thoughts, peeps.

 

 

With all due respect, I don't think its a vaild power construction. You should really use and Adjustment power to make a invisable person visable to all. link it with Change Enviorment that gives bonuses to normal sight preception rolls to find hidden characters.

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Although, to be fair, i also think that your second build is more Accurate. Mehr. I just can't properly pay for the suppress, which would make this a ... 5th level spell? Which it might be, but I'm tring to keep it within the guidelines in this particular case.

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

With all due respect' date=' I don't think its a vaild power construction. You should really use and Adjustment power to make a invisable person visable to all. link it with Change Enviorment that gives bonuses to normal sight preception rolls to find hidden characters.[/quote']

 

Fun fact: I tried to do this already, but HDv3 doesn't allow for the addition of +PER rolls -- it's a GM Option power, and not something that CE does naturally. I considered just "building" CE as a power to do this on my own, but I wasn't convinced it was the best way to do it. This is one of the more obnoxious spells I've come across.

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

a few more thoughts to consider...

 

Detect built as part of the Sight Group wouldn't actually work against Invisibility vs. Sight. It would actually need to be based on a sense group not affected by the Invisibility. edit.. also Detect by itself is not a Targeting sense.

 

Continuing Charge 1 Turn in HERO (12 seconds) seems a bit quick since I believe a Turn in DnD is a bit longer (1 minute?) unless that has also changed.

 

Here's another alternative to Detect:

 

40 I Can See Invisible People!: Spatial Awareness (Unusual Group), *Range, Usable Simultaneously (up to 8 people at once; +1), Area Of Effect (5" Radius; +1) (81 Active Points); Limited Power Only vs. Invisibile targets (magical based Invisibility and/or Images) (-1) - END=0

 

* Note, the "Range" portion of Spatial Awareness is a part of that power that must be purchased when SpAw is not built as part of a normally 'ranged' sense group like sight or hearing. It is not the same as the Ranged Advantage

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

That's definitely one of the things I was planning to ask you about' date=' but not before I was done doing the original core conversion. For example, [i']Obscure Object [/i]is only 30 or so points, IIRC (I just did it and it already flew out of my head). I do have one question that you might be able to answer.

 

Melf's Acid Arrows: Continuing Charge? Lingering? Indirect (Acid?) The last one was more a personal thought, as "Acid" as an SFX doesn't seem to do much, but again, that's an outside thought not necessarily germane to the core discussion. How would you model the "continual burn" of Acid Arrow? I'm temporarily settled on a properly defined Lingering, as the spell is an Instant, one Charge represents the casting, and it doesn't have a "duration."

Continuous Uncontrolled on a Continuous Charge.

Melfs Acid Arrow

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

I don't know how expensive this will be' date=' but could you do the 'let people see invisible' bit with a combination of (a) Images (sparkly bits), and (B) Detect, only to know where to put the Images?[/quote']

 

Maybe, but it would get expensive.

 

1. Detect at it's base only lets you know that something is nearby. It does not automatically include Targeting. That would be an additional 20 active points to the base ability, or essentially the same build as Spatial Awareness.

 

2. The +/- PER component of Images is difficult to incorporate. Invisibility in HERO is all or nothing. Even if Images are used to create an outline of where an "invisible" target is it could be argued that the Invibility power cancels this out the same way that it cancels other background effects.

 

If the sfx is to cover the invisible target with a substance that can't be made invisible (and then as a result making the target visible) then adjustment powers (Drain or Suppress) are probably the most accurate way to go.

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

The one down side of hero system is that a seemingly simple effect can be prohibitvly exspensive and complicated

 

Sometimes this is true, other times if you ponder the why's it turns out that the "simple" effect has hidden fallout, or ties into something the system places a high value on.

 

One of the main areas where a "simple" effect becomes very expensive is when you take something instant and make it constant because the system puts a large premium on action economy and power activation.

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

I thought I saw a question asking about Spell Duration -- generally, when a spell has a duration of "1 round/+1 lvl" I've used 1 Turn to represent that. HDv3 isn't granular enough (or I'm just not editing enough) to adjust the total turns. 1 Turn in HERO is about 3 rounds of d20 combat.

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Fun fact: I finished modeling Flaming Sphere. It took me a little over 45 minutes, maybe an hour. I wasted some time working out a Summon for it, when it isn't a summon at all. It's really this:

 

Flaming Sphere: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, Lingering up to 1 Turn (+1/2), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Mobile (+1) (90 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/2), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; A bit of tallow, a pinch of brimstone, a dusting of powdered iron; -1), Spell (Evocation; -1/2), Requires An Evocation Roll (-1/2), Limited Power (Moving the Flaming Sphere requires a Half Phase (but does not count as an attack action); -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4)

 

It flat out doesn't fit into my vision of 2nd level, much less Killer Shrike's paradigm. This is because the SFX is merely a rolling ball -- it's really an AOE Mobile. Which is extremely expensive. If I put it down to 1d6 RKA, it loses whatever cajones it might have had. At 2d6 (where it is now) it's a 4th level spell. :ugly:

 

So it'll be in the list becuase I'm a completist and I want it in the list, similarly to what I said before. But if you see it, it ain't you. It ain't me. That's just the way it is. Other note while I'm here and thinking about it.

 

The 2nd Level spell Darkness isn't really Darkness at all; I completely revised it to match its intent with its mechanics. It's now called Shroud and incurs a -4 OCV penalty on any standing in it or looking through it. Much neater.

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Flaming Sphere: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, Lingering up to 1 Turn (+1/2), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Mobile (+1) (90 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/2), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; A bit of tallow, a pinch of brimstone, a dusting of powdered iron; -1), Spell (Evocation; -1/2), Requires An Evocation Roll (-1/2), Limited Power (Moving the Flaming Sphere requires a Half Phase (but does not count as an attack action); -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4)

 

It flat out doesn't fit into my vision of 2nd level, much less Killer Shrike's paradigm. This is because the SFX is merely a rolling ball -- it's really an AOE Mobile.

 

Does it need to be AoE? The spell grants a reflect save to avoid all damage, which sounds to me like the Sphere needs to hit the target with normal DCV applicable. The target need only reposition himself (take a 5' step) for the Sphere to need to chase after him, so it needs to be retargeted each phase. Would this work?

 

Flaming Sphere: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, Trigger - 2 conditions (+1/2) - Character concentrates or Target enters or is physically in Sphere's hex (the hex where the last target was attacked); Trigger resets automatically(+1/2); No Range Modifier (+1/2) - AP 75; All limitations are the same, except remove Limited Power and add Limited Range (the power cannot be used on anyone more than 6" away from its last target; -1/4) and Limited Power (requires 1/2 phase to retarget; -1/4).

 

I cast the spell and the Spehere appears and rolls to where I targeted it. Since the target is in its hex, the sphere "attacks" my target, with a normal to hit roll (replacing the reflex save) a no range penalty (since the save doesn't get easier if you're further away). The trigger resets, if another target walks into the hex, he triggers the RKA and may bump into the sphere (to hit roll), after which the trigger again resets.

 

On my next phase, I can re-set the trigger - the Sphere rolls up to 6" by concentrating on it for a 1/2 phase (ie I attack someone within 6" of my last target). The target stops the sphere, and the Trigger goes off, attacking that target. It resets, so anyone entering the hex before my next phase gets attacked as well.

 

After a turn, the charge wears off, so no more Trigger and no more RKA.

 

EDIT: Still 75 AP

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Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

WOW. That isn't anything I think I would have thought of. I'm really glad I posted that. Thanks, Hugh! Have some rep!* I will use that model, make some changes and include credit in the Notes. Which reminds me, I need to credit HyperMan for his help with Glitterdust as well.

 

While we're on the subject, the following spell has been changed:

 

Cause Fear [Necromancy]: Mind Control 7d6 (Human class of minds) (35 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Requires A Necromancy Roll (-1/2), Spell (Necromancy; -1/2), Set Effect (Only to Make Target Run Away as Fast as Possible; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4), Normal Range (-1/4), Limited Range (Close (Maximum of 10"); -1/4)

 

I'm not going to post a "new" version of 1st Level Wizard until I'm through everything else, but this build is closer to the one in the text and makes more sense. It's also a little easier to get the effect (I sneaked the dice up to 7).

 

*DING! You have a gained a level! Welcome to 300!

*You have gained faction with HERO BOARD LORDS

*You have lost faction with Wizards of the Coast

*You have lost faction with Gary Gygax

*Gary Gygax stares at you threateningly, ready to attack!

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