Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Hrm. I redrafted it, and while your build is good, I think your math is off. Reason being:

 

Trigger is a +1/2, with two conditions and two penalties on it. However, No Range, the next +1/2, will push 2d6 into 60 AP, not 45. I'm still stuck in the same position I was in before, it seems. Not that the build isn't excellent -- but I can't generate the effect without the dice getting kicked while they're down.

 

Currently, using Trigger, but not No Range Modifier (which by rights SHOULD be on there), although you can argue that the Sphere has no intelligence, but that's something else... anyway, using that, I'm here:

 

Flaming Sphere [Evocation]: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6-1, Lingering up to 1 Turn (+1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Two activation conditions apply simultaneously, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger, Trigger can expire (it has a time limit); Character concentrates or Target enters or is physically in Sphere's hex; the hex where the last target was attacked; +1/2) (50 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/2), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; A bit of tallow, a pinch of brimstone, a dusting of powdered iron; -1), Spell (Evocation; -1/2), Requires An Evocation Roll (-1/2), Limited Mobility (Next Attack Must be Within 6" of Last Attack; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Limited Range (Medium, Maximum of 25"; -1/4)

 

Problem being, of course, that Lingering is still required in order to keep the Sphere active; otherwise there's nothing keeping the duration going and it pops out of existence, by rule. Thoughts?

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Here's my take, Glitterdust is actually a fairly simple spell (agreeing with Shrike), but the trick is that Invisibility can't affect it.

 

Glitterdust:

Minor Transformation: 1D6 Transform "dust" into "Glitterdust" (10 Base Points), Area Effect (+1), Increased Area x4, (+1/2).

 

This scatters a larger area with glowing sticky dust which can't be rendered invisible which causes the target to have a "bright fringe" until the dust is burned off, dispelled, or otherwise removed. Glitterdust reverts back to normal in only a few minutes. A creature covered in Glitterdust has up to -2 OCV penalities removed (-1 per 5 base points).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Flaming Sphere [Evocation]: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6-1, Lingering up to 1 Turn (+1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Two activation conditions apply simultaneously, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger, Trigger can expire (it has a time limit); Character concentrates or Target enters or is physically in Sphere's hex; the hex where the last target was attacked; +1/2) (50 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/2), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; A bit of tallow, a pinch of brimstone, a dusting of powdered iron; -1), Spell (Evocation; -1/2), Requires An Evocation Roll (-1/2), Limited Mobility (Next Attack Must be Within 6" of Last Attack; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Limited Range (Medium, Maximum of 25"; -1/4)

 

Problem being, of course, that Lingering is still required in order to keep the Sphere active; otherwise there's nothing keeping the duration going and it pops out of existence, by rule. Thoughts?

 

I would phrase as:

 

Flaming Sphere [Evocation]: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6-1, Trigger [+1/4](Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates [+1/2], Two activation conditions apply simultaneously [+1/4], total advantage +1; Character concentrates or Target enters or is physically in Sphere's hex; the hex where the last target was attacked

 

Lingering is not needed - the power lasts a full turn once cast due to the continuing charge and the Trigger is self-resetting. It's available throughout. The character controls the personal activation trigger ("concentrates" for a 0 phase action) and the Trigger expires due to the duration of the charge, not a limit on the Trigger.

 

I suppose you could apply the 1/2 phase requirement for Concentrate to reduce the Trigger advantage by 1/4, and also apply the time limit of 1 turn to the Trigger, for a net advantage of +1/2. That would make room for No Range Modifier.

[AlHazred]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Hmmm... This is all excellent discussion. I feel the need to weigh in.

 

Glitterdust: "A cloud of golden particles covers everyone and everything in the area, causing creatures to become blinded and visibly outlining invisible things for the duration of the spell. All within the area are covered by the dust, which cannot be removed and continues to sparkle until it fades. Any creature covered by the dust takes a -40 penalty on Hide checks." It has a duration of 1 round per level.

 

It doesn't nullify invisibility, just outlines invisible things. You can't use it to make out details of what the invisible thing is. If there are no invisible things in the area of effect, it just blinds people for a short while. It's not an Adjustment power at all -- it's basically just an Images, Usable As Attack power:

 

Glitterdust: (Total: 60 Active Cost, 12 Real Cost) Sight Group Flash 1d6, Area Of Effect (2" Radius; +1 1/4) (11 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain; Ground Mica; -1), Spell (Conjuration; -1/2), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 2) plus Sight Group Images Increased Size (2" radius; +1/4), +4 to PER Rolls, Usable As Attack (+1) (49 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/4), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain; Ground Mica; -1), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Spell (Conjuration; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 10)

 

You can season this one to taste - personally, I think it's probably better at 3d6 or so Flash.

 

And I'd say don't worry so much about the active points. If a first level spell comes out to 90 points, so what? The player should only worry about the effects, not the points -- so just make it a first level spell that happens to clock in at 90 AP.

 

EDIT - You should put a Linked in there on the Images as well.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

I would phrase as:

 

Flaming Sphere [Evocation]: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6-1, Trigger [+1/4](Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates [+1/2], Two activation conditions apply simultaneously [+1/4], total advantage +1; Character concentrates or Target enters or is physically in Sphere's hex; the hex where the last target was attacked

 

Lingering is not needed - the power lasts a full turn once cast due to the continuing charge and the Trigger is self-resetting. It's available throughout. The character controls the personal activation trigger ("concentrates" for a 0 phase action) and the Trigger expires due to the duration of the charge, not a limit on the Trigger.

 

I suppose you could apply the 1/2 phase requirement for Concentrate to reduce the Trigger advantage by 1/4, and also apply the time limit of 1 turn to the Trigger, for a net advantage of +1/2. That would make room for No Range Modifier.

 

Not quite. Assuming Hero Designer isn't wrong, RKA is an Instant; as such, it cannot receive a Continuing Charge. You have to purchase Lingering in order to have the Charge be Continuous. That's the core problem. So my current version (such as it is) looks like deese:

 

Flaming Sphere [Evocation]: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6-1, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Two activation conditions apply simultaneously, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger, Trigger can expire (it has a time limit); Character concentrates or Target enters or is physically in Sphere's hex; the hex where the last target was attacked; +1/2), Lingering up to 1 Turn (+1/2) (50 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/2), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; A bit of tallow, a pinch of brimstone, a dusting of powdered iron; -1), Spell (Evocation; -1/2), Requires An Evocation Roll (-1/2), Limited Mobility (Next Attack Must be Within 6" of Last Attack; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Limited Range (Medium, Maximum of 25"; -1/4)

 

Thoughts?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Hmmm... This is all excellent discussion. I feel the need to weigh in.

 

Glitterdust: "A cloud of golden particles covers everyone and everything in the area, causing creatures to become blinded and visibly outlining invisible things for the duration of the spell. All within the area are covered by the dust, which cannot be removed and continues to sparkle until it fades. Any creature covered by the dust takes a -40 penalty on Hide checks." It has a duration of 1 round per level.

 

It doesn't nullify invisibility, just outlines invisible things. You can't use it to make out details of what the invisible thing is. If there are no invisible things in the area of effect, it just blinds people for a short while. It's not an Adjustment power at all -- it's basically just an Images, Usable As Attack power:

 

Glitterdust: (Total: 60 Active Cost, 12 Real Cost) Sight Group Flash 1d6, Area Of Effect (2" Radius; +1 1/4) (11 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain; Ground Mica; -1), Spell (Conjuration; -1/2), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 2) plus Sight Group Images Increased Size (2" radius; +1/4), +4 to PER Rolls, Usable As Attack (+1) (49 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/4), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain; Ground Mica; -1), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Spell (Conjuration; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 10)

 

You can season this one to taste - personally, I think it's probably better at 3d6 or so Flash.

 

And I'd say don't worry so much about the active points. If a first level spell comes out to 90 points, so what? The player should only worry about the effects, not the points -- so just make it a first level spell that happens to clock in at 90 AP.

 

EDIT - You should put a Linked in there on the Images as well.

 

I'm really not all that concerned about the points -- seriously, it's not the end of the world. If the spell comes in higher, and higher is correct, then it is what it is. I don't know if using a PER modifier as an attack makes sense. Fmher. I think that the original concept of making it a Linked Suppress makes the most sense, but then you have three powers:

 

- the Invis Suppress

- the +4 PER modifier

- the Flash

 

Yeargh.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Hmmm... This is all excellent discussion. I feel the need to weigh in.

 

Glitterdust: "A cloud of golden particles covers everyone and everything in the area, causing creatures to become blinded and visibly outlining invisible things for the duration of the spell. All within the area are covered by the dust, which cannot be removed and continues to sparkle until it fades. Any creature covered by the dust takes a -40 penalty on Hide checks." It has a duration of 1 round per level.

 

It doesn't nullify invisibility, just outlines invisible things. You can't use it to make out details of what the invisible thing is. If there are no invisible things in the area of effect, it just blinds people for a short while. It's not an Adjustment power at all -- it's basically just an Images, Usable As Attack power:

 

Glitterdust: (Total: 60 Active Cost, 12 Real Cost) Sight Group Flash 1d6, Area Of Effect (2" Radius; +1 1/4) (11 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain; Ground Mica; -1), Spell (Conjuration; -1/2), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 2) plus Sight Group Images Increased Size (2" radius; +1/4), +4 to PER Rolls, Usable As Attack (+1) (49 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/4), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain; Ground Mica; -1), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Spell (Conjuration; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 10)

 

You can season this one to taste - personally, I think it's probably better at 3d6 or so Flash.

 

And I'd say don't worry so much about the active points. If a first level spell comes out to 90 points, so what? The player should only worry about the effects, not the points -- so just make it a first level spell that happens to clock in at 90 AP.

 

EDIT - You should put a Linked in there on the Images as well.

 

 

The problem I see with using Images is that it still doesn't solve the issue of "targeting" the character(s) who are invisible. It's like trying to cast the spell "Mirror Images" (assuming it was usable on others) on an invisible character. You first have to be able to "target" the invisible character. Images don't get do this just because they are AOE or even if UAA is applied. Some type of sense not affected by the Invisibility is necessary to "target" them when they move.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Flaming Sphere [Evocation]: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6-1' date=' Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Two activation conditions apply simultaneously, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger[/quote']

 

But the caster DOES control the personal trigger - he concentrates, the spell moves. I'd say that the need to use a half phase to activate the Trigger is reasonably a reeduction of 1/4 to the Triger advantage for the same cost, though.

 

Trigger can expire (it has a time limit); Character concentrates or Target enters or is physically in Sphere's hex; the hex where the last target was attacked; +1/2), Lingering up to 1 Turn (+1/2) (50 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/2), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; A bit of tallow, a pinch of brimstone, a dusting of powdered iron; -1), Spell (Evocation; -1/2), Requires An Evocation Roll (-1/2), Limited Mobility (Next Attack Must be Within 6" of Last Attack; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Limited Range (Medium, Maximum of 25"; -1/4)

 

Thoughts?

 

The actual AP cost should be 62, as the Trigger needs an extra +1/2 to reset automatically. As set out above, the attack goes off once, then the character needs to spend a half phase, and an attack action, to re-set the trigger.

 

This effectis similar to a Damage Shield, and suffers the same overcosting effect, so I suspect you won't get the cost down to the level you want. I suppose you could make it a 1d6+1 KA to achieve a 50 AP cost, or just have the AP cost at a higher level.

[AlHazred]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

I think that the original concept of making it a Linked Suppress makes the most sense, but then you have three powers:

 

- the Invis Suppress

- the +4 PER modifier

- the Flash

 

Yeargh.

Again, I see nothing in the spell description that makes the Invisibility go away, so Suppress is not needed. The targets are still invisible, and at the end of the Glitterdust (which will have a shorter duration than most Invisibility spells) the target becomes invisible again. You cast Glitterdust when you suspect there's someone invisible there -- the spell doesn't give you any special sense to detect them. Since the Images are Usable As Attack and Area Effect, they should stick to Invisible foes just as well as visible ones.

 

The problem I see with using Images is that it still doesn't solve the issue of "targeting" the character(s) who are invisible. It's like trying to cast the spell "Mirror Images" (assuming it was usable on others) on an invisible character. You first have to be able to "target" the invisible character. Images don't get do this just because they are AOE or even if UAA is applied. Some type of sense not affected by the Invisibility is necessary to "target" them when they move.

Not if it's an Area of Effect. As I said above' date=' you cast Glitterdust when you suspect there's someone Invisible around, and don't want to waste a higher level spell. If you want to get rid of the Invisibility spells around you, you get a cleric to cast Invisibility Purge, and [i']that [/i]effect would be a Suppress (again, though, it's an Area of Effect, so no roll is needed beyond hitting the center hex).

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Not if it's an Area of Effect. As I said above' date=' you cast Glitterdust when you suspect there's someone Invisible around, and don't want to waste a higher level spell. If you want to get rid of the Invisibility spells around you, you get a cleric to cast Invisibility Purge, and [i']that [/i]effect would be a Suppress (again, though, it's an Area of Effect, so no roll is needed beyond hitting the center hex).

 

You should really take a look at the Sense Affecting Powers and Adjustment Power rules.

 

To clarify the issue I will provide a different sfx example:

 

Say Hologram-Guy is looking for Inviso-Dude. Hologram-Guy can make any image he wants using his Images power. He can make a holographic "car" or he can even make a real car "disapear" (using minuses to PER). However, he cannot counter Inviso-Dude's Invisibility power without also having some type of Enhanced Sense that would allow him to actually perceive Inviso-Dude first. Images is NOT a Enhanced Sense. Rather, it is a Sense Affecting Power just like Invisibility. The 2 are NOT the same thing. Hologram-Guy can certainly create a non-invisible Image of Inviso-Dude, but it will have no way to actually track the real Inviso-Dude's movements unless an applicable Enhanced Sense is used as well.

 

Having Area of Affect does NOT magically give Images the ability to sense Invisibility.

 

IF it did a simple flashlight (normally built using Images) would work against Invisibility but it doesn't. Suppress is NOT permanent. It normally stops as soon as END is no longer being paid. Continuing Charges replaces that mechanic. The only permanent way to purge (or dispell) the Invisibility is to actually use the power Dispell (or possibly Drain with a long enough recovery time).

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Okay kids, try this on for size:

 

Glitterdust [Conjuration]: (Total: 48 Active Cost, 9 Real Cost) Detect Invisible or Hidden Characters 14- (Sight Group), Limited Range (Medium, Maximum of 25"; +1/4), Area Of Effect (2" Radius; +1), Usable Simultaneously (up to 16 people at once; Glitterdust allows "other" characters to perceive Invisible or otherwise Hidden characters in the Area of Effect; +1 1/4) (28 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/4), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Ground Micah; -1), Spell (Conjuration; -1/2), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 6) plus Sight Group Flash 2d6, Area Of Effect (1" Radius; +1) (20 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Ground micah; -1), Linked (Glitterdust [Conjuration]; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4), Spell (Conjuration; -1/2), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 3)

 

Here's how I broke this down. First, it's a Detect usable at Range. Yes. That means (and I paid for it, and I'm reasoning from effect) that wherever this thing lands, people around it can detect what's happening. I built it up to 16 people, which is enough for almost any battlefield skirmish. Anything past that is an easy handwave if necessary (and hey, I can always make it 32). 1 Continuing Charge, yadda yadda. PLUS Flash Sight, already ranged, that smacks anyone in the same zone that Glitterdust lands in.

 

Please chew, digest and discuss.

 

Edit: Also, and for the record, Hyperman is correct, but in this design the Detect ceases to function when the Charge expires; voila. I may up the Detect level to 14-. Done & Posted.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Detect based on the Sight Group will not work against Invisibility that also affects the Sight Group. I would change it to either the Unusual or Magic Group. Also, Detect is not a Targeting Sense by default, that has to be purchased in addition to the base ability to work the way you want.

 

example:

RingWraiths could "detect" The One True Ring. But when it was worn they could not "see" the wearer. They could only "sense" that it was nearby. The same effect would probably apply to the elvish sword that glowed blue when goblins were nearby. It had a "Detect". If the goblin was wearing The One True Ring the sword would probably still glow blue but wouldn't let the user "see" the goblin.

 

I still think an Adjustment Power like Suppress or Drain actually fits the SFX better.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Flaming Sphere [Evocation].

 

Hugh: Without going into a quote fest, I've read all your notes on the topic. I'm looking at the spell now in HDv3, and we all agree on what it does in d20; it creates a mobile ball of fire that moves at the caster's command. Dice, and AP issues aside, the big puzzle is how to first simply make it work.

 

Trigger strikes me in part as a Handwave, as does No Range. My original build (at 90 AP) called for AOE & Mobile for this exact reason: Once the spell is an AOE (i.e., it's taking up a hex) anyone in the hex is subject to the effect. This simulates in HERO that if you stand next to Happy Fun Ball you're going to get scorched. In addition, it ALSO saves the trouble of worrying about an Attack Roll every time someone stands next to it.

 

In other words, I'm more concerned about modeling the mobility effect, than I am about modeling the original mechanics. I want the IDEA of Flaming Sphere, that's what a lot of these spells are about, and since no one is in my head but me, the government and the little men from Mars, you had no way of knowing that. I apologize.

 

With that, then, I've redesigned it to it's "original" version but using your input. It now looks like deese:

 

Flaming Sphere [Evocation]: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Lingering up to 1 Turn (+1/2), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Mobile (+1) (45 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/2), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; A bit of tallow, a pinch of brimstone, a dusting of powdered iron; -1), Spell (Evocation; -1/2), Requires An Evocation Roll (-1/2), Limited Mobility (Next Attack Must be Within 6" of Last Attack; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4)

 

While only 1d6 (1st level damage) you now have the advantages of a rolling AOE attack. I'm half tempted to slap Autofire on it to give it a little extra kick without breaking the bank (Autofire is one of the ways I model "extra dice" -- both Shocking Grasp & Magic Missile picked up AF 3, and Scorching Ray is AF 2 (two beams)).

 

Thoughts?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Detect based on the Sight Group will not work against Invisibility that also affects the Sight Group.

 

I would change it to either the Unusual or Magic Group. But I still think an Adjustment Power like Suppress or Drain actually fits the SFX better.

 

My understanding is different, and I'll tell you why: The "sight group" is simply what's taking in the information. Detect, by the Sight Group, Detect Invisibility or Hidden Characters on 14-. The reason I went with Detect is specifically because I can't Suppress your Hide Skill; at best I could make you re-roll it.

 

The other easy version of this to do is:

 

Change Environment, +10 to all PER Rolls vs. Invisible or Hidden Characters, plus Sight Group Flash 3d6.

 

However, HDv3 isn't currently allowing +PER rolls on CEs, no matter how many times I edit the damn text. I'll go post to Simon, then post here the CE version of the spell (Glitterdust II).

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Posted to Simon, and here's Glitterdust II:

 

Glitterdust II [Conjuration]: (Total: 45 Active Cost, 8 Real Cost) Change Environment 2" radius, -10 to Normal Sight PER Rolls (28 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/4), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; A chip of mica; -1), Only to Perceive Invisible or Hidden Creatures (-1), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Spell (Conjuration; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Limited Range (Medium, Maximum 25"; -1/4) (Real Cost: 5) plus Sight Group Flash 2d6, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), x2 Radius (+1/4) (17 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; A chip of mica; -1), Spell (Conjuration; -1/2), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 3)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

You were trying to have Change Environment increase the Perception roll of the caster's allies. CE can't do that but it can decrease the Concealement (skill) roll of the hiding targets.

 

21 Glitterdust [Conjuration] alternate: (Total: 105 Active Cost, 21 Real Cost) Suppress Invisibility 7d6 (standard effect: 21 points), Area Of Effect (2" radius; +3/4) (61 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Minute (-1), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Ground micah; -1), Spell (-1/2), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 13) plus Sight Group Flash 3d6, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2) (22 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Ground micah; -1), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Linked (Suppress; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 4) plus Change Environment 2" radius, -5 to Characteristic Roll or Skill Roll (22 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Minute (-1), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Ground micah; -1), Spell (-1/2), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Linked (Suppress; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 4) [Notes: The -5 is verses anyone attempting to "Hide" using Concealment or Images since they are now glowing (only if the Suppress worked).] - END=[1 cc]

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Here's a cheaper version:

 

16 Glitterdust [Conjuration] alternate #2: (Total: 83 Active Cost, 16 Real Cost) Suppress Invisibility 6d6 (standard effect: 18 points), Area Of Effect (2" radius; +3/4) (52 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/4), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Ground micah; -1), Spell (-1/2), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 11) plus Change Environment 2" radius, -3 to Characteristic Roll or Skill Roll (16 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/4), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Ground micah; -1), Spell (-1/2), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Linked (Suppress; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 3) plus Sight Group Flash 2d6, Explosion (+1/2) (15 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Ground micah; -1), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Linked (Suppress; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 2) [Notes: The -3 is verses anyone attempting to "Hide" using Concealment or Images since they are now glowing (only if the Suppress worked).] - END=[1 cc]

 

and here's an easier to read format via the List feature of HD:

 

Glitterdust [Conjuration], all slots OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; -1), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) - END=

11 1) Look! He's Glowing!: Suppress Invisibility 6d6 (standard effect: 18 points), Area Of Effect (2" radius; +3/4) (52 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/4) - END=[1 cc]

3 2) Look! He's Glowing!: Change Environment 2" radius, -3 to Characteristic Roll or Skill Roll (16 Active Points); 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/4), Linked (Suppress; -1/2) [Notes: The -3 is verses anyone attempting to "Hide" using Concealment or Images since they are now glowing (only if the Suppress worked).] - END=[1 cc]

4 3) Poof!: Sight Group Flash 2d6, Area Of Effect (2" Radius; +1 1/4) (22 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Linked (Suppress; -1/2) - END=[1]

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Ooh Ohh AHAHA AAH AH OOP!

 

LIST! Where... LIST! Eee ooh AHAHA!

 

Monkey cannot find the function!

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Ooh Ohh AHAHA AAH AH OOP!

 

LIST! Where... LIST! Eee ooh AHAHA!

 

Monkey cannot find the function!

 

While in the Powers tab look at the top where you see Edit, List, Sorting, Power Frameworks.

 

You can add powers and common adjustments to a List just like a Power Framework.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Here's a fun one for y'all to chew on:

 

ALTER SELF. I don't think that HERO can do this without some tremendous hand waves. Normally I would rule this as a Shape Shift (x2+ numbers of forms) or a +1 Advantage, "any form of 100 points" or something similar, although that might be worth even more than +1.

 

The problem is, of course, that this isn't a Shape Shift, it's a Multiform. It grants the user new abilities. However, Multiform must be attached to a specific form, and then multiplied.

 

Once you hit 200 points straight, with a single x2 multiplier, though, I'm well capped for the "accepted" (by Killer Shrike's standards) AP for this level, while Multiform allows you to turn into ANYTHING.

 

This simply may be far too powerful and HERO is naturally capping it. "Flight" and additional powers that could be granted by this power are of course, not covered.

 

I'm just curious what your collected thoughts are. I'm not about to build a VPP within a Spell within a VPP -- not only am I fairly certain it's a HUGE handwave to do so, I'm not even certain I could get enough points for the effect.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Right NOW it's being built as a maxed out shape shift -- which isn't entirely accurate, but it's at least close in terms of total result. Other than the flight/weapons thing.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Right NOW it's being built as a maxed out shape shift -- which isn't entirely accurate' date=' but it's at least close in terms of total result. Other than the flight/weapons thing.[/quote']

 

I'm not that familiar with D&D later than v2. What is the duration and other limitations of Alter Self? Does it still allow other spells to be cast when it's in effect?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

I provided linky on the prior page, much easier than me doing the copy/paste thing. The short version is this:

 

- 10m/level (Continuous Charge, 1 hr.)

- Gestures, Incants

- Turn yourself into Damn Near Anything within the span of the spell, including picking up combat ability, flight, swimming, whatever. Maybe this is what Imitation is for? It's in HDv3, but I can't find it in 5ER.

 

I have this:

 

Alter Self [Transmutation]: Shape Shift (Sight, Smell/Taste, Hearing and Touch Groups, any shape), Imitation (49 Active Points); Requires A Transmutation Roll (-1/2), Spell (Transmutation; -1/2), 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Hour (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

I just remembered that a friend left their D&D 3.5 Players Handbook over here last week.

 

I think you are describing the effects of the more powerful (9th Level) Shapechange spell. According to the writeup for the (2nd Level) Alter Self spell, it does not grant any extraordinary abilities outside of some very basic shape-related ones (if your new form has wings you can fly, if it has claws you have a natural attack, etc...)

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Not quite -- because the HERO power of Shape Shift only creates cosmetic changes. To add any "power" you need Multiform. that's the weird hitchy part.