Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

HM: Sorry' date=' I think this one is over my head. Would you mind breaking down for me the bit where the damage is dealt? Is this like a ... Summon? I'm lost. [/quote']

 

A full explanation would require posting the rules for Mental Illusion straight from 5er. Suffice to say, that with enough effect you can make a target believe they are taking damage. The amount is the lesser of either the effect roll itself (75 in this case) or the active points in the power.

 

After thinking about it some more, I believe the Skill vs. EGO roll might actually be redundant using the Mental Illusion method since the effect roll is essentially doing the same thing. You could then set the Side effect to trigger if the target with Telepathy isn't killed by the illusion.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

AHA. This might be a MUCH better way of doing Shadow Conjuration! In which case the point is that the creatures themselves are nothing more than shadow. HUH. I was oblivious to the power entirely. YOU DA MAN. And you da man I can't seem to r3ppz0rz yet.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Y'all try this one on for size; thanks to t3h mastah of disastah' date=' [i']Steve Long[/i] for inspiring me to make this version:

 

Geas III [Enchantment (Compulsion)]: Drain All Base Stats Simultaneously 1d6, Difficult To Dispel (x2 Active Points; +1/4), Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires 24 hours to reset, Character can set Trigger multiple times; +1/4), Cumulative (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Year (+1 1/4), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Week; +1 3/4), All primary characterists simultaneously (+2) (75 Active Points); Casting Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Geas Compulsion Activates every 24 Hours (See Text); -1 1/4), Spell (Enchantment; -1/2), Requires An Enchantment Roll (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4)

 

What mechanically causes the complusion, if anything? I'm not up on modern day D20 style D&D spells. This version of the spell is similar to something I cooked up back in the 4th edition rules (a sword called Oathbinder), but as written, the only 'compulsion" is to not get hit with the additional Drain after the Trigger resets.

 

That said, it's a fine write up for a "Do this or suffer" spell.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Y'all try this one on for size; thanks to t3h mastah of disastah' date=' [i']Steve Long[/i] for inspiring me to make this version:

 

Geas III [Enchantment (Compulsion)]: Drain All Base Stats Simultaneously 1d6, Difficult To Dispel (x2 Active Points; +1/4), Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires 24 hours to reset, Character can set Trigger multiple times; +1/4), Cumulative (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Year (+1 1/4), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Week; +1 3/4), All primary characterists simultaneously (+2) (75 Active Points); Casting Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Geas Compulsion Activates every 24 Hours (See Text); -1 1/4), Spell (Enchantment; -1/2), Requires An Enchantment Roll (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4)

 

 

The only issues I see with using Drain is that different characteristics will be affected differently based on their cost in HERO. Also, if the character later some how gets some amout of Power Defense he can arguably ignore the some of the Drain effects. This is totally different than the D&D3.5 description.

 

AmadanNaBriona explained how to use my Transform build far better than I did.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Like deese?

 

23 Shadow Conjuration II [illusion]: Mental Illusions 12d6, Variable Special Effects (Mimics Any 3rd Level or Lower Conjuration; +1/4) (75 Active Points); Requires An Illusion Roll (-1/2), Spell (Illusion; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Normal Range (-1/4), Limited Range (25" (Medium Range); -1/4), Visible (-1/4)

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

That's the thing though -- in this case, the command & trigger are exactly that, and the command simply becomes a special effect, which isn't totally unlike the d20 version; while the version talks about the compulsion, it almost makes more sense to me to include the Drain as the primary effect. However, this is why I put together multiple versions of different spells (that one used 3 -- if we get to 4 it'll be a record).

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

That's the thing though -- in this case' date=' the command & trigger are exactly that, and the command simply becomes a special effect, which isn't [i']totally[/i] unlike the d20 version; while the version talks about the compulsion, it almost makes more sense to me to include the Drain as the primary effect. However, this is why I put together multiple versions of different spells (that one used 3 -- if we get to 4 it'll be a record).

 

No worries.

 

I thought this topic was familiar.... here's a post on an older thread on the topic of geisa.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

And while I'm sharing as I go (4th Level spells have been the trickiest yet) here's my current build for Enervation:

 

18 Enervation [Necromancy]: Drain DEX 2d6, Limited Range (10" (Close Range); +1/4), Cumulative (24 points; +3/4), DEX, INT, EGO, Magic Pool VPP (+1), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Hour; +1), Side Effects (Minor Side Effect, Undead gain +1d6 BODY that drains at 5 points/hour; +0) (80 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Requires A Necromancy Roll (-1/2), Spell (Necromancy; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4)

 

For those playing along at home, here are the design decisions that made this spell the way it is: first, I had to knock down a number of things, not all of which exist in HERO terms. There's only four of them, but I've been told by Steve Long himself that I can't "drain OCV." Because OCV is a derived stat, so I opted to drain DEX, which in HERO significantly impacts combat value (you'll lose OCV, DCV & SPD in the process.)

 

Second, it directly impacts spell casting ability and skills; so I had to choose among the base stats that drive skills, and settled on INT & EGO so casters would be affected the same way. The final mod is "Magic Pool VPP" -- which is pretty open, admittedly, but I wasn't sure how else to say "This borks your ability to cast." However, IIRC you can suppress/drain almost anything, and powers get drained all the time, right? Fire Powers get drained, and the VPP is a power.

 

So. Drains your VPP. The only wobbly bit is "if the target has multiple VPPs, do you drain both? Just the one?" Using the Charges philosophy I could probably squeeze in "All VPPs." Anyway. On to the next one.

[1EyedJack]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

And while I'm on the subject' date=' it wasn't long before I got stumped on this little gem: [i']Secure Shelter. [/i]I'm just going to build it as "Summon Base" and be done, but if you have any other thoughts, I'm curious what they are.

 

7 Secure Shelter [Conjuration (Creation)]: Summon Shelter 250-point base, Ranged (10" (Close); +1/2) (75 Active Points); Casting Time (10 Minutes, Character May Take No Other Actions, -2 1/4), 1 Charge (-2), Gestures, Requires Gestures throughout (Requires both hands; -1), Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; Complex; -1), Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (Summon a Single Structure; -1), OAF ( A square chip of stone, crushed lime, a few grains of sand, a sprinkling of water, and several splinters of wood.; -1), Requires Multiple Foci or functions at reduced effectiveness (The focus of the alarm spell) (+1/4), Spell (Conjuration; -1/2), Requires A Conjuration Roll (-1/2)

 

Requires Slavish Advantage (+1) when summoning bases or vehicles

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Here's an alternative a little closer to the original in range of effect:

 

20 Enervation [Necromancy]: Suppress 1d6+1 (standard effect: 4 points), all [special effect] powers simultaneously (+2), Difficult To Dispel (x2 Active Points; +1/4), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; +1/2), 4 Continuing Charges lasting 6 Hours each (+3/4), Can Apply (Remove) Adders (+1), NND ([standard]; +1), Autofire (5 shots; 4 Shots (represents "1d4"); +1/2), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1) (56 Active Points); Spell (Necromancy) (-1/2), Requires A Necromancy Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Limited Range (-1/4) - END=[4 cc]

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Requires Slavish Advantage (+1) when summoning bases or vehicles

 

Page reference please? I'll go ahead and make the change, but if you could point me where that's stipulated, would be very handy. Thanks!

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Here's an alternative a little closer to the original in range of effect:

 

20 Enervation [Necromancy]: Suppress 1d6+1 (standard effect: 4 points), all [special effect] powers simultaneously (+2), Difficult To Dispel (x2 Active Points; +1/4), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; +1/2), 4 Continuing Charges lasting 6 Hours each (+3/4), Can Apply (Remove) Adders (+1), NND ([standard]; +1), Autofire (5 shots; 4 Shots (represents "1d4"); +1/2), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1) (56 Active Points); Spell (Necromancy) (-1/2), Requires A Necromancy Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Limited Range (-1/4) - END=[4 cc]

 

Does Autofire do you any good without Cumulative? And I have been using AF to represent dice, but the concept behind Enervation threw me for a loop -- wasn't sure where to begin modeling it. I will go ahead and make this "Enervation" and my build "Enervation II." I think you're right, this is MUCH closer.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Does Autofire do you any good without Cumulative? And I have been using AF to represent dice' date=' but the concept behind Enervation threw me for a loop -- wasn't sure where to begin modeling it. I will go ahead and make this "Enervation" and my build "Enervation II." I think you're right, this is MUCH closer.[/quote']

 

Suppress, unlike Drain, is already Cumulative by default.

 

I can't remember if AF allows less than the full number of shots to be fired. If it does then the power could take another Limitation stating that all 'charges' must be used together.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Suppress, unlike Drain, is already Cumulative by default.

 

I can't remember if AF allows less than the full number of shots to be fired. If it does then the power could take another Limitation stating that all 'charges' must be used together.

 

It does; in HERO: Combat Evolved even though the BR-55 Battle Rifle (UNSC Arsenal) has an AF 3, you could choose to fire 1 or 2 rounds instead. Although the GAME forces you to fire bursts, that's for VG balance purposes and was thus omitted from the HERO design. I will include a -1/4 limitation, Must Use Autofire At Full.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

PS: Thanks to whomever 5 starred this thread. Recognition and tips are appreciated.

 

-- The Mgmt.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Suppress, unlike Drain, is already Cumulative by default.

 

I can't remember if AF allows less than the full number of shots to be fired. If it does then the power could take another Limitation stating that all 'charges' must be used together.

 

Hold. Are you sure about this? I'm in Hero Designer right now, and I've hit an incongruity. It's still letting me add Cumulative to Suppress. According to the text, the Suppress itself is not Cumulative -- i.e., this exact power will not be cumulative.

 

However, if each of us casts Enervation separately, THEN it would stack (Similarly, the effect of multiple characters using different Suppresses of the same Characteristic or Power is cumulative.) (5ER, p.227)

 

Your Christian has been eaten by a Lion.

Crapicus!

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Okay, so I put this together based on HM's design, and it came out rather broken. I'm almost wondering if this isn't too powerful, despite being "right." With the available points I bumped up the total output to 6 SER -- this is actually "closer to canon" in that HERO costs vary. With the +2 I've opted to suppress all primary characteristics (i.e., all skill rolls, ability checks, etc.), STUN, and all Magic Pool VPPs.

 

24 Enervation [Necromancy]: Suppress Suppress Soul (See Text) 2d6 (standard effect: 6 points), all [special effect] powers simultaneously (+2), 1 Continuing Charge lasting 6 Hours (+0), Side Effects (Side Effect does a predefined amount of damage; Aid Undead 1d6-1 BODY if struck, fading at 5 points/hour; +0), Difficult To Dispel (x2 Active Points; +1/4), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; +1/2), Cumulative (48 points; +1), Autofire (3 shots; +1/4), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per 6 Hours; +1 1/4) (72 Active Points); Spell (Necromancy; -1/2), Requires A Necromancy Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Limited Range (10" (Close Range); -1/4), Full Autofire Only (This Power Requires All Shots of Autofire Be Used at Time of Casting; -1/4)

 

Notes: Enervation has the following effects; * Suppress All Primary Characteristics * Suppress All Magic Pools * Suppress STUN

 

This version of the spell, on Autofire, with no Power Defense, will drop most people like a bag of hammers, so it actually works exactly as I would have it do so -- a little Power Defense WILL save you, but most people don't have it.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

FYI: Because of the open ended nature of the magic system, i.e., people aren't restricted to which spells they put in which slots, only to how many points they have available, the spell Mnemonic Enhancer will not be included; it exists purely as part of the d20 meta-concept (spell levels & slots) and thus doesn't 'function' in HERO. If anyone has anything different to say about it, or can think of a nifty effect that this spell could replicate in HERO terms, by all means, let me know.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Hold. Are you sure about this? I'm in Hero Designer right now, and I've hit an incongruity. It's still letting me add Cumulative to Suppress. According to the text, the Suppress itself is not Cumulative -- i.e., this exact power will not be cumulative.

 

However, if each of us casts Enervation separately, THEN it would stack (Similarly, the effect of multiple characters using different Suppresses of the same Characteristic or Power is cumulative.) (5ER, p.227)

 

Your Christian has been eaten by a Lion.

Crapicus!

 

I'm not sure why HD is still giving the option but according to the quoted secton the book below it is not necessary.

 

from 5ER page 592

 

USING SUPPRESS

 

Suppress can be used to Suppress any Characteristic or Power, even Suppress, though this can become confusing. There is no limit to the amount of Character Points a character can Suppress from his victim; he may use the same Suppress repeatedly on the same target, provided he still has points left to Suppress in the Power or Characteristic, and can afford the END cost. (Similarly, the effect of multiple characters using different Suppresses of the same Characteristic or Power is cumulative.)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

 

24 Enervation [Necromancy]: Suppress Suppress Soul (See Text) 2d6 (standard effect: 6 points), all [special effect] powers simultaneously (+2), 1 Continuing Charge lasting 6 Hours (+0), Side Effects (Side Effect does a predefined amount of damage; Aid Undead 1d6-1 BODY if struck, fading at 5 points/hour; +0), Difficult To Dispel (x2 Active Points; +1/4), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; +1/2), Cumulative (48 points; +1), Autofire (3 shots; +1/4), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per 6 Hours; +1 1/4) (72 Active Points); Spell (Necromancy; -1/2), Requires A Necromancy Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Limited Range (10" (Close Range); -1/4), Full Autofire Only (This Power Requires All Shots of Autofire Be Used at Time of Casting; -1/4)

 

Couple of issues:

1. You need the same number of Charges as you intend to Autofire.
   
2. Delayed Return Rate is unnecessary when using Continuing Charges with Suppress. Once the Continuing Charge timeframe is up the Suppress ends.

One of the reasons (besides inflating the otherwise cheap cost) I added NND to the power so that the 'standard' Power Defense would not apply against this spell. The defense would be only those that provide 'negative plane protection' (whatever those are!).

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Dude. I completely missed the NND. That explains a lot. I knew about the Charges but that was an editing error, thanks for catching it! I've also taken off Cumulative, thank you for finding that -- I looked under Suppress but couldn't see where it was stated clearly. Dagnabbit.

 

6th Edition notes:

 

1) ALL POSSIBLE MODIFIERS IN ONE SECTION, DAMMIT. I always look for Ablative and its never where I expect it to be. Same goes for this; if Cumulative doesn't apply, that should be listed in the power. Sort of a meta-design, with notes only as necessary (i.e., the following modifiers can be applied; these modifiers are specific).

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

4th Level magic is up on the first page; also, the entire post has been rewritten (I unpublished and republished a clearer version). EST to HM for his assistance. I will now (I think) begin 5th Level Magic.

 

WOOPS. Forgot Stone Shape. Look for an amendment shortly.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Have you considered adding the spell lists to the HeroDesigner Vault?

 

http://www.herodesigner.com/prefabs.htm?genre=Fantasy+Hero

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

Er... I did now.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Sorceror/Wizard 3.5 Spell Conversion

 

DING! WELCOME TO LEVEL 5!

 

Alright you hepcats. Here we go, 5th level magic. My first stumper from last night, which I slept on and now have my own solution for, is Dismissal. A little ditty that goes sum-sum like dis:

 

14 Dismissal [Abjuration]: Extra-Dimensional Movement (Single Dimension [Target's Home Plane], Any Location corresponding to current physical location), x4 Increased Weight, Limited Range (10" (Close); +1/4), Usable As Attack (+1) (72 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Requires An Abjuration Roll (RSR Skill is subject to Skill vs. Skill contests; Abjuration roll is modified by the Power Defense of the target (See Text); -3/4), Spell (Abjuration; -1/2), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Planar Eddy (Target is transferred to a different plane than its own, 8-); -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4)

 

This is "Version I" of this spell; in d20, there is a limiting element with a power like this because the target gets a saving throw; no such mechanic exists in HERO. In this case, I have opted to allow Power Defense to directly impact the Skill Roll made by the caster, creating a "natural barrier" between the caster's spell and the target's ability to keep hold on the Prime Material Plane. Despite being able to send any creature back to its home dimension (wherever that may be) the spell really only sends one target to one place -- their own home plane. This is a minor stretch mechanically, but because the caster cannot select from various locations, I have left it as such.