Building grenades for a grenade launcher

[DataPacRat]

My HERO-fu isn't quite up to what I'd like to build, so I'm asking the collective here for a few suggestions.

 

My new gadgeteer superhero has something similar to a pistol-grip 40mm grenade launcher (though using a superscience force-push gimmick to propel them), and a bandoleer of various sorts of ammo. Since she can swap out the ammo loads in her lab, maybe load up on one sort, a VPP seems a better approach than a multipower. But I'm not quite up to writing up eight or nine different sorts of grenades, and figuring out how to work the charges for various load-outs.

 

The game has a limit of 60 AP on powers, but the grenade-launcher is the secondary power rather than the primary ability; plus, after writing up the rest of the sheet, I had 2 dozen points left, so this is what I have so far:

 

Force-pushed Grenade Launcher:

[24] VPP, 20-point pool (20). Control cost (10), OAF (-1), Can only change powers in home base (-1/2), Slightly Limited Class of powers: grenades (-1/4). (4)

(eg: Vision-obscuring smoke, KO gas, tear/riot gas, stinkbombs, paint-splash grenades, parachute flares, flashbangs, explosives, holy water.)

 

I could probably get away with a fire-extinguishing CO2 grenade, or maybe a sticky-tangler-glop type one, too. Not that I know how to build /them/, either.

 

 

Anybody care to help me out putting something useful together? Thanks.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Building grenades for a grenade launcher

 

There's not much you can do with 20 points, especially with the types of things you're requested. Here's a mild attempt:

 

24 Grenades: Variable Power Pool (Grenade), 20 base + 4 control cost, (30 Active Points); VPP Powers Can Be Changed Only In Given Circumstance (at home base; -1/2), Slightly Limited Class Of Powers Available (grenades; -1/4); all slots OAF (-1)

1) Smoke: Darkness to Sight Group 2" radius, 8 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each (+0) (20 Active Points); OAF (-1) Real Cost: 10

2) KO Gas: Energy Blast 2d6, 16 Charges (+0), No Normal Defense (LS: Self Contained Breathing, holding breath; +1) (20 Active Points); OAF (-1) Real Cost: 10

3) Tear Gas: (Total: 20 Active Cost, 10 Real Cost) Sight and Smell/Taste Groups Flash 3d6, 16 Charges (+0) (20 Active Points); OAF (-1) (Real Cost: 10) Real Cost: 10

4) Stink Bomb Disibility: Change Environment 2" radius, -1 DCV, -1 OCV, Multiple Combat Effects (20 Active Points); 2 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each (-1), OAF (-1) Real Cost: 7

7) Stink Bomb Smell: Darkness to Smell/Taste Group 2" radius (10 Active Points); 2 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each (-1), OAF (-1), Linked (Change Environment; -1/2) Real Cost: 3

10) Paint: Cosmetic Transform 2 1/2d6 (target into brightly colored target, healed back by cleaning), 16 Charges (+0), Partial Transform (+1/2) (19 Active Points); OAF (-1) Real Cost: 9

11) Parachute Flare: Sight Group Images Increased Size (4" radius; +1/2), +/-1 to PER Rolls, 8 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each (+0) (19 Active Points); Only To Create Light (-1), OAF (-1), Only Outdoors/High Ceiling (-1/4) Real Cost: 6

12) Flashbang: Sight and Hearing Groups Flash 3d6, 16 Charges (+0) (20 Active Points); OAF (-1) Real Cost: 10

 

 

Most of these items are not Explosion or AoE. Doing so would make then worthless in a campaign where most attacks have at least twice as many active points.

[braincraft]

Re: Building grenades for a grenade launcher

 

Yeah, 24 points isn't really enough to do a very useful AoE- and weird effects- oriented VPP. You might want to start out with a highly limited multipower array to keep costs down, and upgrade to a full VPP with experience.

 

40mm Grenade Launcher: multipower (40 active pts), OAF (-1), 8 charges (-1/2), 16 real cost

-Smoke Grenades: Darkness to sight group 3", 8 continuing charges lasting 1 turn (30 active, 1 real cost)

-KO Gas: 2d6 NND AoE Radius Continuous, 8 continuing charges lasting 1 turn (40 active, 2 real cost)

 

and so forth. I'm not gonna do the whole thing, but it's a lot easier with more active points to play with.

 

Hmm. I kinda want to make a character for whom specialized grenade munitions is a schtick.

[DataPacRat]

Re: Building grenades for a grenade launcher

 

There's not much you can do with 20 points' date=' especially with the types of things you're requested. Here's a mild attempt:[/quote']

 

It may be mild, but it's more than enough for me to start discussing with my GM how to actually start using them. Thank you kindly.

 

 

Most of these items are not Explosion or AoE. Doing so would make then worthless in a campaign where most attacks have at least twice as many active points.

 

I happen to be fond of seemingly worthless powers, but that's a whole other thread's discussion.

 

 

Yeah, 24 points isn't really enough to do a very useful AoE- and weird effects- oriented VPP. You might want to start out with a highly limited multipower array to keep costs down, and upgrade to a full VPP with experience.

 

40mm Grenade Launcher: multipower (40 active pts), OAF (-1), 8 charges (-1/2), 16 real cost

-Smoke Grenades: Darkness to sight group 3", 8 continuing charges lasting 1 turn (30 active, 1 real cost)

-KO Gas: 2d6 NND AoE Radius Continuous, 8 continuing charges lasting 1 turn (40 active, 2 real cost)

 

and so forth. I'm not gonna do the whole thing, but it's a lot easier with more active points to play with.

 

Hm... I'll keep that in mind, but it seems trickier to rearrange a multipower to have a 'one of each type' loadout for a given night's patrol instead of 'all of one type'. (If it makes any difference, this gadgeteer happens to have Weaponsmith for both chemical and incendiary weapons...)

 

 

(Say, is there an official HERO power writeup for the use of holy water versus various evil supernatural creatures?)

 

 

Hmm. I kinda want to make a character for whom specialized grenade munitions is a schtick.

I once did that for a GURPS Ultra-Tech PC; 40mm grenades with all the various high-tech options available are just /fun/.

 

For some visual inspiration, you might want to consider either the XM320 grenade launcher...

http://www.sargs.lv/pix/jan04-milit-ieroci-6.jpg

http://www.norincogroup.com.cn/newsview.aspx?id=4607

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:XM320_stock_extended.jpg

... or the AG36 grenade launcher.

http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl17-e.htm

http://www.airsoftclub.ru/upload/AG36.jpg

http://www.safarasoftair.com/images/smokey%20g36%20lauch..jpg

http://www.wizards.com/d20modern/images/wl_gallery/79274.jpg

Interestingly, the AG36, with "stuff" on top, happens to look just right for a "gas gun":

http://www.tokyo-model.com.hk/ezimagecatalogue/catalogue/variations/3239-400x400.jpg

http://www.airsoftclan.com/images/STAR-AG36%5B1%5D.jpg

http://www.airsoftextreme.com/store/images/GLL-G3605.jpg

 

 

Of course, it's hard to go wrong with the classics: "Suck gas, evildoer!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkwing_Duck

[braincraft]

Re: Building grenades for a grenade launcher

 

When I build things like this, I usually find it easier to just take a general charges pool for the whole multi/variable pool and just assume that my character 'always has the right tool for the job'.

[Edsel]

Re: Building grenades for a grenade launcher

 

Our group has a "different" way of building grenade launchers and 40mm grenades. The launcher is built as a sort of naked power, it is bought as STR usable only for throwing 40mm grenades. A naked advantage of Autofire can be added for things like a Mk. 19 grenade launcher. The grenades are then written up as individual attacks and the grenade launcher is used to "throw" them.

[braincraft]

Re: Building grenades for a grenade launcher

 

Our group has a "different" way of building grenade launchers and 40mm grenades. The launcher is built as a sort of naked power' date=' it is bought as STR usable only for throwing 40mm grenades. A naked advantage of Autofire can be added for things like a Mk. 19 grenade launcher. The grenades are then written up as individual attacks and the grenade launcher is used to "throw" them.[/quote']

 

That's kind of assuming that you can use those grenades without the launcher, which, in all cases that I know of, you cannot, really. Launcher grenades are different from hand grenades.

[Vondy]

Re: Building grenades for a grenade launcher

 

I ran across a direct fire, non-lethal rubber round for 40mm grenade launchers. It was being marketed as a "behavior modification round." I cracked up.

[Shaft]

Re: Building grenades for a grenade launcher

 

I think you're better off building a 60 pt multipower, with each slot representing the different grenades you want. You can put charges on each slot as well. Your grenades will be more effective with 60 pts too, instead of just 20 pts.

 

This is how I built Shaft's arrows (it's 42 real pts). Just replace the arrows with grenades as you see fit:

 

26 Arrows: Multipower, 52-point reserve, (52 Active Points); all slots OAF (Focus: Bow/Arrows; -1)

 

2u 1) Normal Arrows: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, 8 Recoverable Charges (+0), Invisible to Hearing Group, Source Only (+1/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (52 Active Points); OAF (Focus: Bow/Arrows; -1), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4) Notes: OOOOO OOO [8 rc]

 

2u 2) More Normal Arrows: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, 8 Recoverable Charges (+0), Invisible to Hearing Group, Source Only (+1/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (52 Active Points); OAF (Focus: Bow/Arrows; -1), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4) Notes: OOOOO OOO [8 rc]

 

1u 3) Acid Arrows: Killing Attack - Ranged 1/2d6, 4 Continuing Charges lasting 5 Minutes each (+0), Invisible to Hearing Group, Source Only (+1/4), Sticky (+1/2), Penetrating (x2; +1), Continuous (+1) (37 Active Points); OAF (Focus: Bow/Arrows; -1), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4) Notes: OOOO [4 cc]

 

1u 4) Armor Piercing Arrows: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6+1, Invisible to Hearing Group, Source Only (+1/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Penetrating (+1/2) (45 Active Points); OAF (Focus: Bow/Arrows; -1), 4 Recoverable Charges (-1/2), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4) Notes: OOOO [4 rc]

 

1u 5) Bola Arrows: Entangle 3d6, 5 DEF, Entangle And Character Both Take Damage (+1/4) (50 Active Points); OAF (-1), 8 Charges (-1/2), Cannot Form Barriers (-1/4), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4) Notes: OOOOO OOO [8]

 

1u 6) Concussion Grenade Arrows: Energy Blast 7d6, Explosion (+1/2) (52 Active Points); 3 Charges (-1 1/4), OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4) Notes: OOO [3]

 

1u 7) Flashbang Arrow: Sight and Hearing Groups Flash 6d6, Explosion (+1/2) (52 Active Points); 3 Charges (-1 1/4), OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4) Notes: OOO [3]

 

1u 8) High-Explosive Arrows: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6-1, Area Of Effect (3" Radius; +1) (50 Active Points); 4 Charges (-1), OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4) Notes: OOOO [4]

 

1u 9) Line Arrow/Winch: (Total: 52 Active Cost, 15 Real Cost) Swinging 22" (22 Active Points); OAF (Focus: Bow/Arrows; -1), 3 Recoverable Charges (-3/4) (Real Cost: 8) plus Telekinesis (13 STR), Fine Manipulation (30 Active Points); OAF (Focus (Line Arrow/Winch); -1), Limited Power only to pull objects toward character (-1), 4 Recoverable Charges (-1/2), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4), No Knockback (-1/4) (Real Cost: 7) [3 rc]

 

1u 10) Paraflare Arrows: Sight Group Images Increased Size (32" radius; +1 1/4), +/-4 to PER Rolls, 6 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Minute each (+0) (49 Active Points); Only To Create Light (-1), OAF (Focus: Bow/Arrows; -1), Real Weapon (-1/4) Notes: OOOOO OOO [6 cc]

 

1u 11) Smoke Arrows: Darkness to Sight and Smell/Taste Groups and Radar 4" radius (50 Active Points); OAF (Focus: Bow/Arrows; -1), Limited Power Dispersed by Wind and Rain (-1/2), Cannot Use Targeting (-1/2), 12 Charges (-1/4), Can Be Missile Deflected (-1/4) Notes: OOOOO OOOOO OO [12]

 

1u 12) Tear Gas Arrows: Drain STUN 1d6, 6 Continuing Charges lasting 5 Minutes each (+1/4), Continuous (+1), No Normal Defense (Self Contained Breathing or appropriate immunity; +1), Area Of Effect (12" Radius; +1 1/2) (47 Active Points); OAF (Focus: Bow/Arrows; -1), Cannot Use Targeting (-1/2), Limited Power: Dispersed by Wind and Rain (-1/2), Can Be Missile Deflected (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4) [6 cc]

 

1u 13) Taser Arrows: Energy Blast 5d6, No Normal Defense (Insulated, Resistant ED or Hardened Resistant ED; +1) (50 Active Points); 4 Charges (-1), OAF (Focus: Bow/Arrows; -1), Beam (-1/4) Notes: OOOO

 

If you have a few extra points beyond that, you can always add:

 

 

2 Quality Weapon: +1 with Ranged Combat (5 Active Points); OIF (Focus (Appropriate Ranged Weapon); -1/2), Restrainable (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4)

 

5 Bank Shot: Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4) for up to 52 Active Points of Arrows & Thrown Weapons (13 Active Points); OIF (Focus (arrows/projectiles of opportunity); -1/2), Restrainable (-1/2), Requires A Trick Shot Skill Roll (-1/2)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Building grenades for a grenade launcher

 

Notes: OOOO

 

 

I really like this idea as a method of keeping track of charges. So simple it never occured to me.

[DataPacRat]

Re: Building grenades for a grenade launcher

 

I think you're better off building a 60 pt multipower' date=' with each slot representing the different grenades you want. You can put charges on each slot as well. Your grenades will be more effective with 60 pts too, instead of just 20 pts.[/quote']

 

After a quick chat with my GM, he also suggests MultiPower. And http://www.herogames.com/SupportFAQs/revisedrules/POWER%20FRAMEWORKS.htm happens to suggest a limit on the MultiPower cost, "Can Only Carry X Defined Charges From All The Slots At A Time (-0)", where X is around half the total slots' charges.

 

The current build is like so. I've already trimmed away a couple of points elsewhere, and there are about 10 points of skills that aren't /completely/ essential to the character concept that I could trim if I really needed to pay for something else, such as increasing some of the grenades' slot-costs from 1u to 2u.

 

 

40mm Force-pushed Grenade Launcher: [29]

[20] Multipower (40 active pts), OAF (-1), Can Only Carry 28 Defined Charges From All The Slots At A Time (-0)

[2u] KO Gas: Energy Blast 2d6 (base 10), No Normal Defense (LS: Self Contained Breathing, holding breath; +1), AoE Radius (+1), Continuous (+1) (active 40), 8 continuing charges lasting 1 turn (-0), STUN Only (-0), OAF (-1) (real 20)

[1u] Tear Gas: Flash 3d6 Smell/Taste Group (base 9), AoE Radius (+1), Continuous (+1) (active 27), 8 continuing charges lasting 1 turn (-0), OAF (-1) (real 14)

[1u] Paint: Transform, Cosmetic (target into brightly colored target, healed back by cleaning), 3d6 (base 15), Partial Transform (+1/2) (active 23), 8 charges (-1/2), OAF (-1) (real 9)

[1u] Smoke Grenades: Darkness to sight group 3" (base/active 30), 8 continuing charges lasting 1 turn (-0), OAF (-1) (real 15)

[1u] Flashbang: Flash, Sight and Hearing Groups, 3d6 (base/active 20), 8 charges (-1/2), OAF (-1) (real 8)

[1u] Images, Sight Group (10), PER Roll +/- 1 (3) (base 13) Increased Size (4" radius; +1/2), 8 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Minute each (+1/2) (active 26), Only to Create Light (-1), OAF (-1), Only Outdoors/High Ceiling (-1/4) (real 8)

[1u] Stink Bomb part 1, Disability: Change Environment, 2" radius (10), -1 DCV, -1 OCV (10) (base/active 20), 8 continuing charges lasting 1 turn (-0), OAF (-1) (real 10)

[1u] Stink Bomb part 2, Smell: Darkness, Smell/Taste Group, 2" radius (base/active 10), 8 continuing charges lasting 1 turn (-0), OAF (-1), Linked (Change Environment; -1/2) (real 4]

 

Backpack-O-Stuff [8]

[8] VPP, 6-point pool (6). Control cost (3), OAF (-1) (2)

[Dust Raven]

Re: Building grenades for a grenade launcher

 

8 Charges Notes: OOOOO OOO [8]

 

Genius!!! And I cannot rep you...

[Edsel]

Re: Building grenades for a grenade launcher

 

That's kind of assuming that you can use those grenades without the launcher' date=' which, in all cases that I know of, you cannot, really. Launcher grenades are different from hand grenades.[/quote']Most of the grenades were bought with a limitation that they required the launcher to work.

[braincraft]

Re: Building grenades for a grenade launcher

 

Most of the grenades were bought with a limitation that they required the launcher to work.

 

In which case it seems odd to do the extra bookkeeping instead of a simple multipower.

[Silbeg]

Re: Building grenades for a grenade launcher

 

Notes: OOOOO OOO

 

So simple, so elegant. Makes you wanna puke, don't it?!

 

Now, the next step would be to create an export template in HD that can take the charges displayed, and parse the "ammo" checkboxes itself.

 

Who'll take that bad-boy on?

[DataPacRat]

Re: Building grenades for a grenade launcher

 

Yes, I'm still fiddling around with this thing off-and-on. Maybe going to end up building a 'tangler' Entangle round, or an EMP one (if I can figure out how exactly an EMP should be built).

 

Decided to make it a Personal Focus, since that's technically feasible even now.

 

Noticed some oddities with the various grenades' various ranges... the KO gas grenade can be fired up to 200" away, but the flashbang only 100". And, even odder, the two halves of the stink bomb have different ranges... any idea which one should apply?

 

 

I'm also thinking of turning all the grenades into 'smart grenades', which can be put into place to be detonated on a radio trigger, or when tampered with (though I haven't quite decided whether to use the +1/4 or +1/2 version of Trigger)... or, even more fun, after a certain time (I'm guessing just +1/4 Time Delay), to give them speakers to recite that classic line, "I am a thirty second bomb! 29, 28..." Can't add them to the KO gas or smoke grenades without increasing the multipower size, unfortunately, but they can be added to all the others without even increasing any of their slot-costs...

 

 

 

40mm Force-pushed Grenade Launcher: [29]

[20] Multipower (40 active pts), OAF (-1), Personal Focus (Magnetic lock: magnetic ring required to fire), Can Only Carry 28 Defined Charges From All The Slots At A Time (-0)

[2u] KO Gas: Energy Blast 2d6 (base 10), No Normal Defense (LS: Self Contained Breathing, holding breath; +1), AoE Radius (+1), Continuous (+1) (active 40, range 200"), 8 continuing charges lasting 1 turn (-0), STUN Only (-0), OAF (-1) (real 20)

[1u] CS Tear Gas (spells like apple blossoms): Flash 3d6 Smell/Taste Group (base 9), AoE Radius (+1), Continuous (+1), Time Delay (+1/4), Trigger (variable, +1/2) (active 29, range 150"), 8 continuing charges lasting 1 turn (-0), OAF (-1) (real 15)

[1u] Paint: Transform, Cosmetic (target into brightly colored target, healed back by cleaning), 3d6 (base 15), Partial Transform (+1/2), Time Delay (+1/4), Trigger (variable, +1/2) (active 34, range 170"), 8 charges (-1/2), OAF (-1) (real 14)

[1u] Smoke Grenades: Darkness to sight group 3" (base/active 30, range 150"), 8 continuing charges lasting 1 turn (-0), OAF (-1) (real 15)

[1u] Flashbang: Flash, Sight and Hearing Groups, 3d6 (base 20), Time Delay (+1/4), Trigger (variable, +1/2) (active 35, range 175"), 8 charges (-1/2), OAF (-1) (real 14)

[1u] Parachute Flare: Images, Sight Group (10), PER Roll +/- 1 (3) (base 13) Increased Size (4" radius; +1/2), 8 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Minute each (+1/2), Time Delay (+1/4), Trigger (variable, +1/2) (active 36, range 180"), Only to Create Light (-1), OAF (-1), Only Outdoors/High Ceiling (-1/4) (real 11)

[1u] Stink Bomb part 1, Disability: Change Environment, 2" radius (10), -1 DCV, -1 OCV (10) (base 20), Trigger (variable, +1/2) (active 30, range 150"), 8 continuing charges lasting 1 turn (-0), OAF (-1) (real 15)

[1u] Stink Bomb part 2, Smell: Darkness, Smell/Taste Group, 2" radius (base 10), Trigger (variable, +1/2) (active 15, range 75"), 8 continuing charges lasting 1 turn (-0), OAF (-1), Linked (Change Environment; -1/2) (real 6)