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Multiple Power attacks????


Tywyll

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One of the aspects of Hero I have had severe difficulty grasping is the idea of Multipe Power attacks. I've read the section multiple times but just don't 'get' it. I don't see why you'd use them over Sweep or Rapid Fire, or just adding Autofire to an attack or linking two attacks. Could some please explain? I'm most interested in its relationship to a FH game, as that's what I use Hero for. A system explination and examples would be most helpful. Thanks!

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Re: Multiple Power attacks????

 

One of the aspects of Hero I have had severe difficulty grasping is the idea of Multipe Power attacks. I've read the section multiple times but just don't 'get' it. I don't see why you'd use them over Sweep or Rapid Fire' date=' or just adding Autofire to an attack or linking two attacks. Could some please explain? I'm most interested in its relationship to a FH game, as that's what I use Hero for. A system explination and examples would be most helpful. Thanks![/quote']

 

 

FH suggests a Spell limitation which prevents, among other things, MPA's.

 

Sweep or Rapid Fire costs you OCV, DCV and a full phase. Autofire costs extra points, and you still have some OCV penalties for extra shots. Two linked attacks are an MPA.

 

Let's assume your magic system requires spellcasters to purchase each spell separately, outside a framework. A Wizard has a Firebolt spell (RKA), a Flash spell (Blinding Flare) and an Exhaustion spell (Drain END). He's paid for all three. Why wouldn't he fire all three off at once, especially at a powerful opponent, in the hopes of ending up with a blind, weakened, wounded opponent, rather than just one of the three?

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Re: Multiple Power attacks????

 

No one in my games has ever bothered to try an MPA (mechanically) so I haven't spent much time thinking about it. What about combining a weapon enchantment and weapon attack as an MPA? For instance: "I cast lightning blade and strike him with my amazing surprise fast-draw attack in an arc of oh-so-lethal razor electrified fury!" (?) It seems like the kind of dramatic flair players go for. Or at least, the kind of thing my players like to be prosy about.

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Re: Multiple Power attacks????

 

But, wouldn't using this turn characters into death-dealing howitzers? I mean, it becomes almost a way to circumvent AP caps, just hitting them with five different powers at max for the game.

 

Of course, those 5 powers better cost 0 END or you're screwed!

 

Rob

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Re: Multiple Power attacks????

 

Well, this is certainly one way to simulate fighting with two weapons when each weapon has different stats and/or effects, which you can't do with Sweep or Rapid Fire. That can include separate spells in fantasy games, separate superpowers in supers games, or separate Martial Arts maneuvers which are mechanically different, such as Strike and Sweep.

 

As Hugh Neilson pointed out, the other methods you mentioned all have mechanical drawbacks which the MPA does not (although it has its own restrictions). I'll just add that while Linked attacks technically do what a MPA does, you can't choose to use one Power that is Linked to another separately.

 

IMO it ultimately comes down to what you feel best simulates the effect you want. Each of these methods has its own mechanical quirks, and the "feel" of each of them will be different. Many HEROphiles love having multiple "official" ways to accomplish the same effect, which is one of the system's features.

 

But, wouldn't using this turn characters into death-dealing howitzers? I mean, it becomes almost a way to circumvent AP caps, just hitting them with five different powers at max for the game.

 

Of course, those 5 powers better cost 0 END or you're screwed!

 

Rob

 

IIRC the rules suggest that a GM may want to set caps in his games as to how many Powers may be combined in a MPA, as he may with the total number of Sweep or Rapid Fire attacks.

 

Of course, sometimes a character's concept happens to be that he is a death-dealing howitzer. :eg:

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Re: Multiple Power attacks????

 

I'm most interested in its relationship to a FH game' date=' as that's what I use Hero for. A system explination and examples would be most helpful. Thanks![/quote']

Imagine a wizard with a wand of fireballs and a wand of lightning, and deciding to shoot them both at the same time, or someone using an amulet of light to temporarily blind some dungeon dwelling creature while at the same time throwing a spear at them. Any time two offensive actions that aren't intrinsically linked can be used at the same time it's probably an MPA. This could even be taken to the mundane items such as throwing a burning lantern and dagger at something at the same time [the effect being they get stabbed by the dagger and set afire by the lantern].

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Re: Multiple Power attacks????

 

But, wouldn't using this turn characters into death-dealing howitzers? I mean, it becomes almost a way to circumvent AP caps, just hitting them with five different powers at max for the game.

 

Of course, those 5 powers better cost 0 END or you're screwed!

 

Rob

 

The GM has to consider that before allowing an MPA, but that's true with Sweep, Rapid Fire, Haymaker, Move Through, and all the many other ways of getting more bang for your buck in a phase. The advantage of allowing them is that you can mix and match powers (within the limits of the rules) to do things like Disarm & Thrust or Blast & Blind very simply. They also allow a certain advantage to characters who buy one or more of their attack powers outside of a framework (as you can't launch an MPA with multiple powers in the same framework). I could see requiring linked or compound powers instead, but I like the flexibility this gives players myself.

 

None of which is as much of a factor in a FH campaign using the Spell limitation (-1/2), as that limit removes the option of using a spell so limited as part of an MPA.

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Re: Multiple Power attacks????

 

In my opinion, if you are using MPA to do more damage then, 1. That's more or less specifically forbidden in the rules, and 2. the GM is letting you get away with too much.

I like MPA for combining interesting combat maneuvers. For example, Disarm and Cover for a very swashbuckling maneuver.

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Re: Multiple Power attacks????

 

Having run FH with Rapid Fire/Sweep and MPA in effect I can tell you they have different applications. There is some GM Optioning associated with MPA, the only aspect of which I require a Full Phase action to perform it (no OCV or DCV penalty aside from the rules of applying the MPA).

 

MPA cannot be used to attack multiple targets, unless of course the powers used have Autofire or AoE.

 

There is only one attack roll associated with MPA, and you apply the worst penalties of all the attacks used (if one maneuver is -2 OCV and +2 DCV and the other is +2 OCV and -2 DCV the whole thing is -2 OCV, -2 DCV).

 

Where do I use it? Monsters and martial artists mostly. Wolf: Grab & Throw (knockdown) and Bite (which is at least an automatic High Shot). Disarming Strike (Martial Strike + Martial Disarm), and so on.

 

As the MPA rules suggest, you shouldn't allow multiple attacks that do damage. You can, and if you do, the STUN does not stack for purposes of stunning.

 

MPA can really create some cool combats, and help simulate some real world attack types (like the wolf or disarming strike).

 

Because it is a Full Phase action I do allow Rapid Attack to reduce it to a Half Phase action provided Rapid Attack is appropriate for all of the attacks (usually not an issue).

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Re: Multiple Power attacks????

 

Well' date=' this is certainly one way to simulate fighting with two weapons when each weapon has different stats and/or effects, which you can't do with Sweep or Rapid Fire. That can include separate spells in fantasy games, separate superpowers in supers games, or separate Martial Arts maneuvers which are mechanically different, such as Strike and Sweep.[/quote']

 

I'm confused... why can't you use different weapons in a Sweep? The fact that Two Weapon fighting suggests Sweep sort of implies otherwise. Did I miss something?

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Re: Multiple Power attacks????

 

If a spell has the "Spell -1/2" lim, it can't be used in Sweep/Rapid Fire or MPA.

 

Where does it say you can't use two weapons with different stats or effects in a sweep? TWF is exactly what that is for.

 

In a heroic game I would not use MPA for two-weapons. If you do that, everyone will do two weapons... there really is no reason not to unless you impose other restrictions.

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Re: Multiple Power attacks????

 

If a spell has the "Spell -1/2" lim, it can't be used in Sweep/Rapid Fire or MPA.

 

Where does it say you can't use two weapons with different stats or effects in a sweep? TWF is exactly what that is for.

 

In a heroic game I would not use MPA for two-weapons. If you do that, everyone will do two weapons... there really is no reason not to unless you impose other restrictions.

 

The basic rules more or less say so, but clarification in the genre books generally say to allow it, as well as suggesting applying Sweep penalties to MPA's if balance proves to be a concern.

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Re: Multiple Power attacks????

 

Hmm, I just read the Combat Handbook and Sweep can apply to any HTH attack, and Rapid Fire to any Ranged Attack. That basically covers all types of Attack Powers in Hero.

 

This means you could Sweep a Drain, since Drain requires a HTH Attack.

 

Even 5ER states it in this way. You can Sweep or Rapid Fire (same maneuver essentially) any attack.

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Re: Multiple Power attacks????

 

Hmm, I just read the Combat Handbook and Sweep can apply to any HTH attack, and Rapid Fire to any Ranged Attack. That basically covers all types of Attack Powers in Hero.

 

This means you could Sweep a Drain, since Drain requires a HTH Attack.

 

Even 5ER states it in this way. You can Sweep or Rapid Fire (same maneuver essentially) any attack.

 

Yes. Adds a whole new layer of terror to NNDs, Drains, Succor and AVLDs if the GM allows it.

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Re: Multiple Power attacks????

 

The basic rules more or less say so' date=' but clarification in the genre books generally say to allow it, as well as suggesting applying Sweep penalties to MPA's if balance proves to be a concern.[/quote']

 

Thank you for clarifying that. Guess I need to sit down with the genre books again. :o

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