Superhuman women and normal women

[Trebuchet]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

I think we can all pretty much agree that most comic book artists are adolescent boys at heart; and therefore their ideal of feminine beauty consists primarily of impressive cleavage. "She has a face?"

 

C'mon! Does anyone here really think John Byrne wasn't drawing nude pictures of Sue Storm and She-Hulk for his personal edification when he handled (and I use the term deliberately) their respective comics.

[Balabanto]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

Actually, I think people usually pay a LOT of money for those sorts of comic book art regardless of who the artist is if they have any talent whatsoever.

["V"]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

It's not always easy living up to Supers...

[Weldun]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

This is actually an element that is in the background of my campaign universe. In it, beyond the full blown supers, there are a number of "lesser supers" that live and work in the world. Many of them apply their abilities to their work or personal lives, such as the electrician who can immediately identify the fault in your electricals because he's sensitive to current flows. Not a power that's particularly usefull to a crime fighting carreer, but it led him to fool around with electronics a little in high school and move on to be an electrician in his working life. This also means that there are men and women who's only "ability" is having PRE and/or COM of superhuman and higher levels. So, in comparison, Superheroes and Supervillains are members of the "beautiful people" set, and still have an influence, but it's mitigated by the top actors and models being able to "compete" on the same level.

 

That being said, Superbeings get a lot of media attention from doing fantastic things, so the still have a significant influence. In effect, the whole Superhero/Supervillain divide has trickled down into the rest of society, creating a polarised morality. While not everything is black and white, there is a greater tendancy towards one end or the other of the various moral spectra.

[Kristopher]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

I've already repped' date=' but I'd like to emphasise this point; if you look at the "ordinary" folk in a Superhero comic, most of [i']them[/i] are good looking with fairly perfect bodies too.

 

It's easier to draw fit people in tight outfits. Fat people and loose clothing require more skill to make look right' date=' especially from panel to panel...[/quote']

 

And many of the artists only know how to draw a handful of bodies.

[Kristopher]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

The "magic ratio" for wiast to hips is 6 to 10...aka 60% Maralyn Monroe had a perfect 6 to 10...and even now shes looked on as The sex symbol...

 

Is that "magic ratio" thing supposed to represent some kind of supposed univeral, or just what will appeal to the most men on average?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

Is that "magic ratio" thing supposed to represent some kind of supposed univeral' date=' or just what will appeal to the most men on average?[/quote']

 

Nothing holds 100% true.

 

But in general that ratio (or thereabouts, I've seen from 60-70% being claimed as the ratio) has been found to be universally attractive across both culture and history.

 

But like I said, nothing is 100% and you can find plenty of people whose idea of attractiveness falls outside that concept.

[casualplayer]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

They have touched on this a time or two in comics. Bloodstone mentioned Bulleteer. John's JSA had Liberty Belle I (the septuagenarian!) receiving a compliment on how she looked and responding that super strength keeps everything where it should be. Voodoo from the Wildcats has admitted that she is enhanced.

 

Supers are attention-craving hyper-active body-proud exhibitionists. Their bodies are their weapon and they polish it obsessively.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

Supers are attention-craving hyper-active body-proud exhibitionists. Their bodies are their weapon and they polish it obsessively.

Not touching that line with a ten-foot cattle prod....

[Karmakaze]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

At least now we have the Question, who manages to fight crime fully dressed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:The_question_2.jpg

[Kristopher]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

Funny thing is, I've never played a character that did the whole full-body spandex thing.

 

Very few people who fight for a living, or train to fight as if they did, wear skin-tight getups. There must be a reason. I don't see any reason to ignore that, and/or limit my characters based on the limited art skills of comic books artists over the years.

[keithcurtis]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

I think we can all pretty much agree that most comic book artists are adolescent boys at heart; and therefore their ideal of feminine beauty consists primarily of impressive cleavage. "She has a face?"

 

C'mon! Does anyone here really think John Byrne wasn't drawing nude pictures of Sue Storm and She-Hulk for his personal edification when he handled (and I use the term deliberately) their respective comics.

 

Actually, he was drawing them for money at conventions.

 

Keith "Which is nothing new or even remotely unique to JB" Curtis

[Balabanto]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

That actually pleases me in some ways and bothers me in others. On the one hand, a hero should stand for moral certainty and that which is right.

 

On the other hand, the Superhero genre is about violence. As such, showing sex in a POSITIVE light is VERY important.

 

The problem is that showing sex for it's own sake has become secondary to storytelling, and it takes away from GOOD plot and GOOD story.

 

If I wanted porn for my 2.50-3.00 a month, I could download it from the internet for free.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

Funny thing is' date=' I've never played a character that did the whole full-body spandex thing.[/quote']Me neither. (I don't count the form-fitting-battlesuit character.)

[casualplayer]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

I think we can all pretty much agree that most comic book artists are adolescent boys at heart; and therefore their ideal of feminine beauty consists primarily of impressive cleavage. "She has a face?"

 

C'mon! Does anyone here really think John Byrne wasn't drawing nude pictures of Sue Storm and She-Hulk for his personal edification when he handled (and I use the term deliberately) their respective comics.

 

There is an alluring sketch of Kitty Pryde in The Art of John Byrne that certainly left an impression considering I still remember it and it's been 20 years since I saw that book. Oh, the shame.

[Korvar]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

Funny thing is, I've never played a character that did the whole full-body spandex thing.

 

Very few people who fight for a living, or train to fight as if they did, wear skin-tight getups. There must be a reason. I don't see any reason to ignore that, and/or limit my characters based on the limited art skills of comic books artists over the years.

 

However, athletes and gymnasts do, so the kind of hero you're dealing with will affect clothing choice.

 

For example, I had a flying speedster (named Flare) who wore a shiny skintight suit very similar to what downhill skiers or speed skaters wear. For that character it seemed very appropriate.

[Kristopher]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

There is an alluring sketch of Kitty Pryde in The Art of John Byrne that certainly left an impression considering I still remember it and it's been 20 years since I saw that book. Oh' date=' the shame. [/quote']

 

And how old would Kitty Pride have been in the books in 1987?

 

Bad Byrne. Bad, bad John Byrne. No bisquit.

[Kristopher]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

However, athletes and gymnasts do, so the kind of hero you're dealing with will affect clothing choice.

 

For example, I had a flying speedster (named Flare) who wore a shiny skintight suit very similar to what downhill skiers or speed skaters wear. For that character it seemed very appropriate.

 

I was sitting here, trying to think of athletes that wear skintight gear, and it took me a second, because I was thinking "Football? Basketball? Soccer? Hockey? Baseball? No...oh yeah...there are other sports!"

[RPMiller]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

This thread got me to wondering... if superpowers were genetic and had been around forever, I wonder if, just for the fact that the DNA was part of the human condition, everyone would have a little of that superhero physique in them. That could be used to explain why so many in the comics tend to look 'above average'. Of course, I don't expect this to be the reason for the drawings being the way they are or that the writers even considered this, but it could be a reasonable excuse in a campaign setting.

 

If this was indeed the case, then I would suspect the impact of the SuperHero appearance would be reduced and the social impact would be no different then what we are seeing in marketing today.

 

Hmm... I wonder what the historical impact would be as well.

[keithcurtis]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

And how old would Kitty Pride have been in the books in 1987?

 

Bad Byrne. Bad, bad John Byrne. No bisquit.

Actually, it was an adult woman with Kitty Pryde's hair style. May have been a coincidence, a lack of hairstyles, a doodle or a future Kitty.

 

Keith "just to set the record straight" Curtis

[wylodmayer]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

Funny thing is' date=' I've never played a character that did the whole full-body spandex thing.[/quote']

 

Heh - many, if not most, of mine do, but I actually turned it into a subplot point once, for a character who had no powers to keep her superhumanly trim and svelte. She was constantly concerned about the form fitting uniform, but it never occurred to her to not wear one, because that would have been admitting defeat!

 

Very few people who fight for a living, or train to fight as if they did, wear skin-tight getups. There must be a reason. I don't see any reason to ignore that, and/or limit my characters based on the limited art skills of comic books artists over the years.

 

Ehhh... that would actually kind of bother me, if it was in one of my games. Heck, there's no reason for a villain to use his hyper intellect to build robots to rob banks when he can just set up a hyper-effective credit card phishing scam. But he does anyway. It's in genre. Just like skin tight suits. This goes back to the discussion in another thread, but I am a firm believer that in some instances, you just do stuff because it's genre-appropriate, not for any other reason.

["V"]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

Why skin tight costumes?

 

Artists learn to draw human bodies nude to learn anatomy. Add a few lines & insignia to a nude body, get it coloured & hey presto: easy costume.

 

Having to draw fabric, folds, lots of accessories etc is more complex.

 

I really believe the "skin tight costume" trope came about through the need for speedy production of artwork for the industry.

[OddHat]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

Why skin tight costumes?

 

Artists learn to draw human bodies nude to learn anatomy. Add a few lines & insignia to a nude body, get it coloured & hey presto: easy costume.

 

Having to draw fabric, folds, lots of accessories etc is more complex.

 

I really believe the "skin tight costume" trope came about through the need for speedy production of artwork for the industry.

 

Yup, though there's also the fact that wrestlers, strongmen, gymnasts and circus acrobats were all popular inspirations for characters in the golden age, and all wore skimpy or skin tight outfits. Fit people generally like to show off their bodies, and for an entertainer it can be his or her bread and butter.

 

Justifying it in game is a bit harder. I don't require that PCs wear skin tight outfits, and usually just shrug off comments about those that do with "It's fashion, and it's marketable". Makes as much sense as anything else in a Superhero world.

[wylodmayer]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

Justifying it in game is a bit harder. I don't require that PCs wear skin tight outfits' date=' and usually just shrug off comments about those that do with "It's fashion, and it's marketable". Makes as much sense as anything else in a Superhero world.[/quote']

 

Well, "The Incredibles" certainly gave us reason to avoid capes, although Alan Moore did it first (albeit less humorously) when Nite Owl recounts how Dollar Bill died in the excerpts from "Under the Hood."

 

The skintight thing isn't completely insane, of course - it reduces what there is to grab onto. For people who get into scuffles on a regular basis, this is a concern. And, it's easier to conceal under clothes or in a briefcase or something. Again, legitimate concerns - a skintight leotard can be bunched into an incredibly small space, and - once your regular clothes are off - is pretty quick to don.

 

However, to qualify my earlier comments, I don't require that heroes in my games wear spandex, but I do want them (unless it's a much more realistic game) to wear costumes of some sort. There's some variety in that - look at Captain Metropolis, Hooded Justice, Silhouette, and Rorschach from Watchmen, or even Hank Pym's later jumpsuit, Ghost Rider's bike leathers, and many of Wasp's costumes. They're still costume-y, more or less.

[Karmakaze]

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

 

However' date=' to qualify my earlier comments, I don't require that heroes in my games wear spandex, but I do want them (unless it's a much more realistic game) to wear costumes of some sort. There's some variety in that - look at Captain Metropolis, Hooded Justice, Silhouette, and Rorschach from Watchmen, or even Hank Pym's later jumpsuit, Ghost Rider's bike leathers, and many of Wasp's costumes. They're still costume-y, more or less.[/quote']

 

Did you see "My Super Ex-Girlfriend"? Her outfits were an interesting mix of costume and clubgear.