Worst. Hero. Ever.

[assault]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

And Toyman' date=' and the Prankster...[/quote']

 

You beat me to it.

 

Superman has his fair share of theme villains. There isn't a hard separation between the types of opponents Batman fights and those Superman fights. Nor should there be.

 

At least some of the Superman-hate seems to be related to the idea of the character more than the reality. It raises the question of what the Superman-haters think of Captain Marvel...

[Catacomb]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

I submit that Superman isn't even a hero. That word insinuates doing something despite the harm that may befall you. With the exception of Doomsday that harm just doesn't happen to Superman.

 

So he can't be the lamest superhero I suppose. In that light, my vote goes to Aquaman.

[assault]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

I submit that Superman isn't even a hero. That word insinuates doing something despite the harm that may befall you. With the exception of Doomsday that harm just doesn't happen to Superman.

 

I submit that you should actually read the source material before spouting nonsense about it.

 

For starters, you could read the Superman story I posted a link to earlier in the thread. That's what he is like when he loses his powers. He's a hero without them, and he's a hero with them.

 

Incidentally, what do you think about Captain Marvel?

[Catacomb]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Writers caveat. Superman's only appeal is his place in line. He's one step away from a comic book ABOUT deus ex machina and its pretty sad.

[assault]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

The fact is that over the past 70 years, Superman has done more than enough heroic self-sacrifice, dealing with tragedy and going into danger to qualify him as a hero many times over.

 

Yes, bad writers can turn him into a ridiculous caricature, and they have. Handled by people who know what makes him tick, he's just fine.

 

In that respect, he's like Batman. Batman can be treated as a psycho, or as a hero. Unfortunately, the former has been the case far too often in relatively recent times.

 

Aquaman, on the other hand, has a long history of cheesiness... That could have been avoided, but it usually wasn't.

 

EDIT/PS: Incidentally, comparing either Superman or Aquaman with insane pieces of hackwork like Super Green Beret is completely over the top. You couldn't write a good Super Green Beret story if you tried. Nobody could. The character is 100% pure suck.

[wylodmayer]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Right on, assault. I'd rep you if I could.

 

There've been plenty of stories about Superman losing his powers or going up against people who really can hurt him. His heroism is well established in that respect.

 

And beyond that, there's more to heroism than running the risk of physical danger. There's moral heroism, the courage displayed by someone who has to face up to tough choices, to the limits of his abilities. The heroism of not succumbing to cynicism and a simplistic, short sighted approach to life. Read Paul Dini's Superman story illustrated by Alex Ross (the name escapes me) among many others (like Alan Moore's "For The Man Who Has Everything").

 

That's always been Superman's appeal. He didn't take off (as it were) as an icon until he became super-powerful, because as a super-powerful character, he had to be likewise portrayed as an intensely moral character. Whether this was a conscious choice by the writers or not, I don't know, but it was a smart one - the only way that people would be comfortable with someone of his immense power. Superman's real super power has always been his moral discernment, and the real drama of the character is not in his struggles with villains, but (when well written) in struggles to do what needs to be done, to make the right choices, and to not lose faith and heart. To face evil while trying to remain not only a good guy, but still a clear-eyed, good hearted farm boy from Middle America. To be Superman.

 

I honestly think that Miller's Batman, for this kind of reason, is one of the worst superheroes. Like assault said, Batman can be portrayed with depth and conscience, which is exactly the opposite of how Miller painted him. Don't get me wrong - Dark Knight is a gripping story, and I've read it more often than I can count. But in the final analysis, Batman is, in that comic, criminally self righteous, a fascistic narcissist whose confidence in his own moral purity borders on the villainous.

 

I mean, Superman needs confidence in what he does, too, but he has the good grace to show doubt - that's the crux of the character. He's an enormously powerful being who is never totally sure that he - or any person - deserves that much power. He's always cautious about what he should do with that power. And what bothers him - and me - about Bruce is that the Dark Knight knows exactly how he would use that power.

 

I think Batman can be well written, and he needn't be especially angst ridden to do it, although with his background it's sometimes unavoidable. I think "Hush" did a decent job of dealing with some of Batman's doubts, some of his concerns over who "the Batman" really is. It's too bad Miller never thought to write that story, because he would have written it much better. But I liked it, overall.

[Catacomb]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Hey, all of you Superman fans. Thor wanted me to relay a message.

 

"Methinks thou dost protest too much."

[Kenn]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Hey, all of you Superman fans. Thor wanted me to relay a message.

 

"Methinks thou dost protest too much."

 

Physician, heal thyself.

[bwdemon]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

I'll stick to characters who've stood the test of time and remain, for some reason or another, popular. Superman is overpowered and, because of it, could be considered boring. Punisher doesn't fit well into his setting and shouldn't be hanging around with superheroes, regardless. Still, both are better than Cable, right?

 

Cable is a mess of a character with no real redeeming value. He's a monument to how screwed up continuity and characters can get when editors don't - or aren't allowed to - do their job. And he's still in the comics! They should've killed him off or sent him back to whenever he came from years ago so that people would forget him. Instead, he worms his way into the books, time and again. Blech...

[TheRealVector]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

I'll stick to characters who've stood the test of time and remain' date=' for some reason or another, popular. Superman is overpowered and, because of it, could be considered boring. Punisher doesn't fit well into his setting and shouldn't be hanging around with superheroes, regardless. Still, both are better than [b']Cable[/b], right?

 

Cable is a mess of a character with no real redeeming value. He's a monument to how screwed up continuity and characters can get when editors don't - or aren't allowed to - do their job. And he's still in the comics! They should've killed him off or sent him back to whenever he came from years ago so that people would forget him. Instead, he worms his way into the books, time and again. Blech...

 

 

Yes, death to Cable...then Superman.

[AdamLeisemann]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

I still agree that Super Green Beret, despite his short run, is still the worst, with total stupidity in every panel.

 

Actually, that might be a fun advertising line. "100% total stupidity in every panel!"

[SKJAM!]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Imagine someone releasing a movie like that in this country!

 

 

From the synopsis I've seen, the movie had relatively little--you know--and was mostly about Rapeman going undercover to investigate a dangerous cult (though of course he used his special skill to save the day at the end.)

 

Still, yeah. Watch the metaphorical lynch mobs form.

[input.jack]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Superman can be found at his best in the Max Fleischer cartoons, which can be bought for a dollar (6-8 cartoons for a buck) at Wal-Mart.

 

As a regular series, well, that's where superman has problems. While a less powerful character has more milage, people only seem to see one thing in Supes: Power. He gets the occasional good writer who can see more than that, but that's not often.

 

Try the DCAU "Superman animated series" produced by Bruce Timm and company. Its a -very- good series, and they hit a lot of "Fleischer buttons", and intentionally so.

 

I own the whole series on DVD. Try it!

 

In fact, the animated series was the inspiration for me to play Guardian Alpha in a friend's HERO campaign. Hes like "Supes at 18", and the son of the actual Superman=homage for the campaign, Guardian.

 

Guardian and the rest of the Freedom league went missing, and new heroes stepped up to fill the void. One of them was Guardian's son, who wears a costume identical to guardians and calls himself Guardian ALpha (because Guardian Junior?!? GAKK!)

 

Its been a -really- cool experience. Its the first time Ive gotten to play someone whow as -really- on that scale. His base STR is about 55, but he cam pump it up to 70 if thats what hes concentrating on (in other words, thats where his Multipower is allocated). He also has additional strength for lifting and "slow exertion tasks" like pushing and dragging. He can eventually manage to lift about 14 MILLION tons! (Each 15 STR over 70 requires more and more time to activate. The final level requires a full minute of exertion). He has the enhanced senses, FTL flight, life support, and so on. His PD and ED are 28 (campaign max is set at 30), 25 resistant and hardened. He has a 14 PD Invisible Forcewall he can erect around himself if he spends endurance from his battery and operates at 1/2 DCV. He also has 100 Stun.

 

The write-up makes him function a lot like the animated Superman. He can be Stunned by a big enough attack, especially if hes taken by surprise, caught while concentrating on something else, or hit with an energy weapon. He is -very- hard to put down, but it can (and HAS) been done, several times.

 

I gave him the Nebraska farm-boy outlook and background because..you know...I wanted to play a HERO, and someoen with that powerset who isnt well disciplined can easily fall to the "dark side".

 

Its been a very interesting ride. Ive got a lot more espect for Supes than I did before, now that Ive flown a light-year in his boots. Its true; one of GA's main limitations is that he -cant- be in two places at once. Last session, the PCs were in an underwater facility -very- much like youd see in a Bond film (minions in green jumpsuits with white belts, gloves, boot spats, and plastic construction helmets! Zowie!). The master villain had decided to disconnect the walkways between the three "pods" of the Base, which was clustered at the bottom of the framework for a deep-water drilling platform (using the platform's drilling as cover to hide the noise of the base). The three sections were filling with water, and to make matters worse, the reactor was going critical.

 

Guardian Alpha managed to move the three sections of the base up the framework, slowly enough to avoid giving everyone inside a lethal case of the bends, and quickly enough to prevent the pressure from flooding the compartments. It took him about an hour.

 

Meanwhile, Troubleshooter, who was in a deep-pressure hardsuit, had felt the need to enter the core of the reactor himself, in order to prevent the whole thing from going nova.

 

So, I get back to my friends and find them clustered around Troubleshooter. My best friend.

 

Who is now dying of radiation poisoning.

 

Because I HAD to raise the base sections. No one else COULD have. Not even an option.

 

And the reactor had to be dealt with right then, or everyone (but me) dies.

 

See, the threat to Superman isnt necessarily involved with his own mortality. Its the lives of those around him. Guardian Alpha feels -responsible- for people hes never met. He takes an afternoon off now and then, but he hasnt -slept- in about two months now. He makes sure he does a world circuit at least every three days. He helps with fires, flood, earthquake relief, whatever he can do. His friends make him take time off or else he'll go crazy.

 

There are also the little things. See that -scorching- hot blonde over there? Imagine youre a teenaged, red-blooded American boy. You really want to see what she looks like naked.

 

And you CAN.

 

But you DONT.

 

Willpower.

 

Doing the Right Thing is HARD. And thats whats admirable about Superman.

 

His powers make everything potentially easy.

 

His ethics make them very, very hard.

[assault]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Its been a -really- cool experience. Its the first time Ive gotten to play someone whow as -really- on that scale.

 

Well, show us the write-up....

 

Doing the Right Thing is HARD. And thats whats admirable about Superman.

 

His powers make everything potentially easy.

 

His ethics make them very, very hard.

 

Yep. Repped.

[input.jack]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Here are GA's powers. I cant claim credit for the write-up; my roomate Tom is the architect behind them.

 

The Powers themselves are all Ive got on computer; his actual character sheet (Stats, skills, etc) is hand-written. Important to know is that his base STR, DEX, and CON without the Powers are all 16's. His base PD/ED without the Powers is 6/6. He has 50 END and 40 Stun without the Powers.

 

He is also 600 points + 62 XP's. (The game hes's in is high points, but on the same stat scale as the rest of our campaigns, which I have described elsewhere).

 

Guardian Alpha’s Power Writeup

20 pts Elemental Control: Kinetic Manipulation, 60 pt EC – Doesn’t work near Xenonite (-1/4), Loses 5 active

pts/day w/o sunlight or intense radiation (-1/4)

 

16 pts (60) a. +40 STR – No END Cost (+1/2) – Costs END from BATT at 0 or less Body (-1/4). (50 metric tons / 55 US tons)

 

20 pts (61) b. +3 DEX, +10 CON, +5 BOD – & Damage Resistance 25 PD/25 ED

 

20 pts (60) c. +10 PRE, +14 PD & +20 ED, +5 REC, Hardened DR (PD only)

 

21 pts (61) d. Hardened PD, +55 STUN

 

34 pts (94) f. Flight: 21”, position shift, x2 non-combat (63 mph / 55 knots), usable underwater (+1/4), IPE (Sight & Hearing groups) SFX only (+1/4), 0 END cost (+1/2) – Costs END from battery at 0 or less BODY (-1/4).

 

8 pts (60) g. Endurance Reserve (500 END / 10 REC) – Slow REC: 5 minutes (-1), Recovers only in sunlight or intense radiation (-1/4), Recovers 1/hour in overcast day or light radiation (-1/4).

 

 

 

19 pts (29) Nigh Full Life Support (everything except high radiation) – Doesn’t work around Xenonite (-1/4), Loses 5 active pts/day w/o sunlight or intense radiation (-1/4).

 

4 pts (5) Life Support against high radiation – Doesn’t work around Xenonite (-1/4)

 

6 pts (20) Knockback Resistance: 10 pts – Costs END every phase (-1/2), Doesn’t work around Xenonite (-1/4), Loses 5 active pts/day w/o sunlight or intense radiation (-1/4), Concentration: ½ DCV throughout (-1/2), Cannot Brace with STR (-1/4), 180-degree arc (-1/2), Not if Stunned (-1/4).

 

10 pts (34) Knockback Resistance -17" -- Doesn’t work around Xenonite (-1/4), Loses 5 active pts/day w/o sunlight or intense radiation (-1/4), Only as much as unused Flight (-1/2), 180-degree arc (-1/2), Not if Stunned (-1/4), Only vs attacks he's aware of (-1/4), Gets used up (-1/2).

 

13 pts (20) Regeneration: 2 BODY – Doesn’t work around Xenonite (-1/4), Loses 5 act. pts/day w/o sunlight/Rads (-1/4).

3 pts (6) +3 DEX Levels – Dependent on Super Speed (-1/2), Only for Initiative purposes (-1/4), Doesn’t work around Xenonite (-1/4), Loses 5 active pts/day w/o sunlight or intense radiation (-1/4).

 

 

 

 

42 pts (75) Multipower (85 pt Reserve) – “Power Focusing” – Doesn’t work around Xenonite (-1/4), Loses 5 active pts/day w/o sunlight or intense radiation (-1/4), EGO roll to change and x2 END at 0 or less BODY (-1/2). END Cost

 

2 pts m (15) “Super Strength” – STR: +15 (400 metric tons / 440 US tons) – No fig’d stats (-1/2) 2end

 

1 pt u (53) “Kinetic Punch” – Double Knockback on a 70 Strength 5end

 

2 pts u (80) “Penetrating Punch” – HtH Attack: 8d6, AP (x2) – Extra Segment (-1/2), ½ DCV (-1/4).(20d6 total) (“F**k you, and your Star Destroyer too”) 8end

 

2 pts u (80) “Gift Wrap” – Entangle: 8d6, 8 DEF – OIF (appropriate materials of opportunity -1/2), No Range

(-1/2), Extra Time: Full Phase (-1/2), Defense depends on material (-1/2).

 

2 pts u (75) “Thunderclap” – Energy Blast (Physical): 8 1/2D6, Explosion (+1/2), Personal Immunity (+1/4). Gestures (-1/2), No range (-1/2). 7end

 

2 pts u (69) “Shockwave” – Energy Blast (Physical): 5D6, Area Effect: 10” Cone (+1), Double KB (+3/4). No range (-1/2), Must strike a surface (-1/4), Cone only extends as far as surface does (-1/4). 7end

 

2 pts u (50) “Super Drill” – Tunneling: 10” through 10 DEF. 5end

 

1 pt u (10) “Quick Change” – Instant Change: 10 pts. Costs END (-1/2), Must have the clothes on hand (-1 ½). 1end

 

1 pt u (30) “Super Speed” – Invisibility: Sight, Hearing, & Smell/Taste Groups. Dependent on bonus Flight

(-1/2), Last 1 segment only (-1/2), Not against people w/6+ SPD (-1/4). 3end

 

2 pts u (60) “Super-Speed Actions (Version 1)” -+12 with Agility Skills, Only to Counteract Time Modifier (-1), Costs Endurance (-1/2) (Allows a one hour task to be done in one Turn, or a 20 minute task to be done in one second) 6end

 

2 pts u (60) “Super-Speed Actions (Version 2)” –Change Environment 8” Radius (Perform Chores), Long Lasting (Until effects are counteracted by daily living), Varying Effect (+1/2), No Range (-1/2) 6end

 

2 pts u (43) “Combat Flight Burst” – Flight: +8” w/Combat ACC/DCC on 30” of Flight & +2 Levels w/Flight (2 pts ea.) & +2 Levels w/Full Move maneuvers (3 pts ea.) – Levels costs END every phase (-1/2) 5end

 

2 pts u (50) “Super Flight” – Flight: +10”, 32x Non-Combat Mult. (1,488 mph), Reduced Endurance to 0 (+1/2) 0

 

2 pts u (55) “Hyper Flight” – Flight: 10”, Megascale: 7500 mph / 3000 mph sustained (+1/4), Reduced END to ½ (+1/4) & Targeting Touch, Megascale (+1/4), Only to perceive when flying at megascale speeds (-1). 1end

 

2 pts u (20) “Space Travel” – FTL Movement: 216 LY/Day (100,000 x C). Costs END (-1/2). 2end

 

5 pts m (55) “Super-Swimming” –Swimming 30”, 8x Non-Combat Multiple (360 mph/ 314 knots), Reduced Endurance to 0 (+1/2)

 

2 pts u (74) “Invulnerability Aura” – Force Wall: 14 PD (2” wide, 1” tall), IPE: Sight & Hearing Groups (+3/4), Hardened (+1/4). No range (-1/2), Self only (-1/2), 1/2 DCV throughout use (-1/2). 7end

 

2 pts u (74) “Redirect Kinetics” – Missile Deflection: any missile, reflection, reflect at any target & +12 Missile Deflection Levels – Physical Effects only (-1), Costs END (-1/2). 7end

 

1 pt u (26) “Bullet Catching” – Missile Deflection: Bullets & shrapnel, Ranged (adjacent hex) (+1/2) – Costs END to activate (-1/4). +2 to Levels w/Missile Deflection. 2

 

2 pts u (75) “Surge Recovery” – Aid (STUN): 7 1/2D6. Only to starting value (-1/2), Self only (-1/2), Full phase action (-1/2), Costs END (-1/2). 7end

 

7 pts m (75) “Atomic Vision!” – Energy Blast (ED-Heat): 15D6. 7end

 

2 pts u (75) “Heat Vision” – Energy Blast (ED-Heat): 15d6. No Knockback (-1/2)

 

1 pt u (30) “See Through Walls” N-Ray Vision (not through lead) – ½ DCV throughout (-1/2).

 

4 pts m (45) “Enhanced Vision” Telescopic x1000, Active UV Vision, IR Vision– ½ DCV throughout (-1/2).

 

3 pts m (45) “Micro-Vision” Microscopic Vision x10,000– ½ DCV throughout (-1/2).

 

3 pts m (35) “Enhanced Hearing” Ultrasonic Hearing, Parabolic Hearing x1000– ½ DCV throughout (-1/2).

 

2 pts m (20) “Discriminatory Senses” Discriminatory Smell, Refined Taste, Delicate Touch, Discriminatory Touch

 

1 pt m (18) “Keen Senses” Enhanced Perception +6– ½ DCV throughout (-1/2).

 

2 pts u (50) “Freeze Breath” –Entangle 4d6 (6 DEF); Vulnerable to Fire/ Heat (-1) 5

 

3 pts u (70) “Blow Away” –Telekinesis 30 STR, Area Effect Cone (+1), Controlled Continuous (+1/2), Only to Push Things Away (-2)- ½ DCV throughout (-1/2) 7end

 

3 pts u (72) “Blow Clear/ Big Inhale” –Dispel Gas/Smoke/Mist Powers 8d6; all Gas/Smoke/Mist Powers simultaneously (+2)- ½ DCV (-1/4) 7end

 

3 pts u (72) “Blow Out” –Dispel Fire Powers 8d6; all Fire Powers simultaneously (+2), ½ DCV (-1/4) 7end

 

1 pt u (70?) “Super Shout” –Images to Hearing Group, +8 to Per Rolls, Increase Size 4” Radius (+1/2), Mega-Scale (1 inch = 1 Km) (+1/4), Not in a Vacuum (-1/4), No Range (-1/2), Set Effect: Only to Amplify Own Voice (-2) 7?

 

1 pt u (15) “If I Keep Trying Harder I Can Lift It”: STR +15 (3,200 metric tons) – No fig’d stats (-1/2), Delayed Action: One Segment (-1/4)

 

1 pt u (15) “If I Keep Trying Harder I Can Lift It”: STR +15 (25,600 metric tons) – No fig’d stats (-1/2), Delayed Action: One Phase (-1/2), Only for Slow-Exertion Tasks (-1/4)

 

1 pt u (15) “If I Keep Trying Harder I Can Lift It”: STR +15 (204,800 metric tons) – No fig’d stats (-1/2), Delayed Action: One Turn (-3/4), Only for Slow-Exertion Tasks (-1/4)

 

1 pt u (15) “If I Keep Trying Harder I Can Lift It”: STR +15 (1,638,400 metric tons !!) – No fig’d stats (-1/2), Delayed Action: One Minute (-1), Only for Slow-Exertion Tasks (-1/4)

[assault]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Here are GA's powers.

 

Interesting.

 

20 pts Elemental Control: Kinetic Manipulation, 60 pt EC – Doesn’t work near Xenonite (-1/4), Loses 5 active pts/day w/o sunlight or intense radiation (-1/4)

...

20 pts (61) b. +3 DEX, +10 CON, +5 BOD – & Damage Resistance 25 PD/25 ED

 

20 pts (60) c. +10 PRE, +14 PD & +20 ED, +5 REC, Hardened DR (PD only)

 

21 pts (61) d. Hardened PD, +55 STUN

 

Hmm... I'm not a huge fan of this kind of thing. Oh well - it's not my campaign.

 

Now, what do I have in this point range...

[wrestlinggeek]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Have any of you ever read "JLA: Foreign Bodies?" Several Leaguers end up switching bodies as a result of an attack by Kobra. Batman ends up in Superman's body, and talks about how tempting his powers are. Superman ends up in Kobra's body, and Kobra ends up in Batman's body, pretending to be Superman. Eventually, Superman (without any powers) figures out a way to get a signal out of Kobra's compound that Batman can pick up with his newly-acquired super-hearing. Superman (still without powers), later fights one-on-one against one of the DCU's greatest martial artists, who is in Batman's body. Proves there's more to Clark than powers. He's intelligent, brave, and determined. And he puts himself on the line to beat the bad guy. Sounds like a hero to me.

[Clonus]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

I submit that Superman isn't even a hero. That word insinuates doing something despite the harm that may befall you.

 

The fact that Superman doesn't run into opponents who can cause him physical harm on an everyday basis doesn't mean he never runs into opponents who can cause him physical harm. Even in the old days he ran into into enough opponents packing kryptonite or magic or Mongul's bulging "Kryptonians are wimps" muscles to ensure that his career wasn't entirely risk-free. And of course to me "hero" merely implies admirability. While putting your life on the line to save others is certainly one way to be admirable, a guy who on a day to day basis saves thousands of lives just because he can and doesn't abuse the power that lets him do that, is admirable to me even if he never runs into anything that can pose a threat to him.

[Weldun]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

I still agree that Super Green Beret, despite his short run, is still the worst, with total stupidity in every panel.

 

Actually, that might be a fun advertising line. "100% total stupidity in every panel!"

Ask, and you shall recieve.

[Vestnik]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Have any of you ever read "JLA: Foreign Bodies?" Several Leaguers end up switching bodies as a result of an attack by Kobra. Batman ends up in Superman's body' date=' and talks about how tempting his powers are. Superman ends up in Kobra's body, and Kobra ends up in Batman's body, pretending to be Superman. Eventually, Superman (without any powers) figures out a way to get a signal out of Kobra's compound that Batman can pick up with his newly-acquired super-hearing. Superman (still without powers), later fights one-on-one against one of the DCU's greatest martial artists, who is in Batman's body. Proves there's more to Clark than powers. He's intelligent, brave, and determined. And he puts himself on the line to beat the bad guy. Sounds like a hero to me.[/quote']

 

So, not only is he superstrong, superfast, can fly, has heat-ray vision and superbreath etc. etc. etc., he can also go up against a super-class martial artist.

 

Doesn't sound munchkiny to me, nope, not at all.

[Tigereye]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

So, not only is he superstrong, superfast, can fly, has heat-ray vision and superbreath etc. etc. etc., he can also go up against a super-class martial artist.

 

Doesn't sound munchkiny to me, nope, not at all.

 

Normally, I'd agree with you, but he's not an RPG character- he's the prototype for all superheroes who have come thereafter, either in homage, criticism, or response. Or, maybe to put it another way- if you had been playing the same character continuously since the late freaking 1930's, you'd probably have a pretty powerful character too...just think for how long ol' Clark has been around, in one form or another!

 

I've seen write-ups for Supes using 4th Ed. Champs in the 1,500 points+ range...sounds pretty un-munchkiny for a guy who chronologically speaking should be in his late eighties, and who has been in the superhero biz more or less continually for more than 60 of those years.

 

Never mind that he's an alien; he considers himself to be an American anyway, and I do believe he was declared in an issue that he was declared a legal alien with refugee status. (After all, his homeworld was blown up. Kind of a sucky disadvantage to be the last of your kind.)

 

Also, the version has ebbed and flowed with the times. The one in the 1960s through mid-Eighties strayed well into the "Campy Zone"...but the early Superman was much less powerful, and the current one, although certainly very rude, is not the "power of the week" of the one from just 30 years before. Gotta hand it to Byrne for that.

[Badger]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Yeah, I kind of remember him in the Superfriend era. Having the world in his hands (literally). Didnt somebody figure out the STR needed to lift the Earth a while ago? Though, the Superfriends vrsion's INT was 5 (if that) Not the brightest bulb on the team. (though if we render Hanna and Barbera unconcious and let others do it, he has shown pretty good INT)

[assault]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

I've seen write-ups for Supes using 4th Ed. Champs in the 1' date='500 points+ range...[/quote']

 

I did a 3000 point version back in the 80s, based on his writeup in the first edition Mayfair DC RPG. That is, pre-Crisis.

 

A lot of stuff would work out cheaper now, but I would probably spend even more points on power tricks. 4000 points?

 

Of course that's not counting his base, robots, vehicles and followers. Buying Kryptonians as followers is expensive.

 

6000 points wouldn't be unlikely.

[OddHat]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Yeah' date=' I kind of remember him in the Superfriend era. Having the world in his hands (literally). Didnt somebody figure out the STR needed to lift the Earth a while ago? Though, the Superfriends vrsion's INT was 5 (if that) Not the brightest bulb on the team. (though if we render Hanna and Barbera unconcious and let others do it, he has shown pretty good INT)[/quote']

 

And the kids of today will remember the DCAU Wimpy Superman getting his ass kicked by, well, more or less everyone.

 

I grew up reading the 70s and 80s Superman, who was the Earth's most powerful superhero but who regularly met foes just as or more powerful. Then came the late 1980s and early 1990s, when I stopped reading most Marvel and DC, but when Supes had been given a major power downgrade. Along the way I read re-prints of good chunks of the 40s, 50s, 60s and pre-war Superman.

 

I watched reruns of the original black and white Superman TV series as a kid, listened to replays of the radio series on WCAU 1210 am, and enjoyed the first two Reeve's films. In the films his opponents come close to killing him repeatedly. In the TV show and on the radio, he did outclass his foes.

 

The "He never meets anyone who's a threat" complaint comes from people who've never followed the character.

 

My favorite Superman is a mix of the 70s version and the early Golden Age supes. When he started out, the stories were lifted straight from Gladiator, Doc Savage, the Shadow and the Spider, and the pulp energy really showed. Plenty of fighting crooked politicians, corrupt business owners and war profiteers then as well, for those who complain that Supes is too conservative a hero. The 60s and 70s versions were full of camp and high weirdness, but there were some touching stories and some great sci fi in that period as well. Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes came out of Superman's titles, as well as Supergirl, Powergirl, and a good chunk of the tropes that continue to define the genre.

 

Claiming that he's "unpopular" is eye rollingly silly. He's the most recognizable superhero in the world today, closely followed by Spider Man and Batman. Still, even if he were unpopular, he'd still remain The Superhero.

[input.jack]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

And the kids of today will remember the DCAU Wimpy Superman getting his ass kicked by, well, more or less everyone.

 

Well, that was only in Season One Justice League. Bruce Timm and company got the message and changed things later on.