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Worst. Hero. Ever.


Weldun
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Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

When Lobo first appeared I really liked him. He was a completely different character back when he showed up in Omega Men, JLI, and the begining of L.E.G.I.O.N..

 

He started out as a slim, quiet man who killed with his hands because it more enjoyable who had a very scary noir style about him.

 

But then something happened to the character.

 

And he changed into to a huge miscle-bound raving psycho with a chain and hook who doesn't care how his victim's die as long as it is gory. He also somehow grew about 8 inches talled between his first appearance in 1983 and his first self-titled mini-series in 1990.

 

If you can find some scans of this early Lobo, I'd like to see them!

 

The muscle-bound raving psycho we know and (sometimes) love was Keith Giffen's attempt to send up the X-TREEM trends of the 90s. Unsurprisingly, perhaps, its targeted audience didn't get the joke...

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Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Actually I don't like any of those characters' date=' except when they're in the Legion of Super-Heroes. My LSH standards are quite a bit different from my normal standards. As in, the LSH are just not meant to be taken seriously.[/quote']

 

Am I missing something? None of those characters except Mon-El and occasionally Supergirl are LSH. Do you mean JLA, or is there a memo I didn't get?

 

Oh, and input.jack and OzMike... I'd totally rep you guys right now if I could.

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Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Yes I watched the animated series, and no it was nowhere near as good as Batman The Animated Series. Superman was still a character with little depth or personality, and too much raw power. Yes he can still do whatever, whenever it is needed: Hi, he's still the strongest, fastest(A brick that can beat The Flash in a race, he did that in the Animated Series btw.), most invulnerable brick, with both fire and ice energy projection and the ability to fly on top of his alien technology gadget pool.

 

C'mon, you can like him all you want, that's fine. To me though, and to alot of comic fans out there, he's just a lame leftover from a long gone era who's real draw is nastalgia appeal.

 

I'm not the only person who thinks he's the worst superhero ever either. There's a long line of guys who think like me, and no, we're not newly indoctrinated comic book fans who just started reading during the age of Liefield and Lee as someone tried to say earlier. As I've stated, you want to like him, like him, but this thread is not about who you like, its about the Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

I think it is Supes.

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Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Speaking as a moderator:

 

Rule One: Respect Others. Do NOT directly insult fellow board members or their family members or ANYTHING about them personally. It is fine to disagree but DO NOT attack other board members directly or personally. Do not threaten other board members. Disregard for this rule will result in serious disciplinary action.

 

Further action on this matter is under discussion, but for now, chill, eh?

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Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

If you can find some scans of this early Lobo, I'd like to see them!

 

The muscle-bound raving psycho we know and (sometimes) love was Keith Giffen's attempt to send up the X-TREEM trends of the 90s. Unsurprisingly, perhaps, its targeted audience didn't get the joke...

Here are pics that I was able to find without digging out my old issues of Omega Men, JLI, or L.E.G.I.O.N...

 

His first appearence:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Omegamen_03.jpg

 

L.E.G.I.O.N.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Legion90.png

http://www.lobobrasil.com.br/imagens/enciclopedia/versus_valor.jpg

 

JLI:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c334/doctorvscans/JLI19/JLI19LoboGuyfight1.jpg

 

Pay close attention to the diolauge in this pic, the contrast between the old and the new Lobo isn't just his looks...

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c334/doctorvscans/JLI19/JLI19LoboGuyfight2.jpg

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Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Here are pics that I was able to find without digging out my old issues of Omega Men, JLI, or L.E.G.I.O.N...

 

Thanks. (For the record, I don't much like the costume he started with!)

 

I think he's always been a bad-ass tough guy, but as I said, he got ramped up to send up the 90s excesses, and instead became popular with those who liked that sort of thing.

 

Notably, Giffen doesn't seem too crazy about him either (see #44).

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Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

In discussing the bulkier appearance and changes in bone structure, it is important to note that Lobo did not realize he was taking what some people would call a "steroid." His trainer merely offered him the opportunity to test something called "Steroid X." Lobo did not understand this to be an actual steroid, as he believed the "X" meant it was clearly differentiated from the steroids that are bad for you. The required injections and unfortunate side effects like "back-ne" and... well, let's leave it at that... did not in any way alert Lobo to the true nature of the substance. It is important to note that many superheroes find the injection of supplemental materials to be part of a well-balanced exercise regimen.

 

I am confident that Lobo did not and could not have realized the nature of Steroid X. It is important to note that Lobo has not failed any drug tests to date. It is also important to note that his collection of masking agents is strictly for sponsorship purposes.

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Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Yes I watched the animated series, and no it was nowhere near as good as Batman The Animated Series. Superman was still a character with little depth or personality, and too much raw power. Yes he can still do whatever, whenever it is needed: Hi, he's still the strongest, fastest(A brick that can beat The Flash in a race, he did that in the Animated Series btw.), most invulnerable brick, with both fire and ice energy projection and the ability to fly on top of his alien technology gadget pool.

 

.........

 

I think it is Supes.

 

 

Okay. Originally it sounded like you hadnt seen the animated series, and I thought maybe youd have liked it.

 

I was wrong. My bad.

 

I hate it when people have strong, but uninformed opinions.

 

Your opinion is strong and apparently well-informed (since you -had- seen the series I was suggesting), so, being an opinion, it is perfectly valid.

 

Just trying to help :)

 

(For the record, Supes and the Flash never finished their race, but in several episodes of the DCAU taken as a whole it was pretty clear that Flash can beat Superman if he tries. Flash did global move-bys on Luthoriac; Superman cant move -that- fast!)

 

I think Cable may be my vote for worst hero ever.

 

What are his powers supposed to be anyway? He has a mutant cybernetic arm and guns?!?

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Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

I think Cable may be my vote for worst hero ever.

 

What are his powers supposed to be anyway? He has a mutant cybernetic arm and guns?!?

 

Which set?

 

Super-high levels of Telepathy and Telekinesis that were originally mostly used up controlling the Techno-virus he was infected with.

 

As his powers developed his TK grew to stupid high levels (filter bacteria from the air, rearrange the molecular structure of objects), and so did his telepathy (mind control, psi-blasts).

 

His T-O infected limbs had minor super-strength, and his t-o infected eye had telescopic and infrared vision. He could also (with great effort) change the appearance of his T-O infected parts.

 

Latter he was lobotomized, and the T-O Virus infected parts of his body were replaced with non-infectious techno-organic material. This caused his powers to weaken.

 

He now has a cyberpathic link to something called the "infonet" and he can force people to link to it. He uses a forcefield called the "Cone of silence" to enhance his weakened TK. He has also been infused with Deadpool's DNA giving him limited regeneration capabilities. They haven't shown if his T-O parts still possess any of the powers they formerly had.

 

He also has future tech in the form of guns, his teleporter "Bodyslide", and the "Psimitar" a Telepathy and Telekinesis enhancing spear.

 

link

 

I think this set of...um... almost completely random CRAP set of powers definitely puts him in the running for top-of-the-list lame.

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Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

What are his powers supposed to be anyway? He has a mutant cybernetic arm and guns?!?

 

Original version: Bionic on half his body, very weak telekinesis. (Nicieza version, the only version I generally acknowledge). Used guns and future-tech weapons because his mutant powers were too weak to be of use anywhere outside of 'pass me that wrench'.

 

Later version: Bionics were techno-organic virus induced (a la Warlock), weak telekinesis was a result of using the bulk of the power to hold back the T-O virus.

 

Later than that: Purged of T-O Virus, Telepathy and Telekinesis raised to levels that would kill him if used to their utmost and were mostly uncontrollable.

 

Not sure past that ... er, never mind, Gideon's got it past that.

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Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Am I missing something? None of those characters except Mon-El and occasionally Supergirl are LSH. Do you mean JLA, or is there a memo I didn't get?

 

Oh, and input.jack and OzMike... I'd totally rep you guys right now if I could.

 

I meant Mon-El and Supergirl.

 

Really, I can only take most DC characters if they're in a goofy LSH environment.

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Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Here are a couple of pages showing (1) the Earth-2 Superman being taken seriously, and (2) Power Girl being pwned by Jay Garrick.

 

I don't have time to deal with the "goofy" LSH, but there were several distinctly different stages in it's history. The goofiest stuff was early on, the Levitz stuff was mostly fairly serious, and the Giffen/Bierbaum stuff was positively grim in parts (and downright hilarious in others). I neither know nor care about the material from 1994 onwards.

 

For what it's worth, the LSH probably had the biggest list of deceased former members than any other team. Poor old Triplicate Girl/Duo Damsel managed to die twice! And, generally speaking, dead legionnaires tended to stay that way. The exceptions (Lightning Lad and Mon-El) were brought back in stories that involved other people sacrificing themselves for them - real tearjerkers, despite being "goofy".

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Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

For what it's worth' date=' the LSH probably had the biggest list of deceased former members than any other team...And, generally speaking, dead legionnaires tended to stay that way.[/quote']

 

I gotta respect LSH for that, you know.

 

I find it interesting the different criteria people are using to judge worst hero, almost more interesting than the actual judgments themselves. Not that I think any particular set of criteria are more "right" or "wrong," I just find the differences fascinating.

 

For instance, a couple of people seem fixated on powers. A set of powers that are lame in some way appear, for them, to automatically disqualify a hero from being cool, which I might get behind, or even automatically make him crappy, which I don't think I can support.

 

Some focus on how the character is written, which strikes me as a tricky thing to do except for characters who have only had one or a few authors, unless we can specify by writer (e.g.: McFarlane's Spider Man as opposed to, say, Lee's).

 

Some seem to key in on the general character concept. I do this more often than not, and I'll readily cop to the fact that sometimes a concept that sounds goofy on paper winds up being good in the execution - Tom Strong (I title I love to an almost obscene degree) kinda falls into this category for me.

 

I don't have a comment about this, in particular, I just thought it was interesting.

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Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Some seem to key in on the general character concept. I do this more often than not, and I'll readily cop to the fact that sometimes a concept that sounds goofy on paper winds up being good in the execution - Tom Strong (I title I love to an almost obscene degree) kinda falls into this category for me.

 

I kind of like Tom Strong's concept. "Victorian Era Perfect Man survives and grows as the world fills with Superheroes and Mad Science around him." Different strokes. ;)

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Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

I find it interesting the different criteria people are using to judge worst hero' date=' almost more interesting than the actual judgments themselves. Not that I think any particular set of criteria are more "right" or "wrong," I just find the differences fascinating. [/quote']

 

Well, that's one reason these threads exist, so people can see how others think.

 

For instance, a couple of people seem fixated on powers. A set of powers that are lame in some way appear, for them, to automatically disqualify a hero from being cool, which I might get behind, or even automatically make him crappy, which I don't think I can support.

 

Powers are one criteria. I know I would rather read about Spider-Man instead of some poor mutant whose only power is that he can make his farts smell like cinnamon toast. (comparison courtesy my brother, whom I beleive originated such a comparison, but I could be wrong.)

 

Some focus on how the character is written, which strikes me as a tricky thing to do except for characters who have only had one or a few authors, unless we can specify by writer (e.g.: McFarlane's Spider Man as opposed to, say, Lee's).

 

I suspect that for many of us, we get turned off of a superhero because of one particular writer: especially when we are just starting with the hero. If I started reading Marvel Comics with Civil War, I would be turned off of the Marvel Universe as a whole because of Millar's work.

 

Some seem to key in on the general character concept. I do this more often than not, and I'll readily cop to the fact that sometimes a concept that sounds goofy on paper winds up being good in the execution - Tom Strong (I title I love to an almost obscene degree) kinda falls into this category for me.

 

Yeah. Soimetimes a seemingly bad idea can be made into something great, like Tom Strong (I have not read it, but I figure that it's a fair assumption to make). It's all a matter of the writing and the execution. The Android Captain Marvel did have some potential according to some folks, despite being one of the silliest ideas to tarnish comic book pages. However, the imaginative concept was met by rather unimaginative writing, and that's why the comics ultimately shared a certain quality with road-killed skunks.

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Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

For instance, a couple of people seem fixated on powers. A set of powers that are lame in some way appear, for them, to automatically disqualify a hero from being cool, which I might get behind, or even automatically make him crappy, which I don't think I can support.

A character with silly or stupid powers can still be cool. Look at characters like the Legion of Substitute Heroes. They have some of the stupidest powers, but they are fun read about, and could be fun to play in a game.

 

My problem comes when (like Cable) a character has miriads of completely un-related powers. I have friends who used to play the Marvel Superheroes RPG. And I would cringe every time they would describe their characters to me. The reason for this (for people who don't know the game) is that characters were generated randomly Including powers. Thats how the game works. So you could end up with Claws, Metalline Skin, Gravity Bolts, and the ability to psichicly make pictures come to life. What kind of concept is that as a character?!?! It makes no sense, and IMO inevitably a lame character.

 

Some focus on how the character is written, which strikes me as a tricky thing to do except for characters who have only had one or a few authors, unless we can specify by writer (e.g.: McFarlane's Spider Man as opposed to, say, Lee's).
I try to avoid this criteria. Any character can be written badly regardless of who the character is or how much people like him. And how well a character is written is much more subjective compaired to the other criteria possible.

 

For instance I used to be a huge fan of the Elongated Man. But since the Breakdowns plot in JLE I think he has been written so badly I can barely recongnise the character. He's gone from a little goofy to manicly silly (ala plastic man) to grim and depressed, to dead. And while I still follow the character I don't enjoy him as much any more because I don't think the writers understand him as a character.

 

Some seem to key in on the general character concept. I do this more often than not, and I'll readily cop to the fact that sometimes a concept that sounds goofy on paper winds up being good in the execution - Tom Strong (I title I love to an almost obscene degree) kinda falls into this category for me.
This is most often how I determine wether or not I think a character is stupid or lame. Now I have said I can't stand Cable. This is mostly because of his concept and how it has been handled.

 

He is the son of Cyclops and Madelyn Prior (the evil clone of Jean Gey). He was infected with the Techno-Virus by Apocalypse as a baby, and then taken to the far future by his time-displaced psudo-half-sister (Rachel) to be saved. The Psychies of his father and the woman his mother was cloned from were then forceably taken into the future and placed in new bodies so they could raise their "son" for 12 years.

 

Several years after his "parents" left him (returning to the present with no memories) he traveled back to the present himself following his evil clone Stryfe. Durring this time he traveled regularly to and from the future and used the future-version of the X-Factor's own computer as a source of information.

 

GAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I almost needed a flow-chart to follow that series of events while I was writing it down. The character's background is overly complicated with far to much time travel and paradoxical events. He's actually so complicated that at one point the X comics all came with a fold out time-line, just so the readers could keep it all straight.

 

I also dislike the character because he feels like he was created backwards. IMO Cable seems like a character who's background was written after he was created (and already seen print) to substantiate the character and his all-to-unrelated sets of powers.

 

At least Superman was created concept first/ powers second.

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Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

The Android Captain Marvel did have some potential according to some folks' date=' despite being one of the silliest ideas to tarnish comic book pages. However, the imaginative concept was met by rather unimaginative writing, and that's why the comics ultimately shared a certain quality with road-killed skunks.[/quote']

 

Are you refering to the one who could "SPLIT!"?

 

Or was there a different android version of Captain Marvel at one point?

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