Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

[BcAugust]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

I did say 'most'. And I'm in the same boat' date=' which is why I'm surprised so many of the reponses are to the negative.[/quote']

 

 

Why wouldn't they be in the negative? After all, it is a negative in almost all comic books and books. Not to mention in most religions(Admittedly, I can't think of any that wouldn't consider it a bad decision all around).

 

And quite frankly, the original poster did specify that it was a bad thing to have happen.

[input.jack]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

Characters who lose their soul slowly exchange their entire music collecton for John Tesh and Kathy Lee Gifford albums.

 

So youre saying they become supervillains?

[Tech]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

If they lose their soul, I say they turn into one of the worst horrors possible: a can of SPAM.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

If they lose their soul' date=' I say they turn into one of the worst horrors possible: a can of SPAM.[/quote']

Ah, the Bloom County theory.

"Steve, no! There are things man was never meant to know about himself!"

[Metaphysician]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

Honestly? I would have tried to avoid this situation turning up in the first place. At the least, I'd try to drop some hint that yes, this guy is Mephisto, after the first PC made a deal with him.

 

At this stage of the game, I really don't think there's any way to avoid tragedy. Not with that many party members effected at once.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

It'd depend on the campaigns metaphysics, but I like the #1-6 list assembled above, especially McCoy's #4... Loss of a soul turns a Man into an Animal

[Blue]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

Nature abhorrs a vacume. Losing one's soul could lead to a need to procure a new one, or it could leave the individual as a prime target for "hostile takeover".

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

If they lose their soul' date=' I say they turn into one of the worst horrors possible: a can of SPAM.[/quote']

 

Now I'm hungry. (I like Spam.)

[Metaphysician]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

Nature abhorrs a vacume. Losing one's soul could lead to a need to procure a new one' date=' or it could leave the individual as a prime target for "hostile takeover".[/quote']

 

Oh, yeah. In fact, whatever the consequences of lacking a soul, this should be an ongoing additional threat. The PC should probably require mystic warding to keep every ghost, spirit, and demon around from trying to play "ride the horsey."

[Kristopher]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

Now I'm hungry. (I like Spam.)

 

Oh, you are evil.

 

 

 

 

[McCoy]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

It'd depend on the campaigns metaphysics' date=' but I like the #1-6 list assembled above, especially McCoy's #4... Loss of a soul turns a Man into an Animal[/quote']

Thank you.

[The Weapon]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

Possibility: Your soul is what makes you want to do things. If you forfiet it someone else decides what you do, which means you DO fulfil your part of the contract. After you do, maybe you get your soul back.

 

One things for sure, souls are detectable. Losing your soul gets you Distinctive Features (Not concealable, Extreme Reaction, Unusual detects only).

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

Why wouldn't they be in the negative? After all' date=' it is a negative in almost all comic books and books. Not to mention in most religions(Admittedly, I can't think of any that [i']wouldn't[/i] consider it a bad decision all around).

 

And quite frankly, the original poster did specify that it was a bad thing to have happen.

 

 

There's 'bad' and then there's 'cataclysmic'. Bad is 'suffer for eternity after you die'. Cataclysmic is 'character becomes unplayable'.

 

The deal has to at least seem fair, or nobody would take it. Becoming an animal (which, actually, is an improvement in my eyes, but that's another story) is such a downturn that nobody would take the deal because all that power would mean squat if they can't use it.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

That assumes a deal not made in ignorance, which must be at least partially the case, given the character made the deal(s) in the first place.

[MadWand]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

I like the "Soul as lifeforce" idea, above. I would suggest a further disadvantage: a soul is needed to adapt, change, and improve yourself. i.e., a person with no soul recieves no more XP. Optionally, they'll get back those XP when/if they get their soul back.

[John T]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

Go to the fish market and get more...

[BcAugust]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

There's 'bad' and then there's 'cataclysmic'. Bad is 'suffer for eternity after you die'. Cataclysmic is 'character becomes unplayable'.

 

The deal has to at least seem fair, or nobody would take it. Becoming an animal (which, actually, is an improvement in my eyes, but that's another story) is such a downturn that nobody would take the deal because all that power would mean squat if they can't use it.

 

Ah, I see what you're saying. The problem is, it that this is a bad thing in the OP's world. More seriously, it's unheroic to take the situation as is. I do like the idea of gradually degrading, so that they have to go and take the soul back or something(adventure hooks are always nice), but to have no immediate effect leads to a spiraling down.

 

Of course, if he wanted to be evil...it might be that being evil gains you energy in place of soul energy. Especially killers. So you don't degrade if you go evil. That would fit the demonic spiraling down, even for people who sold their souls for "good" reasons. And it fits with the Mephisto type of person, who'll win whatever they do, if they follow the normal script.

[Iron Wallaby]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

This is a pretty cool idea. The price of power, even for doing good. It's a nice theme and one I like using myself.

 

The price is just right, the PC's soul. And yes, they should lose it. And it should hurt them. If you're into blue booking or heavy roleplay, have them wake up with memories they are unsure about.

 

A GM did this to me once in a Fantasy Hero game. My PC was a beserker who was melded with a demon. It had all kinds of upsides, such as fast, tough, very strong, healed fast, master at combat, etc, but the downside was he lost control, totally and became a driven killing machine until the demon had sated its lust for blood.

 

He gamed this out, with me in full control of the character. For him, it was a matter of knowing how I and my character would react. But you can manipulate how PC's react by how much information you give them.

 

The scene was on a ship, sailing to war, and I woke up in the middle of the night with something standing over me. It made a hostile move and I attacked it. A huge battle ensued, smashing through bulkheads etc. I was finally knocked unconscious by the monsters allies. When my PC woke, he was surrounded by the entire cast of PC's and NPC's, all bearing...remarkably similar wounds to those that I had inflicted on my 'demonic' attackers.

 

If your PC's are superheroes, they could retain control of their characters, but suffer a similar episode, where you describe a 'supervillian' attacking a 'bank'. They react as PC's do. Why would they not trust you as GM? After, they realise that it was a hero not a villain. One or two incidences like this, maybe even a severely injured normal, even a fatality if you want the angst, and the PC's are going to be asking questions.

 

Enter a mystic hero of some sort who points them in the right direction. To properly regain their souls, they have to reconnect with them in say, an astral realm they have been removed to, and this opens up chances for more roleplaying as they battle dark versions of themselves or whatever in order to aid their souls to escape whereever they are and return to their bodies.

 

Once that is done, there is a reckoning to be had with that mystic being.

 

There are so many ways you could handle it, but the theme shouldn't be the Ultimate Price of getting what you want, but should have some way out of it. Things shouldn't be easy, but it would be appropriately comic book to handle it in a manner somewhat like this. Arbitrary punishment or handing out of consequences such as "You die, don't make deals with the devil" are harsh and generally don't fit with the tone of most games.

 

Have fun with it, torture your PC's for quite sometime. Have them fearful of doing something to their DNPC's, put them on the run from the authorities for their actions, take away their bases, vehicles and support structures. REALLY give it to them.

 

It's an opportunity, if you will, to run a short supervillain version of your game, as the PC's succumb to being soulless and seek a way to redeem themselves and get their souls back. Big themes, grand storylines. Run with it. Sounds like fun.

[Oruncrest]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

Hey guys,

Some time ago I introduced a neferious NPC / villain into my campaign who would grant favors to anyone who made a deal with him. The deal is always for the person to repay the favor at a later date. The catch is that the person who makes the deal must comply with the favor that is later asked of him/her or lose their soul to this mystical being.

 

So far, three of the heroes in my campaign have succumbed to asking the mystical being for a favor ... If the heroes decline to perform the favor, they immediately lose their souls to the mystical being.

 

At this time I am still undecided on how to address the loss of the PC's souls should they decline to perform the favor. Could a PC lose his or her soul and still be allowed to continue game play? ... But, in that case then the PCs suffer no immediate penalty for not completing the favor asked of them. So, no real downside until the character actually dies, right?

 

My first plan was to have the PCs immediately die when (and if) they lose their soul for not completing the requested favor. But, then the question remains, how does the PC come back from this? ... I'd like to hear the suggestions you guys and gals have out there on how you would handle this in your own campaigns.

 

I'm sure that I missed the response that already said what I'm going to say, but for your first idea (i.e. continuing to be active despite having lost their souls, like Blue Devil after the events of Underworld Unleashed), I'd suggest you give the characters the following disads:

 

10 Distinctive Features: Soulless (Not Concealable, Major Reaction, Detectable only by Mages, Supernatural Beings, and Magic Sensitives); Treat this disad as a 'Mark of Cain' for the characters: Heroic mystics will tend to shun the characters, recognizing that they sold their souls for something that wasn't truly important (this is especially true in the case of the guy who sold his soul for a movie script), while villainous mystics will try to tempt them into even further damnation.

 

15 Hunted by Possessing Entities (More Powerful, 8-); A typical Possessing Entity (like say, a ghost) would have powers like Desolidification, Clinging (that works against EGO, not STR, +¼), and Mind Control, in an Elemental Control at 0 END. Since the character doesn't have a soul, such beings would naturally see a big "RIDE ME!" sign on the character's back. Their plans to take the soulless bodies as their own would be made much easier by he following disad:

 

15 Physical Limitation: EGO becomes 0 when defending against an Possessing Entity (Infrequent, Fully); You can change the EGO value to ½ EGO instead or give them a susceptibility or vulnerability to PEs, but the point is that they should be vulnerable to the PEs.

 

:Pluto: :Pluto:

 

As for the 'Dead, but we can revive them if we get their souls back', might I suggest this power:

 

22 I Steal Your Soul: Extra-Dimensional Movement to Beneficiaries Afterlife Dimension, Usable as Attack (+1), Trigger (victim willfully chooses to betray the terms of his agreement with the Beneficiary, +¼); Leaves Body Behind ('Real Body' is considered to have an EGO of 0 while the soul is in another dimension, -1); AP: 45; END 4

 

The normal means to resist this attack would be to make an EGO roll against the beneficiaries' EGO roll, however, your victims would've surrendered that opportunity when hey agreed to the Beneficiaries' terms (either by handshake or signature).

 

The 'Leaves Body Behind' limitation is from 4th edition Champions and is chosen solely because I feel that it makes for a cleaner mechanic than trying to use a variation of the Astral Form power in 5th ed.

 

In role-playing terms, the body would still be alive, but without a soul, it couldn't do any of the things that most of us take for granted (you know, like eat, drink, or move), the victim's body would suffer from stuff like dehydration and starvation, not to mention the threat of Possessing Entities wanting to take the newly vacated body for a ride. Meanwhile, the victim's soul is trapped in an 'afterlife dimesion' that reflects its rulers tastes (it doesn't have to be hellish; the 'Afterlife dimension' of Adam Warlock's Soul Gem was a nice place). Hopefully, the character's teammates will try to rescue the luckless sap from this horrible(?) fate by finding a way into the 'Afterlife Dimension' to go after him, where they'll discover what this 'Afterlife' is like, why the villain wants souls, confront the villain, ending with a narrow escape from the 'Afterlife' with the victim's soul, and finally forcing the victim's body & soul together.

 

Hope this helps.

[Alverant]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

In the Big Eyes Small Mouth system there are 3 basic stats: Mind, Body, and Soul. I bring this up because the Soul is an explicit stat apart from the other two. It's part of neither Mind nor Body. That's my take on this discussion.

 

I have issues with some of the suggestions for loosing one soul. For example if a soul is life force and a soulless character can't recover or has reduced ability to heal damage and recover END, then what about animals? If they don't have souls, shouldn't they also have the reduced ability to heal damage and rest? Also if souls are the ability to love and experience joy, then how can our pets show us affection?

 

As for morality, animals have that too though in more primal and basic forms.

 

I would take a loss of soul to be more abstract and metaphysical.

 

1) You can only perform magic that the new soul's owner grants you.

 

2) You loose all creativity. Not just in terms of art and writing, but even in small ways like telling little white lies to explain to your boss why you took a 3 hour lunch as your superhero ID foiled a bank robbery.

 

3) Likewise you can no longer become inspired and think abstractly.

 

4) You become suspectible to be Turned like undead and being Mind Controlled.

 

5) Soul-based magic has no affect on you, for good or ill.

 

6) You no longer appreciate things like music or beauty and honor.

 

7) You act more like an animal in attitude and slowly become more uncivilized.

 

8) Travel to higher planes is impossible, higher beings no longer recognize you as human.

 

9) Death is permenant (even for a comic book death) until the soul is recovered. But you may be turned into a true undead.

 

10) Other strange things start to happen. Animals don't like you. Babies cry if you're near. Your vision looks like someone is turning down the Color setting on an old TV. No or altered shadow. Automatic doors, electronic scales, digital cameras, etc no longer register your existance. Feeling incomplete. Bizarre dreams of your soul calling out to you. Apethetic behavior to things not directly related to your survival.

 

The characters should feel something is missing that they can't quite put their finger on. Then what happened comes to them in a rush. Recovering/freeing their soul suddenly becomes very important and only becomes more urgent as time passes.

[1EyedJack]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

In my mind the creature would take possesion of the deal breakers soul at the time of the characters death. The problem is that heros have annoying tendancies to somehow wiggle out of these deals. what you have to ask yourself is dose the creature want the souls more than the services. If he is eager to collect the soul he could always force some other debtor to kill or arrange an Accident for the offending character, to insure collection of said debt. Now if the creature can take the soul of a living character without killing them I would suggest 2 things. 1 minium of 2d6 unluck, the character nolonger has a higher power looking out for them- they have no soul. 2 look at some disadds for free willed undead and apply those that seem approate to a creature without a soul, at the very least I would make the character a passionless husk of his former self.

oh and 3 I would give them a physical disadd - can't dance, cause they got no soul (okay it was a bad pun)

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

...I have issues with some of the suggestions for loosing one soul. For example if a soul is life force and a soulless character can't recover or has reduced ability to heal damage and recover END' date=' then what about animals? If they don't have souls, shouldn't they also have the reduced ability to heal damage and rest? Also if souls are the ability to love and experience joy, then how can our pets show us affection?...[/quote']

Animals don't have souls? This is one of those questions where, as has been suggested already, the cosmology of the specific campaign world is all important. It's an interesting question, but I don't think we should assume that the world in question works this way.

 

Now, if you wanna talk souls in reality, well, let's take it to the NGD and not derail into that here

[Alverant]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

I thought about it some more and I think we're going about the problem wrong. The issue is more of helping the GM get out of the corner he painted himself into and less of saying what happens to PC sans-soul. As I understand the OP (Original Poster):

 

1) Some PCs make a deal that requires them to do something.

 

2) If the PCs break the deal they loose their souls.

 

3) The PCs don't know what they'll have to do to fulfill the bargain.

 

4) The dealmaker will have them do something that will aid Evil.

 

So here's how I will handle it:

 

The PCs are told what each must to to fulfill the bargain. They will be questionable, but not overtly evil. I picture the tasks involving some of the plot hooks of Captain Kronos (you must make sure this person gets to this location after 5pm Thursday). When given the task, the PCs are told what they loose if they fail or refuse. Doing each task will be a session since the whole group will be involved.

 

Any who fail or refused, will loose their soul and you have a session showing them what happens. It was already discussed what soul-less effects are so I'll skip that. Let's just say that in the end, the PCs should REALLY want their souls back.

 

The dealmaker then gives them a grace period before the soul is lost permanently (or reclaimed through force) that was harder than the first task.

 

When the tasks are done and souls are reclaimed, you reveal the effects of completing their tasks so now the PCs have to repair the damage they indirectly did. For example the man who the helped reach his destination on time was actually a mob informant. Getting him at a certain place by 5 led to a short series of events that got him killed. (A made man spotted him with an ADA and figured out what happened.) So now the PCs have to avenge his death and salvage the ADA's case.

 

Ideally when you're done, the PCs won't be making similar agreements in the future.

[McCoy]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

Shameless thread necro.

 

ARISE!

[Balabanto]

Re: Characters Losing Their Souls - How To Handle It?

 

I just say "This is a Mcguffin. He has your soul. Too bad."