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Cool Guns for your Games


Remjin

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isn't the new in tactical hotness supposed to be the C clamp Grip

Nope -- it's been around for several years, now.  It has its place for those who need to transition to different weapons rapidly, as transitions from that grip to another weapon are quantifiably faster -- rendering it fairly common in 3-Gun competitions, today.

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I've had the DP-12 in my hands and man, that thing is monstrously large/heavy compared to, say, the KSG.  It's also strange only having to pump every other shot.  Personally, I don't care for the DP-12.

Crye's Six12 is also an oddity as a standalone shotgun -- primarily because the cylinder is awkward.  However, it's insanely cool as an under-barrel shotty mated to an AR-15 platform.  Here's a taste of that:

 

 

And then there's the American-made UTAS XTR-12 AR-style semi-automatic 12 gauge.  No Saiga clone, here.  I can only imagine this thing with a Slide Fire stock and a 24 round drum mated to it.  And you just -know- someone will make a drum for it...



 
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I've had the DP-12 in my hands and man, that thing is monstrously large/heavy compared to, say, the KSG.  It's also strange only having to pump every other shot.  Personally, I don't care for the DP-12.

 

I tend to view the DP-12 as a solution looking for a problem (and I'm pretty sure I don't want to meet the problem that requires a quick 12 gauge double-tap before cycling the action)...

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I feel similarly.  The trouble with the DP12 is that for anyone with enough pump shotgun training/experience to have developed the appropriate muscle memory to fire/pump/fire/pump/lather/rinse/repeat ... the DP-12 simply feels unnatural (in addition to unnecessarily large and heavy).  The only solutions to this problem are to either train enough with it to develop new/appropriate muscle memory ... or to work around one's existing muscle memory.

 

The former approach costs substantial time and money, while the latter results in shot speeds that are slower than they otherwise would be with appropriate training-based muscle-memory, making the overall shot speed of the DP-12 after the first double-tap relatively unchanged compared to the overall shot speed of someone with training-based muscle memory running a Remington 870, Mossberg 500/590, or similar.  If we all grew up with twin barreled, pump shotguns where you fire/fire/pump/fire/fire/pump/lather/rinse/repeat, then most trained/experienced shotgun folks would run the DP-12 faster than its one-shot-per-pump competitors, but that's simply not the case.

 

Frankly, for the bulk, weight, and expense of the DP12, there are semi-auto 12gauges that are lighter and faster ... with no muscle memory needed. (A Saiga 12 with a [ridiculous] 30-round drum comes to mind.  Thinking more practically, the JM Pro 10-shot is a LOT of semi-auto, tactical shotty for the money; it's been making good showings in 3 Gun competitions...)

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I bring you the gen2 Kel-Tec RFB in FDE.  Chambered in 7.62mm NATO (aka .308) with an 18" barrel, 1:11.25" twist, adjustable gas system, and OAL of 26"...

 

keltec_rfb_fde_14.jpg

 

I brought one home today.  This thing is amazingly compact/light for a .308.  The trigger is also surprisingly crisp for a bullpup -- given how long some of the parts in the trigger assembly have to be in bullpups.  It is by no means pretty, but it's very, very functional.

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I bring you the gen2 Kel-Tec RFB in FDE.  Chambered in .7.62mm NATO (aka .308) with an 18" barrel, 1:11.25" twist, adjustable gas system, and OAL of 26"...

 

keltec_rfb_fde_14.jpg

 

I brought one home today.  This thing is amazingly compact/light for a .308.  The trigger is also surprisingly crisp for a bullpup -- given how long some of the parts in the trigger assembly have to be in bullpups.  It is by no means pretty, but it's very, very functional.

 

Nice.

 

More info is available at:

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifle/rfb

 

 

hqdefault.jpg

 

images-rfb-cross-view-tm-tm.jpg

 

The ergonomics of changing magazines on bullpup designs has always looked weird to me.  I am curious how much of an issue it really is.

 

HM

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According to some friends of mine who spent time in the Australian Army, including one who was there when they changed over to the AusSteyr (modded Steyr AUG), the difference is tangible, but easy to overcome with instruction and practice. That said, the one who was in at the changeover was unimpressed, especially with the trigger, which he described as "mushy".

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Bullpup triggers always suffer some (in terms of trigger weight and length of pull) due to the sheer length of their mechanisms.  I could see the Steyr's trigger being mushy if it had too much takeup; my Bushmaster M17S felt what I would call 'mushy', as well, until I did some smithing to reduce the takeup ... and shave 2lbs from the trigger weight.  Now it's not half bad ... but a match trigger it absolutely isn't.  Anyone expecting more than a combat trigger from a bullpup -- really doesn't have reasonable expectations.

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