Cool Guns for your Games

[DusterBoy]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

To me, the concept of snub-nosed revolvers in .44 Mag, .454 Casull, etc is just insane and the concept of a .454 Casull calibre revolver with only a 2 1/2 inch barrel is just monumentally insane, as is the idea of a derringer in .357 Mag.

[wcw43921]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

I'm curious--just how are you suppoesd to reload a Metal-Storm weapon? Granted, you put that much firepower on a target it's not very likely to get up again--but if there's more than one target or if you encounter more targets later, you'll not be able to deal with them in the manner which they deserve.

 

I was thinking interchangeable pre-loaded barrels--is that how it's done? Are you supposed to carry more than one weapon as a backup? Or something else?

[megaplayboy]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

I'm curious--just how are you suppoesd to reload a Metal-Storm weapon? Granted, you put that much firepower on a target it's not very likely to get up again--but if there's more than one target or if you encounter more targets later, you'll not be able to deal with them in the manner which they deserve.

 

I was thinking interchangeable pre-loaded barrels--is that how it's done? Or something else?

 

I'd think you'd either use interchangeable pre-loads, or else just have a tube load that drops the rounds into each barrel.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

To me' date=' the concept of snub-nosed revolvers in .44 Mag, .454 Casull, etc is just insane and the concept of a .454 Casull calibre revolver with only a 2 1/2 inch barrel is just monumentally insane, as is the idea of a derringer in .357 Mag. [/quote']

 

My personal favorite "Are you nucking futz?" Derringer is the .45-70 model...

[gewing]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

Nice list.

 

I like the M-1 Garand for a 30-06 option, it's tough, reliable, accurate, fairly common and usually cheap.

 

 

A used Remington 740 series is usually pretty cheap. They are generally pretty accurate too. If you want even more reliable, the 760 series pump action rifles don't even have gas operation issues. I have the semi-auto in .30-06. Another option is a used "sporterized" military bolt action. I have seen them for under $200 at the pawn shop. If you get one that is based on a model 98 Mauser, you can order inexpensive barrels from Brownells or a number of other sources, that are almost ready to go. A gunsmith can put them in a barrel vise, unscrew the barrel, then screw the new one in and check the headspace. They might need a touchup with a chamber reamer, but not the full rigamarole of a barrel change on most bolt actions.

 

The .308 is probably even easier to find ammo for now, though I believe it is pretty close to a toss up. The power is darned close too.

 

A less obvious option is a surplus British SMLE .303. They have been around for so long that ammo is fairly easy to find. In power they are quite close to the .308. In Canada, I think they still load a 215 0r 220 grain bullet that is apparently superb for heavy game. I have seen them for under $200 also. They have a 10 round magazine, instead of the 5 round of most of the old guns. If you could find an Ishapore model IIA, they are chambered in .308, and hold 12 rounds in the magazine.

 

 

 

I picked up a Mossberg 8000 (iirc) .308 for FREE, through a lucky deal. Fortunately my dad is a gunsmith, and he was able to figure out a way to fix the "iffy" safety! When I went shooting last week I tried out some inexpensive winchester 150 gr power point ammo in it. I was thinking of a hunting load, but the group at 100 yards off a rest was probably close to 3 inches. I tried three rounds of Federal Gold Medal Match, with the Sierra 168 matchking, and it put them in somewhere between .75" and 1", I didn't actually measure. The 168 MK has always worked on deer for friends and family, but I wanted to try something else this year. Given the accuracy difference, I'll stick with the matchking. Funnily enough, in my family's experience, the Sierra Match bullets work better on game than their hunting bullets... or at least as well.

 

 

If I came into some money, I think the sequence of guns I would buy would be

Ruger .45 LC, probably a blackhawk with a 5.5 inch barrel.

Marlin 1895 in .45-70, probably the new one

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/bigbore/1895SBL.asp

 

It would be a tossup based on what I came across first"

Savage Model 99 takedown with the old rotary magazine in .250 savage, .300 savage, or .308 win

 

Winchester model 100 rifle or Carbine in either .308 or .284.

 

CZ bolt action in .375 H&H.

 

The Remington R25(?) in their new caliber, .30 RAR might be nice. It would be fun to play games with wildcats in it.

 

I can dream, can't I???

[gewing]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

My personal favorite "Are you nucking futz?" Derringer is the .45-70 model...

 

 

A friend of my dad's bought one. He fired it ONCE. the grips peeled off in his hand...

 

He never fired it again and sold it asap.

[Wolf]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

Nice list.

 

I like the M-1 Garand for a 30-06 option, it's tough, reliable, accurate, fairly common and usually cheap.

 

You know, this was "the 30-06" on my list but my problem is weight, if I'm planning a bug out bag, I want light weigh, and to be honest what with all the ammo weight from the bloody different calibers that I'm looking at packing and all the bloody different weapons, the Garand is by and far too much as far as weight.

 

Now I haven't researched it, and I'd need to see the post work weight, but if there is any synthetic stuff like for the M-14:

 

Then that would make my short list... Like solid on- list. I know I have the internet and time, but right now I have to get back to Homework, I'll check it later.

I also need to see the "legality" of putting a kit like that on a Garand (folding stock and Picatiny (RIS, etc.) rail system etc.) would be.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

It's too bad weight is a problem. Otherwise there's a company that makes and sells replica M1918 BARs, which of course are chambered in .30-06.

[Wolf]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

It's too bad weight is a problem. Otherwise there's a company that makes and sells replica M1918 BARs' date=' which of course are chambered in .30-06.[/quote']

 

This might sound strange, depending on your background, but though the BARs are nice, if I recall correctly, they also are on Full auto all the time, and I have near 0 use of anything even remotely automatic in groups under squad size. And even then you don't need a "dedicated automatic" until you reach a platoon sized element.

 

I have a child, and another one on the way, with my wife that comes out to a possible (some 11 or so years in the future) 4 of us for team level tactics in a survival situation. We'll need one or two weapons with a semi-auto switchable action for that sized group with my current knowledge of tactics. Though my Airsoft team could come in as additional trained members, but few of them have the actual weapons to fill the role they've trained in, and I'd be a little nervous handing a "real-steel weapon" over to most of them.

 

Short form; besides weight, I have no need of a beast like a BAR. Though for collecting sake, it's a nice piece, thanks for the site.

[DusterBoy]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

My personal favorite "Are you nucking futz?" Derringer is the .45-70 model...

 

That's just broken, and once you've fired it, so will your wrists be

[Susano]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

I saw a photos of what looked like a revolver chambered for shotgun shells. Anyone have any idea what that is?

[Greywind]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

Baby...

[Susano]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

I saw a photos of what looked like a revolver chambered for shotgun shells. Anyone have any idea what that is?

 

Found it:

 

 

The Taurus Judge, which can take .45 or .410 shells.

[Toadmaster]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

Snubby magnums are only insanity in game stats where you combine max power in a small package.

The nice thing with revolvers is you can vary the load so much from super light to full power. A 3 1/2" .44 Mag with a light load can provide a moderately small weapon with more power and control than a full sized .45 ACP and way more power than a compact 9mm or .38 special. Loading it with a heavy bullet at low velocity (relative) you can provide a weapon with a lot of power in a modest size gun that is still "reasonable". The .454 Casull is similar being able to use loads similar to a .45 ACP up to very high powered loads. I'm pretty sure it can also chamber .410 shotgun shells.

 

Years ago I took a firearms class and got to put a few hundred rounds through a 2 1/2" Colt Python .357 Magnum. Not only was it fun to shoot I was actually getting better scores at 40 yards with it than some of the full size handguns I got to shoot. (.357 Magnum is one of the finest handgun rounds ever invented in my opinion, lots of power, accurate, controllable). I did shoot better with 4" & 6" .357s, but the 2 1/2" was pretty accurate too.

 

Now the typical gamer attitude of using the standard full power load in that little gun is where it gets silly, in reality there isn't enough barrel to get the full power out of the cartridge. As far as I know only Phoenix Command and The Armory actually modeled this in the rules.

 

Some of these snubby magnums are probably just for the macho factor but that is not always the case. I'm pretty sure most of those magnum derringers fall into the macho category, I can't imagine anything larger than a .45 ACP being usable more than once.

 

 

Metalstorm was really intended to compete as a point defense weapon (shoot down a missile before it hits your ship). I think these man portable concepts showing up are more of an attempt to find a use for the weapon than a practical weapon.

 

 

The BAR varied by user, I forget which is which but the USMC and Army both used it, one had the standard select fire (semi / fullauto), the other had a dual rate of auto fire 350 / 600 IIRC, the slow rate made it very easy to take single shots.

 

I'm pretty sure there are synthetic stocks for the M1, but at that point I'm not sure why you wouldn't just go with an M14 clone, basically the same gun modernized and a lot more options out there for it. The M1 is a nice rifle but I would think the two reasons you would get one would be owning a piece of history or because it is cheaper than an M14 clone.

[Wolf]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

Hmmm, thanks for the info Toadmaster.

[Remjin]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

However' date=' when I was younger I fired a lot of 9mm, and got use to the kick, so when I got the chance to fire a .45 I thought that it would be a sob... but it was a much smoother round to fire, I came to understand that many operators (SoF personnel) feel the same way, and came to prefer a .45 for my sidearm. Though I wish that the sig 226 came chambered for .45.[/quote']

 

I'm of the same opinion. Ever try the Sig 220? Same controls and style with a single stack mag of .45 acp.

[Wolf]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

I'm of the same opinion. Ever try the Sig 220? Same controls and style with a single stack mag of .45 acp.

 

Honestly, no, I haven't, and I love Sig, so I'm not adverse to it, I just really like the look and feel of the 226/228. But I'll try it next time I'm at the range...

 

It's worth a shot, right?

 

And I'm not one to have to have my elbow twisted to fire a weapon.

[Kristopher]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

I've tried several 9mm automatics and several .45ACP automatics, and in general I find the .45s to be more comfortable and more accurate in my hands.

[Curufea]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

[DusterBoy]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

So, how about the S&W 4500 series?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%26W_4506

[Remjin]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

Honestly, no, I haven't, and I love Sig, so I'm not adverse to it, I just really like the look and feel of the 226/228. But I'll try it next time I'm at the range...

 

It's worth a shot, right?

 

And I'm not one to have to have my elbow twisted to fire a weapon.

 

Hehe. From my experience, the Sig 220 feels about the same as the 226. Its a bit narrower in the grip since its a single-stack, but not that much. Obviously, the weight and balance or a bit different, but I didn't think significantly so. Everything else is just the same, scaled to fit. There are a lot of variations of the gun available now as well, including a deal that's cheaper than buying the whole gun by buying it as a .22 LR and .45 ACP at the same time. Ask your sig dealer about it if you get interested.

 

I've tried several 9mm automatics and several .45ACP automatics' date=' and in general I find the .45s to be more comfortable and more accurate in my hands.[/quote']

 

I find the .45s less snappy recoil to be a big boon, but then most of my .45 acp experience is with a 1911 of one sort or another. I've fired a Sig 220, a glock 30 sub-compact (which was great for me, actually, despite it being ugly and feeling weird), and a few miscellaneous others. My only 1911s have been springfields, and my someday-to-arrive Sig Sauer 1911; though I've fired an auto-ordnance. Oh, I shot the S&W M&P... or was it another one? Well, one of the other polymer pistols in .45 ACP. Not bad, but never did really like it.

 

As far as 9mm pistols go, I've always liked the CZ-75 and its derivatives, the hi-power with beavertail or bobbed hammer (I get hammer bite, though not bad, but enough to bother me), and the XD(m)-9 wasn't bad either. I had a Ruger P89 that was a lot of bang for your dollar, tough as hell (survived 2 double-charged reloads I got for cheap. I'll never do that again.), and hardly recoiled at all in that caliber. I'd likely buy that again if I found it for sale, but sold it due to financial reasons at the time.

 

Honestly, I'd like to buy a CZ SP-01 w/ that tactical rail w/ bayonet. The bayonet amuses me, but the rail with muzzle guard I like since it keeps the pistol operating at muzzle contact, preventing the slide from going out of battery in a close struggle. The XD(m)-9 would be my 2nd choice.

 

My next .45 after the sig comes in will likely be a Para-Ordnance Tac Four, as I just like the combination of size, capacity, and the rounded out rear.

 

After that, I'm going back to some revolvers. I've wanted one of those 8-shot N-frame .357s for awhile now, especially with the 5" barrel. 5.5" would be better, aesthetically, but I'll take 5". I just wish they'd leave the barrel round or go with a bull barrel rather than the lightened ones. And I'd like it in blue rather than stainless.

 

Then a Charter Arms Bulldog in .44 Special or a Ruger LCR in .38 special. Something just cool about both of those, though the LCR looks flimsy. But its a Ruger, so I doubt it actually is. Great innovation there, in some ways.

 

I've wandered and rambled enough. Just got to thinking about my pistol wish list there...

[Remjin]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

So, how about the S&W 4500 series?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%26W_4506

 

Never did like S&W semi-autos much. I've fired one in .45 ACP, one in 9mm, and they never did impress me. They weren't bad, they just weren't right for me is all. *shrug* Felt a tad awkward, though they shot well enough. I didn't like the controls, either.

[Toadmaster]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

So, how about the S&W 4500 series?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%26W_4506

 

I own a S&W 6906, and have fired several other S&W 9mm pistols and like them a lot. I also fired a 4506 and expected to like it, but it didn't do anything for me.

 

I also have a Ruger P90, and have fired the SIG P220 and like both, however I have not fired a .45 auto I have liked as much as the M1911, although the Sig was close. I would like to try the Para-Ordnance LDA, since it is basically a double action M1911. I really like the M1911 but prefer a double action, so the LDA seems like a good possibility for the future.

[gewing]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

I couldn't find it on their website, but Aviation Week and Space technology had a couple interesting things in the last two weeks. Not small arms, but they might have roles in some games.

 

Last week they did a nearly two page article on the Naval Weapon Stations "Spike" micro missile. Sounds like it may FINALLY be getting close to being fielded. IMO it makes more sense that most modern military development projects.

a 5.5 lb, 25 inch long guided missile. The warhead weighs 2.2 lbs, and can either be a blast fragmentation or an Explosively formed penetrator for light anti-armor. It is a modular design, so they can make changes easily.

It has dual guidance modes. The primary one is when the firer locks the optical imager (digital Camera) onto a target before launch. Max range is quoted at two miles.

In a snapshot type situation at close range it can be fired with a straight inertial guidance.

Man portable launcher also weighs about 5 or 5.5 lbs.

Missile leaves the tube at about 100 mph so the firer is not injured, and there is little or no backblast to give away the position. The rocket fires for about 1.5 seconds, boosting the missile to about 600 mph, then it glides ("silently") in to the target. It is said to be able to hit targets crossing at 60mph. In a test without a warhead, it did a pretty solid job on a boat, and the warhead does a serious job on the cab of a truck.

It is intended to cost under $5k in production. It can also be used from lightweight UAVs, etc. They are working on a pod launcher that two men can lift onto a larger UAV (or helicopter, whatever) that will carry 30 missiles. Talk about an increase in sustained firepower! Sure, it won't kill an MBT from the front, but there are a heck of a lot more trucks, bunkers, etc around than MBTs.

 

The other bit was a nice little blurb about something I suggested a year or two ago. There have been several semi-active laser guidance units designed for the 2.75 inch aerial rocket. They seem to work quite well, and similar to the Spike, an aircraft can carry a lot more of them than they can Hellfires. Their 10lb class warhead is effective on a lot of targets but without huge collateral damage.

 

Now, my idea, and someone has been testing it, is to use the same guidance/fuse system on the old Zuni 5" High Velocity Aerial Rocket. Nowhere near the velocity of the 2.75, but the warhead is a lot bigger.

Still, reasonably light, but a 20kg warhead is a whole different kettle of fish. Found a different link on it

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/106457/mbda-demos-semi_active-laser_guided-zuni-rocket.html

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

Sort of a random speculation that popped into my head, and I figured this'd be the place to post it...

 

Why are the Japanese so obsessed with top-break revolvers?

 

Granted, they're really cool looking, but the design basically doesn't work with high power modern loads. Despite that little fact it seems like they're EVERYWHERE in Japanese popular media.