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Cool Guns for your Games

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

Or 4d6 RKA' date=' Reduced Penetration - if you hit, you're going to hit twice...[/quote']

 

If you go this route, then you need to reduce the AF from 20 to as little as 5.

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

Heh, very workable regardless. Playing with a bunch of weapons builds at the moment to flesh out a VPP build. May toss this one in as well....

 

~Rex

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

2d6-1 for .45 ACP is about right scale wise. It's not really about the numbers' date=' but what those numbers do to the target. .45 ACP makes things Dead. Pretty much one of the best Man Stopper Rounds out there and one of the best there ever will be. One .45 ACP round to center of mass = a casualty, hence you need enough Average Body to make sure that happens to your average target. [/quote']

 

Not at all true: I've read too many reports about targets taking 3+ .45 rounds to the centre of mass and not only still standing but still fighting and acting normally. Here's the estimable cpt Fairbairn again: "… the sergeant returned the fire swiftly and effectively with a .45 Colt automatic, commencing at about 10 feet and firing his sixth and last shot at 3 feet as he rapidly closed in on his opponent. Later, it was found that of those six shots, four had struck fleshy parts of the body, passing clean through, while one bullet remained in the shoulder and another had lodged near the heart. Yet, in spite of all this, the robber was still on his feet and was knocked unconscious by the butt of the sergeant’s pistol as he was attempting to escape by climbing over the counter.”

 

We could dismiss that as a freak incident, if it wasn't for the fact that I have seen multiple reports of similar incidents (Fairbairn gives another very similar one in his book, with an even heavier calibre pistol). The fact that people often are only slightly affected by high calibre pistol wounds to the torso matches with my dad's experience: he used a .45 and had years of combat experience, including plenty of house to house fighting at Cassino. It matches my own, pretty limited experience too. I have myself seen a guy take two 7.62s through the chest and continue to stand, jump around, shout and afterwards run. He died, of course, and I can personally confirm that both rounds went right through his lungs and out his back, but he was up and active for about a minute, a minute and a half or maybe even longer*, before he collapsed.

 

I sure as hell wouldn't want to take a .45 to the torso, but in the words of the FBI Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness study "Kinetic Energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "Knock down power" is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through large, blood-bearing organs ..." - and that's based on analysis of hundreds of shooting incidents.

 

All that said, I do agree that you want to work from effect. A torso hit with a .45 (at 2d6-1) will do (on average) 6 BOD/18 STUN: not enough to kill outright, but certainly a serious wound, and enough to stun most opponents. It has an over 40% chance of reaching over 20 STUN (dropping an average opponent) and a 10% chance of doing 10 BOD - a 1 shot kill, as an average opponent will be down unconscious and bleeding to death in very short order. That actually sounds pretty good, given what we know from reports of actual shootings.

 

cheers, Mark

 

*it's not like I was checking my watch, but he had to cover quite a lot of ground to reach us, once he realised he had been shot: like a lot of people, he didn't seem to recognise that he had been shot at first.

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

In other words, minimum BODY, minimum STUN - a distressingly common occurance in our games when killing attacks are used. :D

 

I am curious as to what percentatge of the people shot multiple times by large-calibur rounds and shrugging the hits off are on drugs at the time...

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

In other words, minimum BODY, minimum STUN - a distressingly common occurance in our games when killing attacks are used. :D

 

I am curious as to what percentatge of the people shot multiple times by large-calibur rounds and shrugging the hits off are on drugs at the time...

 

That's a question I don't think can be answered, but not many, I suspect. As I've noted in the past, I've been shot and almost killed, and seriously? It didn't hurt much. I've inflicted far more pain on myself with a minor cut or graze. That might sound odd, but your body tends to shut down the pain response in high-stress situations. As the FBI report I mentioned noted, if somebody's excited, they'll often just shrug off wounds that later turn out to be fatal.

 

cheers, Mark

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

Part of it is just dumb luck...if the bullet passes through the body without tearing through a major organ, then a person can likely keep going. OTOH a .17 caliber varmint round entering the heart cavity or hitting the carotid or jugular in the neck may kill someone nearly instantly.

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

That's a question I don't think can be answered' date=' but not many, I suspect. As I've noted in the past, I've been shot and almost killed, and seriously? It didn't hurt much. I've inflicted [b']far[/b] more pain on myself with a minor cut or graze. That might sound odd, but your body tends to shut down the pain response in high-stress situations. As the FBI report I mentioned noted, if somebody's excited, they'll often just shrug off wounds that later turn out to be fatal.

 

cheers, Mark

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Gusenberg

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

That's a question I don't think can be answered' date=' but not many, I suspect. As I've noted in the past, I've been shot and almost killed, and seriously? It didn't hurt much. I've inflicted [b']far[/b] more pain on myself with a minor cut or graze. That might sound odd, but your body tends to shut down the pain response in high-stress situations. As the FBI report I mentioned noted, if somebody's excited, they'll often just shrug off wounds that later turn out to be fatal.

 

cheers, Mark

 

On the other hand, HERO is trying for cinematic 'realism', so killing a target with one bullet is just fine. That said, 6E's 1/2d6 STUN for KAs and allowing PD to subtract from the STUIN done by a KA works well with what you're saying.

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

One could adjust for Hit Locations as well. I've never been a fan of the bullets I've been hit with in any of their caliber. However I think I would still take being shot over the 5 stabbings I've had to go through. I've had a lot of luck though getting very close to realistic results, by building for effect. Then again I also find Phoenix Command to be a fun fast and rules light game, heh.....

 

~Rex

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

Okay, I've added as an idea for the unofficial APG 3 thread, advantages for blasts and KAs that would make it easier for an attack to cause bleeding, impairing or disabling injuries(temporary or otherwise)--without necessarily increasing overall lethality. There could probably also be some sort of advantage that causes you to die faster(and a similar limitation that makes it slower) after reaching 0 body(femoral or carotid artery, anyone?).

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

One could adjust for Hit Locations as well. I've never been a fan of the bullets I've been hit with in any of their caliber. However I think I would still take being shot over the 5 stabbings I've had to go through. I've had a lot of luck though getting very close to realistic results, by building for effect. Then again I also find Phoenix Command to be a fun fast and rules light game, heh.....

 

~Rex

 

Oh dear. I forgot Phoenix Command. All. The. Charts.

 

I found abunch of their rules while cleaning up around the house recently. Modern warfare, cowboy,

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

I found abunch of their rules while cleaning up around the house recently. Modern warfare' date=' cowboy,[/quote']

 

A copy is in the library adjacent to the game cave. It calls to me -- but that way lies madness.

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

Incidentally' date=' I'm reminded of the elaborate lengths Aftermath went to to try to accurately gauge firearms damage(Bullet Damage Group and whatnot). I still kinda like that game...[/quote']

 

Didn''t it have 30 hit locations, with the Vitals being heart/lung/spine?

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

I did enjoy their (simplified?) Aliens sourcebook.

 

As did I. I think I still have mine in storage somewhere. I don't know if it's canon, but I did enjoy reading about how Alien Queens came in stages from 1 to 10, and the one in the movie was a 1...

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

As did I. I think I still have mine in storage somewhere. I don't know if it's canon' date=' but I did enjoy reading about how Alien Queens came in stages from 1 to 10, and the one in the movie was a 1...[/quote']

 

Well, it was a 'young' one and hadn't had chance to gain many levels.

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