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Cool Guns for your Games

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

Awesome. Thanks for sharing this. The recoil compensation system in these is extremely clever, and I'm glad to see they've made it to market.

 

I've shot a Tommy Gun (M-1928) chambered in .45 ACP, and the lift was quite pronounced. I'd love to try one of these Kriss SMGs and see if it stays on target like they claim...

 

EDIT: Forgot to add that I've had these incorporated in my cyberpunk game since I first heard of them back in 2006 or 2007, using the following stats:

 

                                                       STR  PER  A/R
Name             Cal    OCV  RMod   Dam   STUNx  Shots  Min  Mod  Cost   Mass  Notes
-------------  -------  ---  ----  -----  -----  -----  ---  ---  -----  ----  ---------
PDI Super X     10mm    +1    +1   2d6-1  1d6-1   32    10   +4   61/19  1.90  AF5, iRC3
PDI Super V    .45 ACP  +1    +1   2d6-1   1d6    28    10   +4   67/20  2.00  AF5, iRC3

Looks like I'll need to modify the magazine capacity down to 25 since I was guessing at the final max capacity.

 

Is that 10mm Auto? Because if so, it has at least 25% more muzzle energy than the most powerful .45 ACP loads. I'd either make the rounds completely equal or else up the 10 to 2d6 KA.

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

Is that 10mm Auto? Because if so' date=' it has at least 25% more muzzle energy than the most powerful .45 ACP loads. I'd either make the rounds completely equal or else up the 10 to 2d6 KA.[/quote']

Yeah, that's a good catch...and another area where I might need to make updates.

 

When I initially developed the weapons in my campaign, I simply categorized a standard "10mm" round as a metric hybrid somewhere between the .40 S&W and the .45 ACP...not realizing that the 10mm Auto was actually an existing (and very powerful) caliber.

 

But with so many of these 10mm weapons currently "in play", I need to decide whether I want the keep my "10mm" as a non-existent hybrid or reclassify it as the 10mm Auto. Since it's easier to keep it as a hybrid, I've left the stats alone. I think I'm more inclined to keep it as is because I definitely want there to be some separation (in game mechanics) between the most powerful handguns and basic assault rifles. If the plethora of 10mm handguns/machine pistols/SMGs current circulating in my campaign end up with 2d6 RKA and the same +1 STUNx, there's very little incentive to upgrade to the larger and more expensive assault rifles...which really need to dish out significantly more damage than pistol rounds to remain realistic. And if I have to further increase my assault rifles to make them noticeably more powerful, then I'd have to revamp all my armor levels to compensate...and I spent a LOT of time tinkering with my armor levels to make them balanced with the first batch of weapon stats.

 

Oh, the neverending trials and tribulations of the modern gamemaster...

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

Nope: just the Garand and whatever .30-06 ammo is feasible.

 

 

 

The problem with this is that he would have to get very close (he is experienced with throwing things, but no expert), and while he has a decent investment in Stealth, it isn't at special-ops level.

 

Neither of my uncles were older than 10 at the time of the above incident, nor had they any special ops training. Unless your soldier has some sort of palsy that makes it difficult to hold a rock all he has to do is keep one handy while he's going through the woods. Small animals often fail to recognize the danger of thrown objects until it is demonstrated to them. Even I, with a bad arm, could conceivably knock a squirrel out of a tree with a rock. A physically fit person should be a major threat to rabbits, squirrels, etc. at ranges up to about 50 feet. More if they have experience throwing projectiles. If he has access to nails (or even heavy, sharp sticks) he could make darts that would be fairly accurate and, with practice, more accurate at greater distances than a similar-weight rock is capable of.

 

Shooting small game with a .30-06 is akin to firing a tank's main weapon at an elephant. Sure, he'll be dead, but you won't find much edible after explosive tenderizing. Why is it so important for him to use his rifle to take small game?

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

If you put bird-shot in front of a standard .30-06 charge, it would still explode small animals with efficiency. If you loaded empty shells with a custom (lesser) charge to propel the shot at lower (but still deadly to small animals) velocities, that might work as well. Does your veteran have access to other weapons?

 

I wasn't kidding about the rock, either. Two of my mom's brother's were hunting with a .22 caliber rifle back in the '30s (they were just kids, really) and they spotted a squirrel on a branch. One brother had the rifle and wanted the shells; the other brother had the shells and wanted the rifle. Eventually one of them, exasperated, picked up a stone and hurled it at the squirrel, knocking it out of its tree, killing it. They ate squirrel that night.

 

It is possible to have/make a chamber insert in the shape of a .30-06 case, that has a .22 lr round in it, the insert works as a chamber and short barrel. however, accuracy might be lousy; it would have to be manually/singly loaded, and it would require prior access to a gunsmith. Downloaded shells could work, but would require some form of loading equipment, and would be taking a big risk. Some powders, if they are not filling up enough of the case, can detonate, instead of deflagrate (I think that is the right term, though burn works). The difference? a gun that does not stay in one piece.

 

With the right powder, and some kind of basic loading equipment, it would be easy to make a small game load, even using lead bullets. Heck, if it were cleaned promptly and carefully, you could even use black powder. It would not be good for the mechanism, but...

I can't remember whether M1s were made with chrome lined bores. That would help.

 

For a carryable loading tool, there is the old Ideal/Lyman 310 http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/dies/lyman-310-tool.php

 

I don't know if it has ever been made in .30-06, or whether it could be adapted to it.

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

If All I have it the Full Sized Any Rifle and I'm looking to eat a squirrel. I'm gonna kill it with a Rock. Doesn't take much.

 

~Rex

 

snares. a david style sling. blowgun if bamboo is available. light bow would work fine, even a simple stick/self bow.

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

Yeah, that's a good catch...and another area where I might need to make updates.

 

When I initially developed the weapons in my campaign, I simply categorized a standard "10mm" round as a metric hybrid somewhere between the .40 S&W and the .45 ACP...not realizing that the 10mm Auto was actually an existing (and very powerful) caliber.

 

But with so many of these 10mm weapons currently "in play", I need to decide whether I want the keep my "10mm" as a non-existent hybrid or reclassify it as the 10mm Auto. Since it's easier to keep it as a hybrid, I've left the stats alone. I think I'm more inclined to keep it as is because I definitely want there to be some separation (in game mechanics) between the most powerful handguns and basic assault rifles. If the plethora of 10mm handguns/machine pistols/SMGs current circulating in my campaign end up with 2d6 RKA and the same +1 STUNx, there's very little incentive to upgrade to the larger and more expensive assault rifles...which really need to dish out significantly more damage than pistol rounds to remain realistic. And if I have to further increase my assault rifles to make them noticeably more powerful, then I'd have to revamp all my armor levels to compensate...and I spent a LOT of time tinkering with my armor levels to make them balanced with the first batch of weapon stats.

 

Oh, the neverending trials and tribulations of the modern gamemaster...

 

That is another reason I strongly disagree with making the .45 acp 2d6-1. You could simply argue that the extra muzzle energy is still within the damage range, and that it is the diameter/bullet weight of the .45 that adds the stun multiple.

 

Most .45 acp about 430-70 ft lbs, +p 185 gr. a bit over 500 ft lbs.

 

Many 10mm loads at 600 ft lbs, but a lot are in the 450-550 range too, iirc.

How is the .357 written up now? The 10mm usually uses a heavier bullet at a bit lower speed for similar energy. In some loads the .357 exceeds the 10mm. Then you have to look at barrel length and cylinder gap on a revolver versus none in an automatic.

 

I wish Cor-bon would work a deal with Barnes to make a 160 gr DPX style bullet with a "powerball" in the nose, loaded at the velocity they have the current powerball at, about 1250, iirc.

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

Why is it so important for him to use his rifle to take small game?

 

It's the ranged weapon type (Rifle) he's most skilled with, and the only one he has (outside of scrounging for aerodynamic enough rocks).

 

It is possible to have/make a chamber insert in the shape of a .30-06 case, that has a .22 lr round in it, the insert works as a chamber and short barrel. however, accuracy might be lousy; it would have to be manually/singly loaded, and it would require prior access to a gunsmith. Downloaded shells could work, but would require some form of loading equipment, and would be taking a big risk. Some powders, if they are not filling up enough of the case, can detonate, instead of deflagrate (I think that is the right term, though burn works). The difference? a gun that does not stay in one piece.

 

With the right powder, and some kind of basic loading equipment, it would be easy to make a small game load, even using lead bullets. Heck, if it were cleaned promptly and carefully, you could even use black powder. It would not be good for the mechanism, but...

I can't remember whether M1s were made with chrome lined bores. That would help.

 

For a carryable loading tool, there is the old Ideal/Lyman 310 http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/dies/lyman-310-tool.php

 

I don't know if it has ever been made in .30-06, or whether it could be adapted to it.

 

Thanks, gewing. I'll have to see if the character can commission a gunsmith that's skilled enough (the world may not have Garands), with a good degree of secrecy.

 

snares. a david style sling. blowgun if bamboo is available. light bow would work fine' date=' even a simple stick/self bow.[/quote']

 

Note to self: boost Survival (Woodland) and Tracking.

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

It's the ranged weapon type (Rifle) he's most skilled with, and the only one he has (outside of scrounging for aerodynamic enough rocks).

 

 

 

Thanks, gewing. I'll have to see if the character can commission a gunsmith that's skilled enough (the world may not have Garands), with a good degree of secrecy.

 

 

 

Note to self: boost Survival (Woodland) and Tracking.

 

If they have gunsmithing at all, they cold probably make a chamber insert. Even if he disassembled some rounds of ammo, that would provide one primer per round. Then make a chamber insert that has a .308 bore all the way to the primer pocket, insert the primer, put a small amount of powder in the hole. It would work as a reduced capacity case, and allow a small game load using the same .30-06 bullet. At a guess, 1/4-1/2 the powder from a full power load, would probably give somewhere in the 1200-1600 fps range. Much less destructive on small game.

 

edit: or he could always go for headshots...

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

If they have gunsmithing at all' date=' they cold probably make a chamber insert. Even if he disassembled some rounds of ammo, that would provide one primer per round. Then make a chamber insert that has a .308 bore all the way to the primer pocket, insert the primer, put a small amount of powder in the hole. It would work as a reduced capacity case, and allow a small game load using the same .30-06 bullet. At a guess, 1/4-1/2 the powder from a full power load, would probably give somewhere in the 1200-1600 fps range. [b'] Much less destructive on small game[/b].

 

Would an AP round, on top of what you have suggested, be less destructive too?

 

edit: or he could always go for headshots...

 

Headshotting a hare or muskrat...ouch.

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

Would an AP round, on top of what you have suggested, be less destructive too?

 

 

 

Headshotting a hare or muskrat...ouch.

 

shots would probably be at under 50 yards. not all that hard. well... mostly

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

Wait, if this guy has access to skilled artisans, why not just have someone make him a small crossbow? Sacrificing irreplaceable high-powered rifle ammunition to kill SQUIRRELS strikes me as a very foolish move any way you slice it. I'll repeat the question that someone else asked: WHY is it so important that he hunt the small game with the Garand?

 

Edit: a boomerang would also be useful: not the returning toy boomerangs, but basically a heavy stick, carved to fly straight and true and also to present a narrow striking edge. Something like that would take out a squirrel, bird, or rabbit quite nicely.

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

As for ammo to hunt with I suggest using 'Remington Accelerators'. They are a standard sized case (in this instance for a 30-06) with a spacer called a sabot around a sub-caliber projectile to make the projectile fit the bore of the rifle.

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

As for ammo to hunt with I suggest using 'Remington Accelerators'. They are a standard sized case (in this instance for a 30-06) with a spacer called a sabot around a sub-caliber projectile to make the projectile fit the bore of the rifle.

 

Do they play well with older guns?

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

And don't forget that 2 7shot tubes on top... of the UTS-15, so u can load lethal on 1 side on nonlethal loads on the other side. And swap from 1 to the other.

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

And don't forget that 2 7shot tubes on top... of the UTS-15' date=' so u can load lethal on 1 side on nonlethal loads on the other side. And swap from 1 to the other.[/quote']

 

No, it's an alternating feed.

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

{...snip...}

 

For a carryable loading tool, there is the old Ideal/Lyman 310 http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/dies/lyman-310-tool.php

 

I don't know if it has ever been made in .30-06, or whether it could be adapted to it.

Lyman also makes (made?) a full sized single-stage press that is quite portable {link}. It's embarrassing that I can't recall the model number, since I've got one in my basement. It uses standard dies, so I can't see any reason why it wouldn't handle .30-06.

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

You likely would never need to fire it--your adversary would see you taking aim and say, "I ain't gettin' shot with that! I give up! Please--I give up!"

 

It could happen. ;)

 

Heh, I've gotten that open carrying a few of the weapons I have left. Especially from my deputy sheriff neighbor across the parking lot.......

 

~Rex

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Re: Cool Guns for your Games

 

So this weekend I am hitting the range and I'll be renting one of these. I've been eyeballing them and the rifle version for a while now and I wander off back to my 1911 fetish for a bit and then for some reason, I keep coming back to these as a carry weapon and the rifle as an all purpose trail gun.

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