Zeropoint Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games It's a problem that double-barreled rifles have ALWAYS had. With the classic African big game rifles, it didn't matter much because they were meant to be used at short range. With a rifle like this, I don't know . . . I guess you'd sight it in for one barrel so you could hit at range, and . . . live with the ammo waste, in exchange for double the close-in firepower? Use it for enhanced suppressive fire, where you're not really expecting to hit anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I suppose that assault rifles were designed for close- to medium-range use anyway. But still. I mean, what does that thing weigh? And do two 5.56mm cartridges still weigh less than a single 7.62mm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games The Medusa Model 47 is a revolver capable of firing different calibers of bullet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games It's a problem that double-barreled rifles have ALWAYS had. With the classic African big game rifles' date=' it didn't matter much because they were meant to be used at short range. With a rifle like this, I don't know . . . I guess you'd sight it in for one barrel so you could hit at range, and . . . live with the ammo waste, in exchange for double the close-in firepower? Use it for enhanced suppressive fire, where you're not really expecting to hit anything?[/quote'] And here I was under the impression that those rifles were meant to be used one barrel at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games And here I was under the impression that those rifles were meant to be used one barrel at a time. Oh, they are, unless you have something against intact collar bones. I just meant that if the barrels hit four inches apart at 50 yards, that's good enough to be "minute of charging cape buffalo". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games On the double barrel weapon, I believe convergance is the term used. At a certain distance the bullets will cross. On a double barrel shotgun that distance might be only 20 yards, on a traditional double rifle 50 maybe 100 yards, on a P-47 (8x 50 caliber machineguns) I believe it was 500-1000 yards. One of the first submachineguns was a double barrel weapon, although it was really more of a short range low powered light machinegun. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villar-Perosa_aircraft_submachine_gun I doubt the double M-16 thing is anything more than a coolness factor weapon, it seems very impractical for any serious use. Don't need a double barrel on a magazine fed auto (or semi auto) rifle to speed practical rof like you do a double single shot rifle, it is already possible to get a 5.56mm rifle upwards of 1000 rpm cyclic without the double barrel, and there are 100 rd drums available, so that doesn't seem like a need either. Last 2x 5.56mm isn't going to penetrate as well as a 7.62mm so short of video game physics you aren't going to improve performance against armor either. That being said I always though the double barrel Remington 1100 semi auto 12 gauge was pretty cool (although I wouldn't want to carry around a 16lb shotgun). Never went anywhere but was one of those cool experimental super weapons built for the SEALS during the Vietnam war. As I recall they built some full auto 1100s with standard tube mags and 10 round box mags too. I used to have a book with all these really cool shotguns in it, can't remember now if they ever tried a full auto version of the double 1100 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games On the double barrel weapon, I believe convergance is the term used. At a certain distance the bullets will cross. Nope. The barrels can point any which way relative to each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Nope. The barrels can point any which way relative to each other. fire each barrel at a target at a specified distance, then note the point of impact of each projectile on the target, comparing where the projectile fired from the first barrel strikes in relationship to the projectile fired from the second barrel. If the points of impact for the two projectiles on the target are outside the rifle builder's specific parameters, further regulation is called for, with adjustments made to the powder charge and/or the rifle barrels themselves. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_rifle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I stand corrected. Apparently, with enough skilled handwork, it IS possible to make a double rifle in which the barrels shoot in the same plane and converge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Of course, that still doesn't explain why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Williamson Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games So the projectiles have a predictable path in relation to the sights on the weapon. A barrel on either side of the sights means shot's will always be off target - designing a convergence permits more accurate fire for a double shot at a specific range and less variation for shots not at the optimal range until targets go too far past the convergence point. All rotary cannons use convergence as well for the same reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I dunno, it seems like it would be just as useful for a rifle to have the barrels exactly parallel, so that one always hit half an inch to the left, and one always hit half an inch to the right. Express rifles, in particular, just aren't meant for situations where aiming that finely would ever come up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I dunno' date=' it seems like it would be just as useful for a rifle to have the barrels exactly parallel, so that one always hit half an inch to the left, and one always hit half an inch to the right. Express rifles, in particular, just aren't meant for situations where aiming that finely would ever come up.[/quote'] I am not sure that was really possible in the old days. with modern CNC machining.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I didn't think it was possible either, but of course, it turns out that I was underestimating what can be done with low-tech methods. Apparently the way that a double rifle is regulated is by building the action with two separate free-floating barrels. Then, the gunsmith will braze or silver solder a wedge in between them at the muzzle . . . and through repeated trial and error, numerous tedious sessions of shoot, unbraze, adjust, rebraze, will eventually get the two barrels to shoot as close as his patience and budget will allow, which for the best pieces meant that the bore lines would meet at some desired range. At that point, the barrels are sliver soldered together along with the rib, so that in theory, they'll stay in the same alignment forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I didn't think it was possible either' date=' but of course, it turns out that I was underestimating what can be done with low-tech methods. Apparently the way that a double rifle is regulated is by building the action with two separate free-floating barrels. Then, the gunsmith will braze or silver solder a wedge in between them at the muzzle . . . and through repeated trial and error, numerous tedious sessions of shoot, unbraze, adjust, rebraze, will eventually get the two barrels to shoot as close as his patience and budget will allow, which for the best pieces meant that the bore lines would meet at some desired range. At that point, the barrels are sliver soldered together along with the rib, so that in theory, they'll stay in the same alignment forever.[/quote'] yup. wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Is it possible to attach an underbarrel/attachment shotgun (such as the KAC Masterkey) to another shotgun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Is it possible to attach an underbarrel/attachment shotgun (such as the KAC Masterkey) to another shotgun? Don't see why not; I'm pretty sure you just mount it to any picatinny rail. Can't find an example of it being done, though. Well, except for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Don't see why not; I'm pretty sure you just mount it to any picatinny rail. Wouldn't it at least tend to be a hassle if the primary shotgun is pump action-based? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Williamson Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games There was a hilarious pic of a guy with an M79 grenade launcher with an M203 under barrel grenade launcher attached in a book I had. It would work too, but man, it was just silly. What would be the point of that double shotgun rig? Especially when you have guns like the USAS12, Striker 12 and Spas15? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games There was a hilarious pic of a guy with an M79 grenade launcher with an M203 under barrel grenade launcher attached in a book I had. It would work too' date=' but man, it was just silly. What would be the point of that double shotgun rig? Especially when you have guns like the USAS12, Striker 12 and Spas15?[/quote'] One barrel holds magnesium/zirconium/phosphorous/etc shells, while the other holds rock salt: handy for the monster hunter facing multiple threats and unable to change a magazine/eject a shell or swing aroung a different slung shotgun in the middle of battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games One barrel holds magnesium/zirconium/phosphorous/etc shells' date=' while the other holds rock salt: handy for the monster hunter facing multiple threats and unable to change a magazine/eject a shell or swing aroung a different slung shotgun in the middle of battle.[/quote'] Actually, there are shotguns with multiple magazines you'd want to use instead. One has four in a rotating configuration. Another (the Neostad) has two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Something like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Something like this? Yes. Also, the one with the four-tube magazine is the SRM ARMS MODEL 1216. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I didn't think it was possible either' date=' but of course, it turns out that I was underestimating what can be done with low-tech methods. Apparently the way that a double rifle is regulated is by building the action with two separate free-floating barrels. Then, the gunsmith will braze or silver solder a wedge in between them at the muzzle . . . and through repeated trial and error, numerous tedious sessions of shoot, unbraze, adjust, rebraze, will eventually get the two barrels to shoot as close as his patience and budget will allow, which for the best pieces meant that the bore lines would meet at some desired range. At that point, the barrels are sliver soldered together along with the rib, so that in theory, they'll stay in the same alignment forever.[/quote'] Actually, you can skip all the tedious soldering and brazing. Olde-timey gunsmiths used a rig somewhat like a double vice, with a screw-wedge to set up the barrels, and then fixed the barrels in place after adjustment: this was how bespoke double-barreled shotguns were made, among other things. The customer tells the gunsmith what range he prefers the convergence to be, and then has it built to that range. With a little practice, the owner can then put the load from both barrels in more or less the same space, or can estimate pretty accurately where each barrel will go ... as long as he's good at estimating range. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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