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Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?


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Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Maybe a brief discussion of how long after the 'end of the world as we know it' might help frame campaigns?

 

Day of the Triffids, for example, talks about the day it happens and the few years following. The Chrysalids begins centuries later, although it repeatedly refers to the event. Two very different post-apocalyptic campaigns.

 

A Canticle for Leibowitz goes further, and covers centuries, starting a few generations after and carrying on to the rebuilding of a new modern world. It might be interesting to have a campaign that hits critical points in future history for a few sessions, and then 'reconvenes' a couple of centuries later, after the impact of what the players did has played out on the world, in this fashion.

 

And, as Girl Genius reminds, just because a world is post-Apocalypse, it doesn't have to be _our_ world post-Apocalypse. At least, I think I'd notice if people in our world looked like the ancestors of Agatha Heterodyne.

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Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Alas' date=' you shall have to be cross. I don't want to cite specific campaign sites or similar resources in a genre book, if for no other reason than I don't want to look like I'm officially "endorsing" something like that. I'd rather let people find those things on their own. ;)[/quote']

 

This is wise. Such references would serve to confuse readers.

 

Keith "Savage" Curtis

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Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

This is wise. Such references would serve to confuse readers.

 

Keith "Savage" Curtis

 

:mad: Way to head off bad feelings, Keith! I was all set to say "in before the lock".

 

 

Anyway, more to the point of the thread, I think it would be pretty cool to have at least a skeletal system for "Mad Maxing" vehicles...something that will say what weapons can and can't be mounted on a '71 Nova, and how it's going to accelerate and handle after you weld a half-inch of sheet metal around the passenger compartment.

 

A lot of people complain that the Hero vehicle rules are too wide open, and that there's nothing stopping anyone from mounting a 155mm gun on their skateboard, and while that's not a problem in supposed-to-be-wide-open genres like Champions, it can be annoying in a more realistic setting. While a complete Car Wars-like system of vehicle construction would be beyond the scope of a genre book (especially such a broad genre), some guidelines about added weight, unbalanced weight, recoil (STR Mins for mounted weapons, applied to the vehicles' STR?) would go a long way to a decent Mad Max setting.

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Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I know you're going to discus different ways to end the world. I thing you should arrange them by arctype. For example:

 

Monster Apocalypse Zombies are the most famous here, but others are possible. Aliens have been mentioned on this thread, and Reign of Fire was an example of dragons ending the world. Several Our-robots-are-killing-us apocalypses have been made. Basically, all this kind of apocalypse needs is a breed of monster that appears and becomes to prevalent to fight back. Fomorians storming New York! The faries have started stealing babies, and you'd best hope your bullets are dull and tarnished, because the leprechauns steal anything shiney. (irish monster apocalypse)

 

Cataclysm Apocalypse This is the classic meteor impact. It can also be mankind-induced Environmental apocalypses as in The Day After Tomorrow, though you should remind GM's this could result in an ugly politics debate. Just include a few different possiblities here, even wild ones. Shifts in the earths orbit? Gamma burst from space (that somehow left something alive)?

 

Localized apocalypse See batman: no mans land. The apocalypse doesn't have to include the whole world, though it usually does. If the world decides a given place should just be cordoned off and whatever is in there can just deal with itself, then that place can definitely feel like the end of the world. Look at the horn of Africa for a possible example (well, the world hasn't quite cordoned it off yet, but you can see how it'd go)

 

War Apocalypse Nuclear/Chemical/biological threats destroy everything. Give a long list of possible reasons for this war to be fought, both contemporary and ways-things-could-have-gone (cuban missile crisis, etc) Lots of fun with mutants here (radiation mutates you, chemical disfigures you, biological drives you mad and so forth). Each has a different effect, so explore them all, and do mention different chemicals and biowarfare agents.

 

Everything just fell apart This isn't necessarily the same as war apocalypse, but it can have some of the same elements. Here some vital element of civilization disappears. This can be Oil-field depletion, a blight that wipes out the worlds crops, or even a religeon that advocates mass suicides. Also see David Brin's The Postman for an example of a world where people lost hope in Democracy and stopped working together. This type also includes weird apocalypses, like children of men, where all the worlds women become sterile at once.

 

It all happened so long ago This isn't a question of type so much as of time. I prefer PA that takes place maybe 5 or ten years after the end, but I've also seen books start as the world is still in its death throes and books where the end was centuries ago.

 

 

Other than that, I second the motion that you include more infection and disease rules. These worlds should be deadly. I also agree that you should put in a timeline for how long it takes for stuff to decay (there was such a timeline on these boards earlier, I'll see if I can find it).

 

For the Villains section, I would like a Nuclear Sub captain that does whatever it takes to keep his little piece of order and civilization in tact. Also a leader of a settlement ala Thunderdome.

 

Oh, that reminds me, describe a dozen different government's and legal systems that crop up in an apocalypse. These'd be mostly dictatorships and tribal things, I suppose. But I really want to see barbaric and savage legal processes, like the one in thunderdome. A lawyer like you could just go wild with this.

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Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'd like to see a brief discussion on re-discovering technology. Something like research times, underlying technology required to produce higher technology, Maybe a touch on the downside/side effects of failed attempts to operate unfamiliar technology. IRRC there was a mention of something like this in Star Hero, about the effects of using higher and lower ATRI level equipment. An expansion on this as a guide to developing/redeveloping low tech items.

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Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'd like to see a brief discussion on re-discovering technology. Something like research times' date=' underlying technology required to produce higher technology, Maybe a touch on the downside/side effects of failed attempts to operate unfamiliar technology. IRRC there was a mention of something like this in Star Hero, about the effects of using higher and lower ATRI level equipment. An expansion on this as a guide to developing/redeveloping low tech items.[/quote']

 

Agreed. And it would be fun to see some discussion about the condition of technology. I tried to tap into this over in Wasteland Hero but never felt quite comfortable with it. You're far more competent to approach this from a game-engineering perspective.

 

On that note I think that there might be a case to emphasize Charges and the age of the ammunition/batteries/food supply, etc. If you find batteries or ammo, there would be a better chance after years of neglect that they wouldn't hold thier charge or one out of every few would be bad. It adds to the drama. Also these modern resources, if no longer manufactured, would also make excellent bartering tokens.

 

And how about jury-rigging. Please don't forget to emphasize the importance of the Post-Apoc 'Inventor' who can make a radio out of some spare electrical components and a toaster oven (and a coconut?). If this is covered in the Ultimate Skill then that's cool, but a reference to this is fitting to the genre IMO.

 

Which brings me around to bartering. I know I may be asking too much, but will this be expanded on? (Haven't gotten to the Ultimate Skill yet so if it's covered there that would be cool to reference in PAH). How about some kind of chart that shows the most valuable commodities to have? A bottle of whiskey for a case of dog food? A new song or riddle for a warm meal? Without civilization intact weird things could start to get valuable very quickly.

 

Random Mutation Tables? Unlike Fantasy or Supers, the 'High PA' genre is about ugly mutants and scarred survivors, not all effects of the 'After-Effect' will be beneficial! How about the effects of 'undomesticated animals'? Rampant packs of feral animals, no longer our best friends...

 

Also are you going to cover Radiation and Rampant Plagues? Or will The Ultimate Energy Projector cover those things sufficiently?

 

Any chance this book can come out in the next week or so? There's a dollar in it for you if it can! :celebrate

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Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Also are you going to cover Radiation and Rampant Plagues?

 

Well, I'll probably reprint the radiation info from SH (which is also in UEP) for more "realistic" games, and I'll certainly mention plagues as a cause of apocalypse, but that's about it.

 

 

Any chance this book can come out in the next week or so? There's a dollar in it for you if it can!

 

Sorry, I need the sleep more than I need the dollar. ;)

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Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Anyway, more to the point of the thread, I think it would be pretty cool to have at least a skeletal system for "Mad Maxing" vehicles...something that will say what weapons can and can't be mounted on a '71 Nova, and how it's going to accelerate and handle after you weld a half-inch of sheet metal around the passenger compartment.

 

A lot of people complain that the Hero vehicle rules are too wide open, and that there's nothing stopping anyone from mounting a 155mm gun on their skateboard, and while that's not a problem in supposed-to-be-wide-open genres like Champions, it can be annoying in a more realistic setting. While a complete Car Wars-like system of vehicle construction would be beyond the scope of a genre book (especially such a broad genre), some guidelines about added weight, unbalanced weight, recoil (STR Mins for mounted weapons, applied to the vehicles' STR?) would go a long way to a decent Mad Max setting.

 

With all due respect -- and I assure you I mean that -- there's no way in hell this is going to happen. ;) Not only does it focus way too much on one particular type of PA game/character, it's way too much work for the return and veers a little too much away from the general HERO philosophy. I think the rules in TUV are sufficient for vehicles for the vast majority of campaigns that want to emphasize 'em; GMs that want precise rules about equipment weight, acceleration, and so on can concoct them on their own. ;)

 

If I have a brainstorm along these lines I'll definitely include what I can. But for the most part this strikes me as something I won't be able to cover.

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Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Well, I'll probably reprint the radiation info from SH (which is also in UEP) for more "realistic" games, and I'll certainly mention plagues as a cause of apocalypse, but that's about it.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I need the sleep more than I need the dollar. ;)

 

How about the jury-rigging and bartering skills?

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Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

You may already have these to look at, but as a huge fan of the genre, I would highly recommend Aftermath, Morrow Project and Twilight 2000. Aftermath is still the ultimate resource for generic PA gaming rgardless of what system you use. MP and T2000 both have a large fan base and could draw those players to HERO.

 

 

Like StarHero I think there should be some discussion of hard science vs rubber science. Everybody talks about realistic PA gaming but I think we all know it would be rather depressing to play that we all die of disease, radiation or famine after 6 game weeks of play.

 

Rubber science "magic potions" like Aftermaths Polycellulac (healing and regeneration "medications"), and Morrow Projects Universal Antidote would be good write ups.

 

 

Also some discussion on how long it would take to rebuild civilzation (and if it is decades or centuries why?). In genre the "end of the world" takes centuries to recover from if not actually being the end of the civilized world, but why would it take that long? I don't expect a huge debate on the subject but some ideas of what would cause the long darkness vs a decade or two of slow recovery would be nice.

 

 

Thats it for now, I'm sure I will think of more later.

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Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Chapter Four: PA Sourcebook: Since' date=' like with Ninja Hero, we don't plan to produce supplements for PAH, we're going to include some example settings and related source material. Current plans for this chapter include: Amrica (a Low PA setting [no mutants, high tech, or magic'] inspired by such stories as the Pelbar Cycle novels, the Piers Anthony novel Battle Circle, and the movie The Road Warrior); After The Blast (a High PA setting filled with mutants, radiation-spawned powers, high tech from the pre-Blast world, and the like; it will include a large section of sample Mutation powers); the Moonshattered World (a High PA setting in which magic has returned to mix with the technology of the Ancients, inspired by Thundarr the Barbarian, the Fred Saberhagen novel Empire of the East, and similar sources); Darren's zombie apocalypse setting; Darren's religious apocalypse setting; Jason's setting Destinations (a Low PA campaign focused on issues of survival and "trek to safety"), and more.

 

Is there a possibility that a PA "alternate future" for the Champions Universe could be included? I remember one being mentioned in the back of the VIPER sourcebook "VIPERS in the Dust" I think was the name. Maybe that could be expanded a little bit and included here?

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Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Too bad about The Savage Earth not being included. I'd have loved to see a condensed version written up, and Keith to get a writing credit for it too. I don't think any one would be confused, either, especially if the size of the write-up was about the same as all the other write-ups. To balance things out, extra material from other worlds (Darren's stuff, for ex) could be posted up on the web too.

 

But you guys gotta do what you gotta do.

 

Don't forget game material: Twilight 2000 and Dark Conspiracy.

 

I'd love to see as large of a PA Sourcebook section as possible, with even treatment of all genres. No matter who picks up this book, should see even time devoted to their favored genre, as much as possible.

 

And include a discussion of Power Skill and Luck for the more cinematic genres. Remember we had a big discussion about Power Skill and that one guy who kept saying using Power Skill like M&M Pushing was totally forbidden by the Hero rules forever and ever amen no way? Drop a piano on this guy.

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Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Is there a possibility that a PA "alternate future" for the Champions Universe could be included? I remember one being mentioned in the back of the VIPER sourcebook "VIPERS in the Dust" I think was the name. Maybe that could be expanded a little bit and included here?

 

AAMOF we are thinking of a setting in which CU civilization collapses, leaving superhumans as sort of feudal rulers and such. No promises, but perhaps something will make its way into PAH.

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Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Here's some information I've picked up from some recent specials on History Channel and Discovery.

 

You may have heard that the Mayan calendar ends on the day we would know as December 21, 2012. Some scholars have interpreted this to be a prophecy of the end of the world.

 

Working independently and without knowledge of that fact, a scholar of I Ching applied the mathematics of that study to the calendar, and found that the most negative date in the I Ching time cycle would fall at exact same date: December 21, 2012.

 

Meanwhile, the Web Bot Project, a computer based system that uses Web pages from around the world to predict the future with stunning accuracy, has arrived at an impending date for a global cataclysm: December 21, 2012.

 

Astronomers have determined that Earth's solar system is, as a natural part of its orbit around the galactic core, about to cross the galactic equator. It will do so in 2012, and on December 21 of that year the Earth will be in perfect alignment with the sun and the galactic core. The theory (albeit one that I gather doesn't have much popularity) is that this could already be responsible for the increases in earthquakes, global warming, and other problems we've been having, and that the Earth's rotation, position near the sun, and magnetic poles could be drastically altered -- that the earth could be tilted so that (for example) the Bermuda Triangle becomes the North Pole in a matter of hours is not out of the question.

 

Finally there's the cycle of sunspot and solar flare activity. Like hurricane seasons on Earth, some high-activity phases are more severe than others. In 1849, for example, a solar flare disrupted Earth's magnetic field enough that auroras were seen in Rome, and telegraph wires around the world were disrupted. Predictions for the next high-activity phase are that it will be even more severe than that. And, you guessed it, the year for that phase is 2012.

 

So in about five years, if all this is accurate, the Earth will be literally turned on its side, the ice caps will quickly melt, most of our major cities will be destroyed, the majority of the population will be killed, and the survivors will be left with little more than a hollow shell of civilization as we know it.

 

Have a nice day. :D

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Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

So in about five years, if all this is accurate, the Earth will be literally turned on its side, the ice caps will quickly melt, most of our major cities will be destroyed, the majority of the population will be killed, and the survivors will be left with little more than a hollow shell of civilization as we know it.

 

Holy crap! Keith Curtis predicted it!

 

They're still giving away free land in Alaska right? I think I'll homestead up there and build me a nice tropical cabana.

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Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

A few Me Too’s:

• How to make mutation powers “feel” different than sorcery or alien tech, etc; especially when you have more than one of them present.

• Dystopian aspects of many settings.

• Storytelling considerations of Recent Apocs, vs “Many generations ago…”

• Discussion of “Mono-threat” (ala zombies) vs “poly-threats” (ala mutant-of-the-week).

 

For example' date=' what happens to infrastructure (steel and concrete, water, gas, power and communication lines) when they're no longer being maintained, and how long does the deterioration take? What if they become covered in water? How long do canned and dried food, ammunition, medicines, and fuels like gasoline remain viable? At what rate does forest or jungle typically reclaim an inhabited area, and ruins become covered by sand or soil?[/quote']

To the extent that data exists at all, it's probably buried in engineering textbooks, and I don't have the time to dig it up and convert it to game-ese. At best I can hazard semi-educated guesses. ;)

I for one would settle for semi-educated guesses. :D Seriously, I would love to see some material along these lines, and think that would actually be the most useful part of he book (for me). Doesn't need to be precise figures; just general guidelines. I suspect there may be more info available along these lines than you might think; I’ll do some poking about...

 

How about some kind of chart that shows the most valuable commodities to have? A bottle of whiskey for a case of dog food? A new song or riddle for a warm meal?

Neat idea, `tho likely very setting-specific. But maybe some guidance on how to set up exchange rates or create such a chart?

 

A few other thoughts:

 

Skills: Particularly for Recent-Apocs, some kind of Scrounging Skill is a must: reflecting the character’s ability to both locate and evaluate supplies, equipment, and weapons.

 

Re different “types” of Apocs, Exit Mundi is my favorite resource.

 

Lastly, a great many Post-Apocs also serve as Allegories For Our Times. In some the allegory is more overt, in others it's just subtext. But that sort of thing can get heavy-handed in an RPG, if poorly handled. So some discussion of how to handle this genre element would be helpful.

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