Hyper-Man Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 What method do you normally use to determine the reduced damage from the center of an explosion when the damage is killing? example: RKA 3d6-1, Explosion (+1/2) (60 Active Points) It's quite simple when it's a normal damage EB. 8d6 in center hex and remove highest remaining dice for every hex out. Killing damage is not so intuitive (for me at least). HM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtelson Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? It's a little more complicated for Killing attacks but not really to bad. You still order the dice from highest to lowest but instead of flat out removing them you reduce/change how you read them them - so Full D6 > halfd6> 0d6+1> Remove die leaving the next Full D6 > etc... Hope that was more helpful than confusing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? Given 3D6-1 (8DCs) the breakdown might go such: Roll: 4,2,5 total of: 10 Body Center: 10 (2+4+5-1) [3D6-1] Next: 7 (2+4+1) [2D6+1] Next: 6 (2+4) [2D6] Next: 5 (2+4-1) [2D6-1] or 4 (2+2) [1 1/2D6] Next: 3 (2+1) [1D6+1] Next: 2 (2) [1D6] Next: 1 (2-1) [1D6-1 or 1/2D6 same either way here] Next: 1 (1 pip) Basically... a bit of math for KA:Explosion is in order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted June 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? Thank you both. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't wonkier than I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? Thank you both. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't wonkier than I thought. Oh.. did we mention you had to hop around on one foot while touching your nose when doing the math? 5ER p724 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? I prefer this cool little dice-rolling ap provided by Dan Simon: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26898 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? We always simplify things by dropping 2 BODY off of the attack per hex away from the center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? We always simplify things by dropping 2 BODY off of the attack per hex away from the center. That's the method I use. Roll the attack as normal (including STUNx). For instance: 3d6K Explosive rolls 3, 6, 5 and STUNx 4 (5-1). The person at ground zero takes 14 BODY and 56 STUN. The person 1" away takes 12 BODY and 48 STUN. 2" away takes 10 BODY and 40 STUN. Makes it pretty easy and you don't have to play with crazy math and keeping track of what the dice actually rolled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted June 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? I prefer this cool little dice-rolling ap provided by Dan Simon: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26898 Yep, I had already bookmarked the thread when it came out. Problem is that I don't own a laptop yet so use of such apps in game is problematic at best. Die rolling is still an analog affair for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ockham's Spoon Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? I have always determined how many hexes away the center of the blast is and then subtract that many damage classes from the attack. Then each person hit gets a separate roll (unless they are low-level thugs or something). So with your 3d6 RKA EX, a person standing 2 hexes away gets hit by 2d6+1 RKA. This means someone close to the blast might conceivably take less damage than someone a bit further away, but to me this just reflects the random nature of explosions. ____________________________________________________________ "Trust me, I know what I'm doing." - Sledgehammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? I have always determined how many hexes away the center of the blast is and then subtract that many damage classes from the attack. Then each person hit gets a separate roll (unless they are low-level thugs or something). So with your 3d6 RKA EX' date=' a person standing 2 hexes away gets hit by 2d6+1 RKA. This means someone close to the blast might conceivably take less damage than someone a bit further away, but to me this just reflects the random nature of explosions.[/quote'] It seems unreasonable to me that an EB loses the highest DC first, but a KA would not. I'd be OK with this approach if it did the same for non-KA attacks, with all attacks rolled separately with the DC's appropriate based on distance. That would be a lot of rolling, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted June 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? Speaking of grenades, is there a mechanic in the current rules that allows a character to use their body to block the effect of an explosion and/or any full AOE attack to shield characters behind them that would otherwise be in the blast area? Should this be a possible mini-Limitation on those Advantages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtelson Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? I don't know if there's a rule, I've generally allowed characters to dive for cover onto a grenade to shield others (Depending on the situation I've applied a dice upcharge for absorbing the AOE/EXPL portion of the damage) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? Dive For Cover onto the grenade before it explodes is one thing. Shielding another target with your body from the explosion is another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? See page 259 of 5ER under "Non-Standard Attacks". Note that there are three methods given (the third of which is not recommended). Our group actually does it a fourth way(which is very similar to the third way): for each 1", take away the largest five Active Points by doing the largest reduction of (1) die to half-die, (2) half-die to 1 pip, or (3) 1 pip to zero. For instance, taking ghost-angel's 8DC (3d6-1) 4,2,5 roll, we would do the following: Center: 4+2+5-1 = 10 Next: 4+2+3 (5 taken to a half-die) -1 = 8 Next: 2 (4 taken to a half-die) +2+3-1 = 6 Next: 2+2+1 (half-die taken to 1 pip) -1 = 4 Next: 2+1 (2 taken to a half-die) +1-1 = 3 Next: 1 (half-die taken to 1 pip) +1+1-1 = 2 Next: 0 (1 pip taken to zero) +1+1-1 = 1 Next: 0 + 1 + 0 (1 pip taken to zero) -1 = 0 It's a bit wonky with the xd6-1 DCs, because in this example there's zero BODY at 7 hexes from the center, which should be 5 Active Points, which should be 1 BODY. Works out better with full dice. I think that ghost-angel's example is the 'correct' third way as mentioned on page 259. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? See page 259 of 5ER under "Non-Standard Attacks". Note that there are three methods given (the third of which is not recommended). Our group actually does it a fourth way(which is very similar to the third way): for each 1", take away the largest five Active Points by doing the largest reduction of (1) die to half-die, (2) half-die to 1 pip, or (3) 1 pip to zero. For instance, taking ghost-angel's 8DC (3d6-1) 4,2,5 roll, we would do the following: Center: 4+2+5-1 = 10 Next: 4+2+3 (5 taken to a half-die) -1 = 8 Next: 2 (4 taken to a half-die) +2+3-1 = 6 Next: 2+2+1 (half-die taken to 1 pip) -1 = 4 Next: 2+1 (2 taken to a half-die) +1-1 = 3 Next: 1 (half-die taken to 1 pip) +1+1-1 = 2 Next: 0 (1 pip taken to zero) +1+1-1 = 1 Next: 0 + 1 + 0 (1 pip taken to zero) -1 = 0 It's a bit wonky with the xd6-1 DCs, because in this example there's zero BODY at 7 hexes from the center, which should be 5 Active Points, which should be 1 BODY. Works out better with full dice. I think that ghost-angel's example is the 'correct' third way as mentioned on page 259. Technically, if you're going to work with half dice, you'd start with 2 1/2 dice rather than 3d6-1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? I don't know if mines the 'correct' way, just the strait -1 DC per 1" way, which is as the books notes time consuming. I had forgotten about the option of -1 Die per 3" - which is similar to -1DC per 1", and can produce the same kind of drop off you would get with EB where you can suddenly drop quickly as you move away from the epicenter of the explosion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? Well, to me the concept behind Explosion is that damage falls off as rapidly as possible (easy to see with Normal Damage Explosion). With a Killing Attack Explosion, the same concept should apply - which is why I don't care for 1d6 for the first 3" (too much damage too far out), nor for subtracting 2 Damage per hex (fixed subtraction instead of the largest amount subtracted first). I find myself in the unusual and unpleasant position of not liking the published rules, yet unable to suggest a better solution... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? Why is the regular method so hard? Halve the largest die, then reduce it to 1, then take it away altogether. Repeat as needed, until you take away the last 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? Why is the regular method so hard? Halve the largest die' date=' then reduce it to 1, then take it away altogether. Repeat as needed, until you take away the last 1.[/quote'] It's not hard. It's simply more time consuming most of the time. The alternate options for KA Explosions are simply a bit faster, not necessarily easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? Why is the regular method so hard? Halve the largest die' date=' then reduce it to 1, then take it away altogether. Repeat as needed, until you take away the last 1.[/quote']Not hard, but to me violates the spirit of Explosion, which is that damage drops off as rapidly as possible. Take 2d6 KEX with both as sixes: 6+6 = 12 3+6 = 9 (down 3) 1+6 = 7 (down 2) 0+6 = 6 (down 1) 0+3 = 3 (down 3) 0+1 = 1 (down 2) 0+0 = 0 (down 1) verses 6+6 = 12 3+6 = 9 (down 3) 3+3 = 6 (down 3) 1+3 = 4 (down 2) 1+1 = 2 (down 2) 0+1 = 1 (down 1) 0+0 = 0 (down 0) The second method makes the damage fall off as rapidly as possible. ********************** Hmmm. I've come full circle; I like the method my group uses (subtract the highest remaining Damage Class, whether that's die to half-die, half-die to 1 pip, or 1 pip to zero). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? Ah, I see what you're saying. That makes sense, although it is a bit slower than simply taking off a die per 3", especially if there's nothing in the intervening 3" that you need to bother applying damage to. There's probably no good middle ground on that though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Re: Killing Attack + Explosion Advantage? Yes, it is a bit slower, but most of the group I play with are computer programmers or engineers, so that's not an issue with us. I'm not claiming it's ANY kind of official way - just the one that (to me and my group) makes the most sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.