assault Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Originally posted by megaplayboy That's a writer decision and has little to do with the relative power of the characters:) No doubt. On the other hand, the "writer's decisions" largely fall into the hands of the players in an RPG. I said "largely", because of the role of the GM, of course. A bad GM will let the Mon-Els steal the scene. A good one will give the others some space. On a related topic, the Superman site I posted includes the first appearance of Ultra Boy (Superboy #98). Funnily enough, every Champions player's favourite munchkin didn't have his full set of powers then! He only had his "Penetra-vision" which, and I quote, "can generate heat, see great distances, and look through everything, INCLUDING lead. Superboy's X-Ray vision CAN'T see through lead!" (Emphasis in original). This is a character that can be generated. He's a normal with enhanced senses and a honkin' big attack. And he's Ultra Boy! One of the heavy hitters of the LSH started as a standard Champions character! All he needs is a few more slots on his multipower, or, for that matter, all he needs is for his biggest power to be turned into an MP, depending on how you initially build him. I've suggested that most of the LSH could be generated on 350 points plus 100 of hi-tech gear. This is true, but I didn't fully explore the significance of this. If we assume that this gear includes at least some armour, we have a lot of the necessary stuff of a viable Champions character tucked away in the standard gear. This leaves 350 points to buy a "normal" (a very good, superhero grade one) with a fairly limited set of powers. This can result in a very seriously powerful character. Don't mess with Lightning Lad! He probably has something like a 16 dice attack! And the skill levels to allow him to hit... Of course, he doesn't want to get hit, but he probably has enough defences to survive. I think in the case of a big team like the LSH, it would probably be best for each player to take on two or three characters. That way, each player can play a heavy hitter occasionally, and alternate it with some of the more modest characters, and possibly even one of the weaker ones, with the defensive powers that require them to use their brains to deal with the scenario. All this would require the GM to put a bit of thought in their scenarios, to ensure that brute force isn't enough to deal with the problem. That way, Mon-El can happily bash the Khund invasion fleet, while Phantom Girl gets to the heart of the problem. Meanwhile, Matter-Eater Lad can eat the Plot Device Machine... In this situation, I would take: Cosmic Boy, Ultra Boy, and Invisible Kid (Lyle or Jacques, depending on the period, I don't care...). And yes, this would, indeed be lots of fun with a skillful GM. Of course, an unsubtle one would make it a bash, crash and smash, but there's nothing much that could be done about that. Alan ps: yes, I am working on my Superboy #98 version of Ultra Boy as I type... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandi Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Matter-Eater Lad, like Cypher of the New Mutants, struck me as someone whose power is totally unglamourous as far as comic books go, but is still immensely useful. If I understand correctly, can't MEL eat even poisonous or radioactive material without injury to himself? Depending on how much material he could process, cleanup at nuclear plant accidents/chemical labs/etc. could be done with reasonable speed and less risk to others... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 well, another issue that's not dealt with is simple experience progression. For example, if you start with a 350 point group, and run once a month, averaging about 30xp per year, in 5 years that group will average 500 points, and in 10, 650. For a group meeting twice a week, averaging 50-60 xp per year, that group will average 600-650 points after 5 years, and 850-950 points after 10. For a weekly game group, averaging 100 xp per year(40 weekends at 2.5 xp each), the numbers are astronomical. 850 point PCs after 5 years, and 1350+ after 10. Most of the weaker characters are only weak for the 1st 150 xp or so. Most characters at 600+ points are no longer weak, and unless no one wants a successful campaign lasting longer than a few years, high powered characters are a fact of life which Hero gamers (and Hero Games) cannot afford to ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Originally posted by megaplayboy well, another issue that's not dealt with is simple experience progression. For example, if you start with a 350 point group, and run once a month, averaging about 30xp per year, in 5 years that group will average 500 points, and in 10, 650. This is true, and I actually have no problem with a book dealing with high powered games. Quite the opposite, in fact. I've just been being a pain on the question of how to build the LSH. On the other hand, I wonder how many games actually last for 5 or 10 years? That's a long time to keep a group together. It can happen, of course, even though I suspect it's rather rare. Actually, I would really like to play in a really high-powered game. A bit of cosmic bottom-kicking would be kind of cool. There is a certain appeal in being the biggest and baddest thing around - apart from the idjits the GM throws at you. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 I have a hankering to run an "Avenger League Z" game at a con shortly after GC is finally released:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Originally posted by assault In this situation, I would take: Cosmic Boy, Ultra Boy, and Invisible Kid (Lyle or Jacques, depending on the period, I don't care...). I'd take Starboy, Ferro, and Violet. (yes, I'd play a female, the LSH has some of the strongest written women in comics.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 Originally posted by Steve Long Galactic Champions ...Nor will it include extensive details on the various species of the setting, etc.; those are covered in TE, The Galactic Federation, and so on... Steve, Can you tell us more about The Galactic Fed book? Will there be species with superhuman stats / abilities to draw on for a Galactic Champions campaign or will super-beings of a different species be akin to human Supers in power level differences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 Originally posted by levi Steve, Can you tell us more about The Galactic Fed book? Will there be species with superhuman stats / abilities to draw on for a Galactic Champions campaign or will super-beings of a different species be akin to human Supers in power level differences? Well, it seems like the Malvans and Varanyi are both essentially superhuman. The Varanyi have some high-level psis among them, and there may be some Malvans near Firewing's level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 Originally posted by Tim the LSH has some of the strongest written women in comics.) True, although there are also a disproportionate amount of female characters with "passive" defensive powers, e.g. Phantom Girl, Shadow Lass, Shrinking Vi, Triplicate Girl, Dream Girl... Of course, many of these are written as rather strong characters. Even Dream Girl is a serious super-scientist and nasty hand-to-hand combatant. And Shrinking Violet rocks! I'm not going to think too hard about the period when Lightning Lad was dead and Lightning Lass was impersonating him... Anyway, more generally on this thread. I suspect one of the reasons we haven't made a whole lot of sense is that we are mixing two different ideas. First, there is the "zooming around the universe" campaign. Secondly, there is the high powered campaign. There is no necessary connection between the two. One does not imply the other. A high-powered game can be based on Earth, while a star spanning game can involve characters not much more formidable than normals. On the other hand, there are plenty of precedents for the two to be connected. In addition, higher powered characters are probably a bit more likely to get involved in interstellar conflicts than their lower powered siblings. Anyone can do it, but usually it's the Superman types that do it fairly regularly. Or the Fantastic Four types... but the FF are fairly tough in their own right. Of course, that doesn't help them when Galactus comes to town. Hmm, has anybody done up stats for Darkseid? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azimer the Mad Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 Originally posted by assault Hmm, has anybody done up stats for Darkseid? Alan Well, the Omega Effect is done as the "Nega Beam" in the Until Superpowers Database (and is built on more points than Bolivia). After that hurdle, it should be easy statwork. For Galactic Champions, I'm hoping it will be influenced by one of my favorite genre representations. I loved Post-Zero Hour Legion, but Grant Morrison's D.C. 1 Million had some amazing ideas in it for the 853rd Century Justice League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomGM2602 Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Books Depends on how you define "near." Darren's going to write most of GAC, but it's not currently on the schedule. 2005 at the earliest, barring unforeseen changes. We went through this in another thread recently -- no information will as yet be revealed, he said with a maniacal cackle. All I'll reveal is: a few villains will get "carried forward," but most of the GC villains will be new. I've set up a "Galactic Champions" Campaign that I called Champions Beyond but it fell by the wayside due to too little players and not much info for the future [in 4th ed],so i put it on Hiatus until i can get a copy of the GC sourcebook. I'd like to know: is the sourcebook compatible with 4th ed champions or is it for 5th ed only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupus Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Books Well' date=' it seems like the Malvans and Varanyi are both essentially superhuman. The Varanyi have some high-level psis among them, and there may be some Malvans near Firewing's level.[/quote'] Really? I got the impression that Firewing was an aberration. He was 350 points when he was in the arena, but found a way to power himself up... of course, I dunno if he's a Malvan or not. I've lent my books out, so I can't check just now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Books Yeah, most Malvans only have extremely long lifespan and mild psionic resistance, plus whatever they might give themselves via their tech. Of course, since they have ATRI 14 tech, any Malvan who actually wanted to could probably gain the equivalent of superpowers. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Books You could say Firewing is an "aberration" - he went through a legendary Malvan ritual to gain his powers, a profound and quite literal "trial by fire." He did have exceptional physical abilities and minor fire powers before then, though. The implication of the entries on Firewing and other Malvan gladiators in Conquerors, Killers and Crooks is that during the era of superhumans in the galaxy, Malvans can gain superpowers almost with the frequency of humans. A couple of other superhuman Malvan gladiators are mentioned: Frostbite, a mutant with ice powers, and Terala Shain, with exceptional strength and skill and "blindingly fast." The best of the Malvan gladiators are supposedly comparable to Standard Superheroes; Firewing is far more powerful than any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Books I've set up a "Galactic Champions" Campaign that I called Champions Beyond but it fell by the wayside due to too little players and not much info for the future [in 4th ed]' date='so i put it on Hiatus until i can get a copy of the GC sourcebook. I'd like to know: is the sourcebook compatible with 4th ed champions or is it for 5th ed only?[/quote'] It's compatible with 4th Ed. to the degree that all 5th products are, i.e. 80-90%, with most of the differences being fairly easy to figure out. If you'd like to know what the differences between the editions are, I'd recommend looking here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 Re: Galactic Champions Books You could say Firewing is an "aberration" - he went through a legendary Malvan ritual to gain his powers' date=' a profound and quite literal "trial by fire." He did have exceptional physical abilities and minor fire powers before then, though. The implication of the entries on Firewing and other Malvan gladiators in [i']Conquerors, Killers and Crooks[/i] is that during the era of superhumans in the galaxy, Malvans can gain superpowers almost with the frequency of humans. A couple of other superhuman Malvan gladiators are mentioned: Frostbite, a mutant with ice powers, and Terala Shain, with exceptional strength and skill and "blindingly fast." The best of the Malvan gladiators are supposedly comparable to Standard Superheroes; Firewing is far more powerful than any of them. True, Malvans do have superhumans. Its just they aren't any more inherent to their malvan nature than superhumans are to human nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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