Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

[OddHat]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

And the people who insist on making that point publicly are rounded up and imprisoned. Those who violently resist being imprisoned are executed.

 

The ugly side to even a benevolent dictatorship, is that it can't afford to tolerate dissent. And for purposes of running this scenario in a game, that feature can be played up to motivate PCs to action.

 

And even if there are more subtle means to handle dissent, the occupier and foreign lord is always resented, no matter how benevolent. Given a few generations, V'Han may be able to convince the people of Earth's nations to think of themselves as "citizens of the Empire", especially those who profit most from the new regime; for the first generation or two after the conquest, how many patriots will die to defend their countries sovereignty, and how many political leaders will struggle to cling to or regain power no matter the cost?

 

V'Han Occupied Earth would make a great Days of Future Past type scenario for Digital Hero.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

V'Han Occupied Earth would make a great Days of Future Past type scenario for Digital Hero.

 

I hope the DoJ crew are looking in on this thread. The debate and ideas here for any future Istvatha use are golden.

[WalkerMyHero]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Other worlds and races may be more advanced Techonlogically, Magically, or otherwise better, but Champions Earth is the rarest of all. Superhumans and other Beings from multipul Dimensions have come here to live, fight, and struggle for supremecy, but the sheer desity of Super Beings confounds her and her enemies see Champions Earth as their prize and oppose her as well.

 

 

There is a prophecy among he conquored peoples. That Champions Earth's Defenders will one day free them from Istvatha V'han's control. The Resistance warns Champions Earth of impending attacks and sabotages her assaults.

 

 

We are their last best hope for freedom.

[Kirby]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Yea! After only 2+ weeks, we have our internet connection!

 

(Moving sucketh at times.)

One might assume the following problems: limited actual resources to maintain order in her already over extended realm... potential dimensional rivals who may be pressing her and bleeding off her resources (maybe she has issues with Tyrannon' date=' much as the British had issues with Napolean when they should have easily been able to crush the American Colonies resistance)....[/quote']This aspect of your post is something I've considered in a previous debate on this topic a year or so back. If V'han (primarily) uses her own species to maintain the governments, this could be an issue. Although, I read the text as her dimensions are fairly stable in the maintaining order sense.

[Kirby]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

(Note: There's also neither a Dr. Destroyer' date=' a Menton, nor a Takofanes in the year 3000; make of that what you will...)[/quote']I think Takofanes and Menton would throw a huge wrench in her plans, now that you mention it, though Takofanes' entrance would be a concern for all (unless he's simply stealing corpses for later use).

 

A prepared Dr. Destroyer could be a threat; however, in my campaign, he was caught off-guard.

[Kirby]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Hmmm. Maybe I don't want to know' date=' but just how did the commander of GATEWAY fare in that battle?[/quote']Commander Rodney Currie, and the rest of GATEWAY will be listed as KIA.

[Hermit]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Commander Rodney Currie' date=' and the rest of GATEWAY will be listed as KIA.[/quote']

 

I'm almost sure he merely had an origin.

[Kirby]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

...anyone who uses the Empress deserves rep.

I'm using the Empress....

 

 

 

And when I'm finished, I'll put another notch on my bed.

 

[Kirby]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

With OddHat's spin on V'han' date=' it might be pretty amusing for her to send in "peace-keeping troops"...[/quote']An interesting change of tactics for her troops' write-up would be to give them all less than lethal weaponry. Stun guns, stun phasers, net guns, sonic weapons, flash attacks, etc. She wants to "conquer without killing" her enemies, err, targets.

 

There'd be major ramifications for this, but would explain a bit.

[Kirby]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Umm... I have a question...

 

If she can only bring ships through one at a time... why the heck did she come into orbit, then start bringing them through? For pity's sake... hang out somewhere far enough away (among the asteroids, perhaps?) where she's not likely to be easily detected, bring through a few hundred or a few thousand ships, and move them en masse to Earth!

By reading her write-up, it seems that as of the 21st century, she's incapable of doing this. I'm guessing that she doesn't have an abundance of dimensional ships, or like McCoy mentioned previously, there may not be many dimensional gates available.

 

If I were a dimensional conqueror, yes, I'd have 10,000 FTL+dimensional ships appear around Mars or the asteroid belt, form up and warp over to Earth in seconds for a blitzkrieg-style attack. However, if she can only bring one ship at a time, and say it takes 15 minutes per ship to come through, having 3,000 ships come through (45k minutes) would take 750 hours or 31 Earth days +6 hours just to form up. That's a big food supply. (Even if it were 10 minutes, that would be 500 hours or 20+days to execute the staging maneuver.)

 

Under Campaign Use, it states: "The best the PCs can hope for is to blunt the early stages of one of her invasions...." The way I'm using V'han in this attack is that she has one mothership that can do a dimensional travel. It carries four planetary assault ships (and a few troop shuttles for quick reinforcements) for an immediate attack. Once the four ships have disembarked from the mother ship's hangar, a dimensional rift inside the mother ship activates and approximately every 15 minutes another planetary assault ship comes through.

[Kirby]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Speaking entirely hypothetically, I would expect one or more of the folowing to apply:

 

2. Earth's dimensional defenses might be better. She can't commit as many troops as she would like because the Earth's mystic defenses are much higher than a normal planet's.

 

3. It's not just the number of supers but super mystics around Earth that is the problem. And don't forget that certain evil mystics might not like some interdimensional interloper to come by and try and conquor the Earth. Do you really want to tick off Takofanes?

I like these two. Perhaps she is the "technology dimensional conqueror" and terminates mystics in her own realms because they can be so unconventional (and non-scientific)?

[Highwayman]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

I like these two. Perhaps she is the "technology dimensional conqueror" and terminates mystics in her own realms because they can be so unconventional (and non-scientific)?

 

Nah, it's because mystics have a bad habit of dealing in extradimensional forces and gates. It's bad for dimensional security and infringes on V'han's job description. If you're caught, you get a choice between signing up with the offical Mystic Corps or exile to a magic-nullifying dimension.

[Kirby]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

As an update, V'han's initial assault force has been defeated by the PCs.

 

Her assault ships were coming through a dimensional portal inside a titan-sized mothership. The PCs attacked an assault ship which ended up being one that was attacking Dr. Destroyer's HQ in the Himilayas. The PCs parleyed with the aliens (after a brief scuffle) and agreed to work in tandem to defeat Destroyer. When the PCs were sent to Dr.D's HQ, it was only then they realized these aliens were V'han troops. Thinking Dr.D. had the upper hand (and really, who wouldn't want to assist in taking him down?), they continued. With a couple hundred D-soldiers, they took down D's agents, the PCs took out his Black Talons and one PC happened to have AoE lightning attacks which made short work of D's Destroids.

 

Alien supers (an Extermination Squad) ended up defeating Dr. D (I rolled the combat) and things seemed to be going smoothly; however, the PCs realized during the battle that the alien assault ship was jamming all communications. One of the PCs (unbeknownst to the others) flew up to the alien ship and started attacking what he thought were antennas, transmitters, jamming devices, etc. When the aliens discovered this, they felt betrayed and communicated with the Extermination Squad who KO'd the PCs pretty quickly (and said PCs felt betrayed by the Extermination Squad).

 

The PCs woke up in the alien brig along with the Zodiac. The two groups eventually were able to break out and made their way to the titan-sized mother ship's hangar. In it there were alien troops and four pyramids, each was an "anchor" and energy source providing a means for creating a dimensional rift allowing other alien assault ships to come through. The PCs and NPC allies destroyed 3 of the 4pyramids and escaped. V'han, not having a way to gain more ships, had to call for a withdraw.

 

Where they're withdrawing to is unknown....

[megaplayboy]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

My pet theory of dimensional conquest is that would-be conquerors need to first gain a "foothold" in the realm they are interested in, by setting down a dimensional marker of some sort(a fortress, castle, world, giant ship or whatnot), and then gradually expanding the reach of this marker until they are able to control the dimensional constants of the newly annexed realm(if you can't control the laws of the dimension you just occupied, you haven't really conquered it).

 

Naturally, there is competition in this regard, as well as other interested other-dimensional entities hostile to such intentions. On top of that, dimensions are naturally resistant to such attacks, and tend to find ways to generate "antibodies"(e.g., superheroes) to fight off invasion. It is difficult, because of this resistance, to move in immediately with overwhelming force. The foothold has to be established first, and in most campaigns this means that Earth(as a dimensional nexus and easy entry point) has to be conquered first, with the limited resources available.

 

Plus, Isthvatha V'Han's writeup in CKC just isn't very good.

[Arkham]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

1 billion dimensions, with weapons built by the lowest bidder...

That could be one very, very, very low bidder indeed.

 

With as many mystics as there are on and around earth, there could be many sorceries that activate upon the arrival of her forces, or force her gates to open in proximity to earth thus preventing her from having a safe staging area, or that innumerable other things that creative mystics could conjure.

[Fireball]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

It's obvious why she can't conquer Earth: she collapses from the ridiculousness of her concept and becomes a black hole sucking in everything about her.

 

Ok, sarcasm aside..

 

Earth, moreso than any other planet, has an usual concentration of superpowered beings consisting of innate abilities, users of high technology and other factors. As was written in the first M.E.T.E. book (and I have to try to say this from memory since I no longer have it):

 

'Earth has repeatedly and at times, savagely, defended it's sovereignty and autonomy from alien invasions so much so, that a general warning has been issued throughout the galaxy (universe?) that anyone attempting to invade is on their own.' (or something to that effect)

 

Why not have Earth's selective super-technology, which is in the hands of villains and heroes, be better than ol' Isty's armies?

 

I agree with Tech. The mere concept of Istvatha is ridiculous, even in the hero universe. Most real-life people cannot even conceive of just how large the universe is - in real life. Even scifi movies are smart enough to realize how impossible it would be to conquer qalaxies and galaxies, much less an entire dimension aka universe. It's so ludicrous as to be beyond even the suspension of belief. To take over millions of universes is plainly beyond common sense. Even having so-called gates throughout the universe would not suffice for even one dimenion subjegated. There is also something which is being assumed in almost all of these posts which is being neglected - universal law. The laws of physics may work fine for science, magic, mutant powers, etc in the universe of Earth, but may totally destroy any being in a new plane of existance. Our real-life minds - even given the existance of another dimension - simply cannot conceive of just how big our current universe is much less how different the laws of physics would be in another universe. This is applicable to the hero games. Even in the Star Trek universe, they were smart enough to break up the Milky Way Galaxy into quadrants because the Milky Way is too large for the Federation to explore, much less a universe and even less multiple universes.

 

Look, in a year there are about 30,000,000 seconds. If a conqueror devoted only 5 minutes to each universe (excluding every doing anything like eating, sleeping, taking a potty break, talking, or any independent thought), you could only cover 100,000 universes. And 5 minutes cannot run a so-called governing authority over a little league game, much less a country, or world, or solar system, or constellation, or galaxy, or universe. In a story even given the suspension of disbelief, there are rules the story must adhere to. A universe must have a given set of rules of physics. Even superhero physics in the hero games universe simply does not allow for this concept to even exist.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Well, that assumes the conqueror doesn't delegate, has no "special relationship with time and relative dimensions in space";), has no duplicates or mind linked proxies, etc. The version of Vhan we see, for example, may be a form of manifestation "made simple enough for our primitive minds to comprehend". anthropomorphic deities are similarly absurd, unless and until we conceptualize levels of action and perception well beyond our mundane imaginings.

[Susano]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

One could also argue she's been knocking over tiny pocket universes, and thus is stymied by the sheer size of ours.

[casualplayer]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

She doesn't have to conquer the whole universe, just the inhabited parts.

[Susano]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Great... I bet the first place she grabs is the place where I keep all my stuff.

[OddHat]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Comic books include dimension conquerers. So does science fiction. If you're going to simulate those stories, you go with the idea, just like you go with the other silly ideas built into the settings where the stories take place.

 

If you don't want to simulate those sources, that's your call; Steve Long will not come to your house and force you to use V'han in your campaigns.

 

Personally, I find the idea of anyone trying to conquer the world unbelievably silly. The Nazis were idiots, and the saner ones really didn't have much more than full control of Europe in mind. However, it's a fun kind of silly, and it's a kind of silly that real humans fall into, so I include World Conquest as a villain goal in my campaigns. And who knows, maybe that Orbital Mind Control Laser will work out after all.

[Susano]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Personally' date=' I find the idea of anyone trying to conquer the world unbelievably silly. The Nazis were idiots, and the saner ones really didn't have much more than full control of Europe in mind.[/quote']

 

And, in truth, the plan (at least on paper) included Japan controlling the Pacific, Italy North Africa, Russia Eastern Europe, and Germany Western Europe. The rest would be vassal states, or in the case of he US and Canada, non-aggressive nations. So, perhaps V'han doesn't "rule" a billion dimensions, she just has toeholds/colonies in many of them. So, she becomes a dimensional Queen Victoria, whose Empire circled the globe.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

I wouldn't necessarily say "toehold" is the right term. My impression was, yeah, she didn't physically occupy the entire universe.

 

She did, however, establish enough of a presence in the dimension that she effectively had hegemony. Once she has a sufficiently big beachhead, she can bring in enough forces easily enough that the Dimensional Empire is the biggest force by far in that universe, and so everyone has to do what she wants.

 

Given that what she wants isn't usually especially stringent or demanding, for the most part everyone goes along with it. Especially since it includes protection against extradimensional invaders far more unpleasant than her.

 

In practice, though, her control is *probably* limited to galaxy scale within the universes she rules, except for those with preestablished transgalactic societies.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

Now that's an interesting proposition, that she doesn't necessarily govern every dimension in her empire, but allows them a large measure of self-rule so long as they adhere to her overall policies, under threat of more direct intervention if they don't toe the line. There have certainly been quite a few empires in the history of the world with similar arrangements with their "subject" territories, and that would make her whole dominion more administratively manageable.

[Susano]

Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

 

And you get the great scene of the dimensional governors coming in once every few years to pay tribute (in all sorts of goods).