What rule don't people know?

[CorPse]

Is there a rule or system feature that, in your experience, people seem the most ill-informed about?

 

I've played in a fair number of convention games, and while I avoid challenging a GM or another player about a rule, there are times when I think, "Man, that just ain't in the book."

 

As an example, I recently played in a game where the GM had gotten the idea that a character had to lock in a multipower slot on his Dex whenever he had an active phase. (It might not sound like much, but it can seriously hose you up if you're trying to delay.)

 

And there are certainly rules that I discover that I've been wrong about. For example, last year I tumbled to the fact that penalties that halve your DCV aren't cumulative. (ie if you're stunned and prone you're just at 1/2 DCV)

 

So, anyway, is there anything you find yourself explaining to other people every time you turn around?

 

Just curious

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Well, if you count rules that people handle "wrongly" because rules have changed from edition to edition, and they still use an old version of the rule, then I'd say the one I see most frequently is assigning a -1 OCV to an attacker if they made a Half-Move before attacking. That hasn't been an official rule in almost 20 years, but there are still a lot of people who use it, with many (most?) of those seemingly unaware that the official rule changed...

[JmOz]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

the other GM in my group does not accept that a foci can be universal without the independent limitation on it

[Thia Halmades]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

My friend Chris still occasionally likes to insist that your normal PD/ED doesn't reduce the STUN you take from a Killing Attack, because of the 4th Ed rule that, in fact, it didn't. Now, if you have ANY resistant DEF, your natural PD & ED will apply to reduce the STUN you take.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

the other GM in my group does not accept that a foci can be universal without the independent limitation on it

 

I find this funny because I almost made this error. Thank G-d for HERO Designer.

[Trebuchet]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

That the extra Knockback inches you get from Shrinking increases the KB damage.

[CorPse]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Well' date=' if you count rules that people handle "wrongly" because rules have changed from edition to edition, and they still use an old version of the rule, then I'd say the one I see most frequently is assigning a -1 OCV to an attacker if they made a Half-Move before attacking. That hasn't been an official rule in almost 20 years, but there are still a lot of people who use it, with many (most?) of those seemingly unaware that the official rule changed...[/quote']

 

Good one. I've been playing since '83, or was it '84?, and I don't remember that one at all. Has a logic to it, though.

 

For some reason this reminds me of the Haymaker makeover between, 4th & 5th ed....

[archermoo]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

My friend Chris still occasionally likes to insist that your normal PD/ED doesn't reduce the STUN you take from a Killing Attack' date=' because of the 4th Ed rule that, in fact, it didn't. Now, if you have ANY resistant DEF, your natural PD & ED will apply to reduce the STUN you take.[/quote']

 

Um, it was that way in 4th edition to. As well as all previous editions. Well, you have to have resistant DEF of the appropriate type. I.e. resistant PD to use your PD and Resistant ED to use your ED. But that is the way it has always been.

[caris]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

I'm the only one that I ever game with that converts skill levels into extra damage.

[archermoo]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Well' date=' if you count rules that people handle "wrongly" because rules have changed from edition to edition, and they still use an old version of the rule, then I'd say the one I see most frequently is assigning a -1 OCV to an attacker if they made a Half-Move before attacking. That hasn't been an official rule in almost 20 years, but there are still a lot of people who use it, with many (most?) of those seemingly unaware that the official rule changed...[/quote']

 

I'm one of those that realizes that it was phased out, but still uses it anyway.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

My friend Chris still occasionally likes to insist that your normal PD/ED doesn't reduce the STUN you take from a Killing Attack' date=' because of the 4th Ed rule that, in fact, it didn't. Now, if you have ANY resistant DEF, your natural PD & ED will apply to reduce the STUN you take.[/quote']Err... your friend Chris was wrong even in 4th Edition. That rule wasn't changed from 4th to 5th... even in 4th, your total PD/ED counted against the STUN of Killing Attack damage, as long as you had any Resistant PD or ED. (4th Edition HERO System Rulesbook, page 160)

[CorPse]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

I'm the only one that I ever game with that converts skill levels into extra damage.

 

Yeah... I think a lot of people are unaware of the adding damage rules... some of them are a little fuzzy to me. I have to remind myself, even with the rule you mention, about what you get on a Killing Attack vs. a Normal Attack, etc.

[CorPse]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Good one. I've been playing since '83, or was it '84?, and I don't remember that one at all. Has a logic to it, though.

 

For some reason this reminds me of the Haymaker makeover between, 4th & 5th ed....

 

Speaking of Haymakers, even if I do quote myself, I end up having the "You Can Haymaker, THAT?" conversation with someone about every three months.

[archermoo]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Yeah... I think a lot of people are unaware of the adding damage rules... some of them are a little fuzzy to me. I have to remind myself' date=' even with the rule you mention, about what you get on a Killing Attack vs. a Normal Attack, etc.[/quote']

 

And in the current rules what the skill levels do depends on what level you are playing. Heroic gets one set of rules, Superheroic gets a different set.

[BNakagawa]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

based on a game at ConQuest - stun multiple (from hit location) is applied before defenses, not after.

[archermoo]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

based on a game at ConQuest - stun multiple (from hit location) is applied before defenses' date=' not after.[/quote']

 

And for that matter the compliment seems lost on many as well: That the NStun mulitplier and Body multipliers for hit locations are for what gets through defenses.

[CorPse]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

based on a game at ConQuest - stun multiple (from hit location) is applied before defenses' date=' not after.[/quote']

 

Hmmm... isn't it different depending on whether it's killing or normal damage? I'll admit to fuzzing out on this one. (I don't usually play in games that use hit locations.)

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Well, for my group, the fact that you can Haymaker anything is the big one.

 

I can get this out of the new HERO guy; we haven't played a lot of 5E stuff, on the whole, so I guess I can see it, even though I've done it in probably 2 out of every 3 games with Energy Blast.

 

(Actually, I think I'm the only person who ever uses any of the optional combat actions.)

[Checkmate]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Along the skill level lines, a lot of people forget that a 3 point skill level can apply to 3 skills too. For example instead if a character had a 20 DEX, instead of:

Cost Skill

5 Acrobatics 14-

5 Stealth 14-

5 Breakfall 14-

15 Total

 

They could go:

Cost Skill

3 +1 w/Acrobatics, Stealth, and Breakfall

3 Acrobatics 13-

3 Stealth 13-

3 Breakfall 13-

12 Total

 

Now obviously the second way isn't quite as effective as the first, but can be a real point saver especially if you wanted +2 or more with each of those skills, (and NCM was a factor or the skills used different base stats).

[BNakagawa]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Hmmm... isn't it different depending on whether it's killing or normal damage? I'll admit to fuzzing out on this one. (I don't usually play in games that use hit locations.)

 

The phrase stun multiple is typically used only for the stun portion of killing attack damage.

 

There is a multiple used for normal damage, but it uses the description N STUN to distinguish itself from STUNx, or stun multiple.

[archermoo]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Hmmm... isn't it different depending on whether it's killing or normal damage? I'll admit to fuzzing out on this one. (I don't usually play in games that use hit locations.)

 

That is the part that confuses most people. The Stun Multiple for Killing Attacks is how you find out how much Stun the attack does. So it has to be done before defenses, as until you figure it out you don't have anything to apply to defenses. The NStunX and BodyX are both modifiers to existing damage, and they get applied after defenses.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

That is the part that confuses most people. The Stun Multiple for Killing Attacks is how you find out how much Stun the attack does. So it has to be done before defenses' date=' as until you figure it out you don't have anything to apply to defenses. The NStunX and BodyX are both modifiers to existing damage, and they get applied after defenses.[/quote']

 

IIRC, one of those last two was before defenses in 4th edition, and the other was after ... I could never recall which.

[archermoo]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

IIRC' date=' one of those last two was before defenses in 4th edition, and the other was after ... I could never recall which.[/quote']

 

Well, the Stun multiple for Killing Attacks has always been before defenses. It can't be after defenses, since it is how you figure out how much Stun the attack does.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

And in the current rules what the skill levels do depends on what level you are playing. Heroic gets one set of rules' date=' Superheroic gets a different set. [/quote']

 

Yeah, that is one I tend to gloss over. We just do the 2 levels for +1 DC for everything.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Well' date=' if you count rules that people handle "wrongly" because rules have changed from edition to edition,.[/quote']

 

Yeah. I still think they hosed Mulitpowers from 1st to 2nd.

 

I kid I kid.

 

My wife and another player in our group has been playing since first, and they occasionally have transeditional problems like that.