What rule don't people know?

[schir1964]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

This sometimes slips under the radar, especially for those who only have the 5th Edition not Revised.

 

Find Weakness: When purchased you must select the type of defense you may find weakness in (Normal, Resistant, etc...).

 

- Christopher Mullins

[schir1964]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

This was the rule in third and prior. As far as I know it was the rule in 4th as well. If I had my 4th edition book handy I'd quote a page number.

Ditto.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[BNakagawa]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

That you can sweep and haymaker any attack - even ranged attacks, somehow.

 

That you can make as many attacks as you have attack powers.

 

You can sweep or haymaker. not both.

 

You cannot sweep with a ranged attack (although you could rapid fire a ranged attack)

 

You cannot sweep a haymaker-ed attack.

 

You can make as many attacks as you have attack powers, unless they use different attack rolls (CV vs ECV) or are ranged vs HtH, provided they are not ultra slots in a multipower, or both in the same Elemental Control.

 

Provided, of course, that your GM allows it, as all of the above, except for haymaker, are optional rules.

[JmOz]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

This sometimes slips under the radar, especially for those who only have the 5th Edition not Revised.

 

Find Weakness: When purchased you must select the type of defense you may find weakness in (Normal, Resistant, etc...).

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

Ohh I know that rule, I intentionaly ignore it...

[JmOz]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

You can sweep or haymaker. not both.

 

You cannot sweep with a ranged attack (although you could rapid fire a ranged attack)

 

You cannot sweep a haymaker-ed attack.

 

You can make as many attacks as you have attack powers, unless they use different attack rolls (CV vs ECV) or are ranged vs HtH, provided they are not ultra slots in a multipower, or both in the same Elemental Control.

 

Provided, of course, that your GM allows it, as all of the above, except for haymaker, are optional rules.

 

 

Umm double checking, If I have a 60 point MP with 2 ultra powers with 30 active points each (2d6 RKA, 6d6 EB), can they be combined in a MPA

[schir1964]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Umm double checking' date=' If I have a 60 point MP with 2 ultra powers with 30 active points each (2d6 RKA, 6d6 EB), can they be combined in a MPA[/quote']

Multipower Slots may not be used together in a Multiple Power Attack via the official rules.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Umm double checking' date=' If I have a 60 point MP with 2 ultra powers with 30 active points each (2d6 RKA, 6d6 EB), can they be combined in a MPA[/quote']

 

Multipower Slots may not be used together in a Multiple Power Attack via the official rules.

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

This was, in my opinion, a CHANGE from 5e to 5er. 5e prohibits slots in an EC being used together in a MPA. 5er prohibits multiple slots in any framework being used together in an MPA.

 

Technically, shouldn't this rule also preclude a VPP being used to create a combined power with two attacks linked together, since those linked attacks are technically two powers in a VPP? Presumably, the argument is that they are a single VPP slot.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

You are correct -being knocked out wipes that pesky stunned effect away.

 

That has been one I've missed completely. I found that in 5ER. Nifty.

[CTaylor]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

You can sweep or haymaker. not both.

 

correct, I wrote that poorly; you can sweep any attack and haymaker any attack, they are like exclusive maneuver addons - the way I wrote it it sounded like you can do both.

 

You are correct -being knocked out wipes that pesky stunned effect away.

 

Hmm, can't find anywhere in the rules that specifies this but its probably there: its a house rule for me then

 

Related: a stun drain or suppress can stun you if it exceeds your CON in one roll.

 

Another oddity: Suppress with continuous bought on it builds up each phase, suppressing more each time (at least it did in the first printing of the big black book)

[archermoo]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Hmm, can't find anywhere in the rules that specifies this but its probably there: its a house rule for me then

 

 

p412 of 5ER, first paragraph.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Hmm, can't find anywhere in the rules that specifies this but its probably there: its a house rule for me then

 

Page 412 of 5th Revised:

A character who's both Stunned and Knocked Out by the same attack begins taking Recoveries in his next full Phase; he does _not_ have to spend a Phase recovering from being Stunned (that's part of waking up from being knocked out).

 

 

Edit - beaten to the punch. Would have been first, but I decided to type it in, rather than just a reference.

[archermoo]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Another oddity: Suppress with continuous bought on it builds up each phase, suppressing more each time (at least it did in the first printing of the big black book)

 

True, but paying END each Phase for those continually adding Supresses can get expensive. Unless of course you buy it down to 0. I don't think I'd allow a Continuous Supress that had been bought down to 0 END personally.

[CTaylor]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Thanks, guys! I'm still gonna stick with the stunned and KO'd rule: represents a really colossal hit that takes longer to wake up from.

[SteveZilla]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

That people cannot put their CSL with "X" on DCV when doing "Y".

[SteveZilla]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

That is one I tend to forget about too, but for other reasons.

 

Aside from Meeb, every one of my characters has a martial arts package, and all of them have a +4d6 maneuver, so I just never think of haymakering.

 

I'll have to have Meeb Haymaker someone now. Woo - STR + HA + Stretching damage + Haymaker. Ugly.

 

Just to be clear, not everything can be Haymakered -- like Martial Maneuvers. You cannot do a "Haymakered Offensive Strike". Not that you made that suggestion, LM.

 

Don't forget to add Growth Momentum for Un-Shrinking to the mix!

 

STR + HA + Stretching + Growth Momentum + Haymaker! However, the rules preclude adding damage in this way if the powers are in the same framework, IIRC.

[ghost-angel]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Thanks' date=' guys! I'm still gonna stick with the stunned and KO'd rule: represents a really colossal hit that takes longer to wake up from.[/quote']

 

I'm sorry -but WHY?!

 

When you're knocked out your END and STUN drop to 0. You take x2 STUN from any attack. And if you're below -10 STUN you can be killed by ANYONE as a Full Phase Action.

And I have to spend an Extra Phase removing a situation that dramatically DOESN'T APPLY.

 

Stunned means your dazed for a second (Phase) but has no effects beyond that.

Knocked Out trumps it because you're UNCONSCIOUS. You can't be dazed and unconscious. That's ludicrous. (or rather, as the book says, down to -10 STUN means you're "really deeply Stunned")

 

By The Way - Fifth Edition (not Revised) p274 SAYS EXACTLY THE SAME THING. Bottom of the page. (as are every rules I stated in this post. no changes to 5ER)

 

You have the rule flat out dead wrong.

[archermoo]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

I'm sorry -but WHY?!

 

When you're knocked out your END and STUN drop to 0. You take x2 STUN from any attack. And if you're below -10 STUN you can be killed by ANYONE as a Full Phase Action.

And I have to spend an Extra Phase removing a situation that dramatically DOESN'T APPLY.

 

Stunned means your dazed for a second (Phase) but has no effects beyond that.

Knocked Out trumps it because you're UNCONSCIOUS. You can't be dazed and unconscious. That's ludicrous. (or rather, as the book says, down to -10 STUN means you're "really deeply Stunned")

 

By The Way - Fifth Edition (not Revised) p274 SAYS EXACTLY THE SAME THING. Bottom of the page. (as are every rules I stated in this post. no changes to 5ER)

 

You have the rule flat out dead wrong.

 

I don't think it is so much dead wrong as he's just decided to use a house rule. And as a note, he is house ruling it back to a previous version of the rules. I couldn't say which version of the rules changed it, but I'm pretty sure you used to have to recover from being Stunned before you could recover. I can't wait to find my old Hero stuff...

[CTaylor]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

As I said, to represent a really horrible attack that both knocked you out and stunned you, and thus takes longer to recover from. You'd recover from being stunned the next phase regardless of how low you were knocked out. Just a house rule, feel free to not use it if you don't want to. Helps keep the bad guys down longer too.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

My wife and another player in our group has been playing since first' date=' and they occasionally have transeditional problems like that.[/quote']

That's it... for my next character, I'm buying Transeditional as an Advantage on all the powers, so they can be used under the rules of whichever edition I like the best for that particular power...

 

[ghost-angel]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

I don't think it is so much dead wrong as he's just decided to use a house rule. And as a note' date=' he is house ruling it back to a previous version of the rules. I couldn't say which version of the rules changed it, but I'm pretty sure you used to have to recover from being Stunned before you could recover. I can't wait to find my old Hero stuff... [/quote']

 

As I said' date=' to represent a really horrible attack that both knocked you out and stunned you, and thus takes longer to recover from. You'd recover from being stunned the next phase regardless of how low you were knocked out. Just a house rule, feel free to not use it if you don't want to. Helps keep the bad guys down longer too.[/quote']

 

I just find it to make absolutely no logical sense in any manner.

 

It's the kind of house rule that has caused me to leave gaming groups completely really.

 

Stunned is the condition of being conscious but barely aware and unable to properly react to outside stimulus.

Knocked Out is being not awake. How can you be Stunned (in any sense of the word) while Unconscious? I can't even buy your dramatic explanation of a "really hard hit" - that's covered under Negative STUN quite nicely.

[casualplayer]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

I just find it to make absolutely no logical sense in any manner.

 

It's the kind of house rule that has caused me to leave gaming groups completely really.

 

Stunned is the condition of being conscious but barely aware and unable to properly react to outside stimulus.

Knocked Out is being not awake. How can you be Stunned (in any sense of the word) while Unconscious? I can't even buy your dramatic explanation of a "really hard hit" - that's covered under Negative STUN quite nicely.

 

I would continue with the Must Always Spend a Phase to become Unstunned before Taking Any Appropriate Recoveries for three reasons:

 

1) The modern rule benefits players minimally;

2) The brunt of preFred players don't know the rule was changed;

3) One less exclusionary rule to remember.

 

I knew the rule was changed, I understand the reasoning behind it and I still think it was an unnecessary "fix."

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

I would continue with the Must Always Spend a Phase to become Unstunned before Taking Any Appropriate Recoveries for three reasons:

 

1) The modern rule benefits players minimally;

2) The brunt of preFred players don't know the rule was changed;

3) One less exclusionary rule to remember.

 

I knew the rule was changed, I understand the reasoning behind it and I still think it was an unnecessary "fix."

 

I have to agree with Ghost Angel on this one. I just re-read the rule from 3rd edition Champions and 5er. The 3rd edition emphasis on the condition of being both Stunned and Knocked Out in the same Phase is redundant and unnecessary. Being Knocked Out trumps being Stunned.

 

Example:

Say you have SPD 4 DEX 18 character who is Stunned on Phase 3 at DEX 23.

 

According to 5er the character can apply his Phase 3 action* at DEX 18 towards recovering from being Stunned. He does not lose his Phase 6 action as well.

 

*(Unless he had aborted it for a Dodge or other defensive action).

 

If the same character had instead taken enough damage to be Knocked Out he cannot take a Recovery on his Phase 3. He instead must wait until his next full Phase on Phase 6 before taking a Recovery and applying his REC to his negative STUN and END scores.

 

The 3rd edition rule states that in the case of being both Stunned and Knocked Out the character spends his next phase recovering from being Stunned.

 

Guess which phase that would be?

 

Phase 3.

 

Fine. The character character recovers from being Stunned on Phase 3 but is still Knocked Out and doesn't get to take a Recovery until Phase 6.

 

The rule for being Knocked Out trumps the one for being Stunned. There is no need to worry about being Stunned when also Knocked out. Being Knocked Out is ALWAYS worse.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Just to be clear, not everything can be Haymakered -- like Martial Maneuvers. You cannot do a "Haymakered Offensive Strike". Not that you made that suggestion, LM.

 

 

Yeah, that is why I forget it, I have so many characters with martial arts packages with +4d6 manuevers, I tend to forget the everyman one.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

I can't wait to find my old Hero stuff...

 

 

I like having my 1st -5th ed rulesbooks all lined up in a row on my shelves.

When this came up orignially, I looked it in 4th -almost the same text verbatim, with the change of "if you are knocked out and stunned in the same attack, you have to recover from being stunned before taking any recoveries"

 

Steve pretty much reversed it.

[CTaylor]

Re: What rule don't people know?

 

I just find it to make absolutely no logical sense in any manner.

 

That's fine, don't use it in your game. I just like it and it makes sense to me.

 

You just have to remember: Hero is primarily a game of special effects, so being stunned can represent a lot of things. You can buy an ego attack that only stuns targets, defining it as a mental fugue, or a "brain reboot" that forces you to stop a moment. You can buy it as temporary paralysis etc. Stun doesn't have to mean what you define it as.

 

In my game, the house rule (and the old hero rules) represent it in this instance as such a catastrophic hit it takes you just a little bit longer to wake up.