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What rule don't people know?


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Re: What rule don't people know?

 

That's fine, don't use it in your game. I just like it and it makes sense to me.

 

You just have to remember: Hero is primarily a game of special effects, so being stunned can represent a lot of things. You can buy an ego attack that only stuns targets, defining it as a mental fugue, or a "brain reboot"...

 

Hope you don't get a BSoD when that happens! :D

 

...that forces you to stop a moment. You can buy it as temporary paralysis etc. Stun doesn't have to mean what you define it as.

 

In my game, the house rule (and the old hero rules) represent it in this instance as such a catastrophic hit it takes you just a little bit longer to wake up.

 

I remember (not so fondly) the old mantra "First I recover from being Stunned, then I Recover." I'd figure that being unconscious would be more than enough of a "brain reboot" to remove Stunnned (which is IMO a state of consciousness).

 

But it's your game and your house rule. :) Tends to make high CON and high defenses a little more usefull, and being attacked while unaware and outside of combat a little more severe.

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Re: What rule don't people know?

 

That's fine, don't use it in your game. I just like it and it makes sense to me.

 

You just have to remember: Hero is primarily a game of special effects, so being stunned can represent a lot of things. You can buy an ego attack that only stuns targets, defining it as a mental fugue, or a "brain reboot" that forces you to stop a moment. You can buy it as temporary paralysis etc. Stun doesn't have to mean what you define it as.

 

In my game, the house rule (and the old hero rules) represent it in this instance as such a catastrophic hit it takes you just a little bit longer to wake up.

 

So if I apply your house rule on this to my second example above does the character get to act on Phase 9 or 12?

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Re: What rule don't people know?

 

While I don't use the house rule, I think it makes perfect sense. We all agree you can't recover when you're taking damage right? Well the CON stun can represent the minor concussion that boxers get when they get K.O.'d*. You have to recover from that minor concussion before the real healing can begin.

 

 

*Despite what is shown in the movies, most boxers aren't at what we would consider 0 STUN (or less)when they are declared knocked out.

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Re: What rule don't people know?

 

While I don't use the house rule, I think it makes perfect sense. We all agree you can't recover when you're taking damage right? Well the CON stun can represent the minor concussion that boxers get when they get K.O.'d*. You have to recover from that minor concussion before the real healing can begin.

 

 

*Despite what is shown in the movies, most boxers aren't at what we would consider 0 STUN (or less)when they are declared knocked out.

 

Considering under Knocked Out it says you have some awareness down to -10 STUN, I would say they actually are Knocked Out when they are knocked out.

 

But that's me.

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Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Considering under Knocked Out it says you have some awareness down to -10 STUN, I would say they actually are Knocked Out when they are knocked out.

 

But that's me.

Actually, it is just you. Boxers get ruled K.O.'d by, what would be to us, a perfect representation of a CON stun. They get hit, are dazed for a few seconds it takes the ref to look at them (if a speed 3 gets CON Stunned on phase 12, he doesn't recover until phase 4, exactly a few seconds) and it's ruled a K.O. even if they never touch the canvas with anything but their feet.

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Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Actually' date=' it is just you. Boxers get ruled K.O.'d by, what would be to us, a perfect representation of a CON stun. They get hit, are dazed for a few seconds it takes the ref to look at them (if a speed 3 gets CON Stunned on phase 12, he doesn't recover until phase 4, exactly a few seconds) and it's ruled a K.O. even if they never touch the canvas with anything but their feet.[/quote']

 

Ah, goes to show my ignorance of boxing. I thought they had to drop to the canvas to be K.O.'d

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Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Actually' date=' it is just you. Boxers get ruled K.O.'d by, what would be to us, a perfect representation of a CON stun. They get hit, are dazed for a few seconds it takes the ref to look at them (if a speed 3 gets CON Stunned on phase 12, he doesn't recover until phase 4, exactly a few seconds) and it's ruled a K.O. even if they never touch the canvas with anything but their feet.[/quote']

 

I thought they had a 10 (second) count to resume a fighting stance. Being Stunned but Not Knocked Out (STUN > 0) would only deprive the boxer of one Phase. So it seems to me that only if the boxer were a SPD 1 would being Stunned but Not Knocked Out make the referee call a TKO.

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Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Sorry' date=' I'm having difficulty parsing that...[/quote']

 

OK, let me restate

 

The rule for Combat Skill levels state tgat at the 3 point level or above you may apply the bonus to either OCV, DCV or damage

 

There is an optional rule for Combat Skill Levels that says that you distinguish between HtH and Ranged combat, with ranged combat you can not apply the bonus to DCV (Unless it is a 8 point or 10 point CSL, or a dedicated 5 point DCV)

 

In my experience the vast majority of players think the optional rule is the base rule with being able to use it to adjust your DCV vs range a house rule

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Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Actually' date=' it is just you. Boxers get ruled K.O.'d by, what would be to us, a perfect representation of a CON stun. They get hit, are dazed for a few seconds it takes the ref to look at them (if a speed 3 gets CON Stunned on phase 12, he doesn't recover until phase 4, exactly a few seconds) and it's ruled a K.O. even if they never touch the canvas with anything but their feet.[/quote']

 

Let's assume 2 SPD 2 Boxers. We'll give Boxer #1 the advantage of reserving his phase. He slugs Boxer #2, stunning him on Ph 7. The count starts on ph 7:

 

Count [Phase]

 

1[7] 2[8] 3[9] 4[10] 5[11] 6[12 - recover from being Stunned] 7[1] 8[2] 9[3] 10[4] YOU'RE OUT

 

So a Stun on a 2 SPD character could most certainly be a boxing TKO, with the right reserved phases. Now, this would never work on a SPD 3 boxer, but maybe:

 

(a) a SPD 3 boxer is very exceptional, with a significant advantage (ie to make it in the pro's, you might need a 3 SPD)

 

(B) boxers buy extra SPD, only for attacks

 

© the system will never be a perfect simulation of real life because there are a lot more variables in real life than any system can reasonably account for.

 

(d) all of the above.

 

I vote (d)

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Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Actually' date=' it is just you. Boxers get ruled K.O.'d by, what would be to us, a perfect representation of a CON stun. They get hit, are dazed for a few seconds it takes the ref to look at them (if a speed 3 gets CON Stunned on phase 12, he doesn't recover until phase 4, exactly a few seconds) and it's ruled a K.O. even if they never touch the canvas with anything but their feet.[/quote']

 

Which reminds me of something that is at least similar to the whole "what rule don't people know":

 

The idea that CON Stunned means something. Being Stunned means something very specific in the game, i.e. that you have taken more Stun damage past your defenses in a single attack than your CON stat. Tacking CON on the front isn't even redundant, it just doesn't mean anything. And worse, it can be confusing to new players.

 

"Crap, I'm Con Stunned."

 

"Huh? Is that different than just being Stunned?"

 

I've seen that conversation (or variations on it) at several con games, and I don't generally even play at cons.

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Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Let's assume 2 SPD 2 Boxers. We'll give Boxer #1 the advantage of reserving his phase. He slugs Boxer #2, stunning him on Ph 7. The count starts on ph 7:

 

Count [Phase]

 

1[7] 2[8] 3[9] 4[10] 5[11] 6[12 - recover from being Stunned] 7[1] 8[2] 9[3] 10[4] YOU'RE OUT

 

So a Stun on a 2 SPD character could most certainly be a boxing TKO, with the right reserved phases. Now, this would never work on a SPD 3 boxer, but maybe:

 

(a) a SPD 3 boxer is very exceptional, with a significant advantage (ie to make it in the pro's, you might need a 3 SPD)

 

(B) boxers buy extra SPD, only for attacks

 

© the system will never be a perfect simulation of real life because there are a lot more variables in real life than any system can reasonably account for.

 

(d) all of the above.

 

I vote (d)

 

Except that I don't think you need to actually have a phase to be considered ready to go by a ref. I'm pretty sure you just need to be able to convince them that you can defend yourself. So in game terms, once you've got your DCV back (at their DEX in their next Phase) they should be good to go. So unless they're SPD 1, just being Stunned shouldn't get them TKO'ed.

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Re: What rule don't people know?

 

Yay, I knew getting punched in the face for sport would come in handy some day.

 

A KO would be if you hit the mat and didn't get up before the 10-count. In HERO terms, unable to Recover to greater than -10 STUN before the ref finished counting. Having to retreat to neutral corners means the dazed fighter might get another REC in there before the other fighter can close again.

 

A TKO is where the pug is at 0 to -10, still on his feet and moderately aware but unable to Recover to get to positive STUN before the ref finishes counting. In HERO terms, Stunning probably occured delaying the REC needed to get the punching bag stable again. Also the Impairing/Disabling Rules can help as REC gets reduced to so little during the fight that the fighter can't catch his breath in time.

 

Boxers are not quick thinkers. If they started out that way, they aren't after a few shots to the head. They would actually be suboptimal builds and definitely not students of the Goodman School. A smidge of STR, a lot of CON, PD, and then a lot of training to increase REC, maybe some Lightning Reflexes. Maybe the feather and bantamweight elite have a 3 SPD; Sugar Ray, De la Hoya, some others but it is unlikely and the training really doesn't promote it. Maybe some conditional REC Only SPD for the best of the best.

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Re: What rule don't people know?

 

So if I apply your house rule on this to my second example above does the character get to act on Phase 9 or 12?

 

He recovers from being stunned automatically his next phase, on his dex (which in your example would be 3). Then he begins to recover his stun on the next phase (which in your example would be 6). As soon as he's conscious, he's able to act, which would be phase 9 in your example. If he's smart he plays dead and recovers on 9, 12, and post 12.

 

Anyone remember the Mike Tyson/Buster Douglas fight? There was a point at which Mike was knocked down, his mouthguard out on the mat. He was groggily moving his arms around trying to find his mouthguard but out of the fight. That's what I think of when I think of being at just under 0 STN: you're sort of aware of your surroundings, but you're down and not getting up til you recover.

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Re: What rule don't people know?

 

He recovers from being stunned automatically his next phase, on his dex (which in your example would be 3). Then he begins to recover his stun on the next phase (which in your example would be 6). As soon as he's conscious, he's able to act, which would be phase 9 in your example. If he's smart he plays dead and recovers on 9, 12, and post 12.

 

Anyone remember the Mike Tyson/Buster Douglas fight? There was a point at which Mike was knocked down, his mouthguard out on the mat. He was groggily moving his arms around trying to find his mouthguard but out of the fight. That's what I think of when I think of being at just under 0 STN: you're sort of aware of your surroundings, but you're down and not getting up til you recover.

 

Of course you don't necessarily even go down until you drop below -10 Stun. At that level you could still be staggering around, only partially aware of your surroundings.

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Re: What rule don't people know?

 

He recovers from being stunned automatically his next phase' date=' on his dex (which in your example would be 3). Then he begins to recover his stun on the next phase (which in your example would be 6). As soon as he's conscious, he's able to act, which would be phase 9 in your example. ...[/quote']

 

What happens if the DEX order is switched?

 

That is, the attack is delivered at DEX 18 and the Character acted already on DEX 23?

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Re: What rule don't people know?

 

What happens if the DEX order is switched?

 

That is, the attack is delivered at DEX 18 and the Character acted already on DEX 23?

 

From what he has previously said, my guess is that the character would spend 6 recovering from being Stunned, and then get their first recovery on 9. Which wouldn't change if the DEX 23 character hadn't acted on his DEX, unless he is house ruling that as well. Normally you cannot use a held action to recover from being Stunned. You just lose the action.

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Re: What rule don't people know?

 

From what he has previously said' date=' my guess is that the character would spend 6 recovering from being Stunned, and then get their first recovery on 9. Which wouldn't change if the DEX 23 character hadn't acted on his DEX, unless he is house ruling that as well. Normally you cannot use a held action to recover from being Stunned. You just lose the action.[/quote']

 

Is it considered a Held Action to delay on your DEX opportunity to act? Even if you act later the same phase? If so, I didn't know that rule.

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Re: What rule don't people know?

 

From what he has previously said' date=' my guess is that the character would spend 6 recovering from being Stunned, and then get their first recovery on 9. Which wouldn't change if the DEX 23 character hadn't acted on his DEX, unless he is house ruling that as well. Normally you cannot use a held action to recover from being Stunned. You just lose the action.[/quote']

 

That is correct. There's no change to the rules other than requiring you to recover from being stunned and KO'd if they both happen at the same time. There's no change to recovering from being stunned.

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Re: What rule don't people know?

 

That is correct. There's no change to the rules other than requiring you to recover from being stunned and KO'd if they both happen at the same time. There's no change to recovering from being stunned.

 

So basically a higher DEX character gets screwed when compared to a lower DEX character if he is both Stunned and Knocked Out in the same Phase. That makes no sense whatsoever.

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