Would you model hardened buttons?

[BoneDaddy]

I'm working on a hero who is, in his hero ID, a gremlin. He's innately destructive of technology, and has as a permanent side effect a very small damage shield (1pip RKA, penetrating, only effects manufactured/ artificial substances (plastics and metals, petroleum products, synthetic fibers, etc.), extra time - one minute) which makes his life complicated. He eats with chopsticks and carries a flint knife, wears natural fibers (cotton, wool, or silk) and leather, writes witha quill pen, and he's to be wary about what he touches. Sitting on a park bench for five minutes would likely destroy it.

 

The day to day aspects of his life, the details, are what I'm wondering about. Would anyone bother to model hardened buttons? What about a hardened ceramic pocket knife? Would you bother, or is it just a "flavor" detail, possibly useful under some weird McGuyver like circumstances, but unlikely enough so as not to be worth modeling?

 

I'm planning on modeling it as a 5 point phys. lim., but I'm wondering about the rest of the minutiae - worth noting? Worth modeling?

 

What say thee?

[Talon]

Re: Would you model hardened buttons?

 

I'm not sure what the exact question is. If you're asking "should the character pay points for Hardened clothing and basic utensils?", then I would be inclined to say no in most campaigns. (Conversely, however, he might lose them at some point and have some delay in getting new ones.)

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Would you model hardened buttons?

 

Had a player with a character like this in another game. Different concept of course, and we used transform "item into broken version of item" but the basic idea was the same. We called it the Shner effect, after the character.

 

 

To avoid suffering the downsides of it personally, consider tasking Personal Immunity towards that purpose.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Would you model hardened buttons?

 

As a power or side effect:

 

Killing Attack - Ranged 1 point, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Penetrating (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Continuous (+1) (20 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about two-thirds of its effectiveness: only v manufactured substances (-1 1/2), Always On (-1/2)

 

OR

 

Killing Attack - Ranged 1 point, Penetrating (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Damage Shield (Offensive; +3/4), Continuous (+1) (21 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about two-thirds of its effectiveness: only v manufactured substances (-1 1/2), Always On (-1/2)

 

Both 7 real points.

 

As a physical disadvantage:

 

Physical Limitation: (Frequently, Slightly Impairing) 10 points

 

or even greatly impairing (15 points), depending on how it works in play - I'm assuming a modern world. That's a lot of broken glass....

[Trebuchet]

Re: Would you model hardened buttons?

 

Buttons were made out of bone and shell centuries before they were made of plastic or refined metals.

 

I'd probably model it with a Disad rather than as a Power. That way the GM gets some say in how it manifests.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Would you model hardened buttons?

 

What this guy needs is a Personal Locality Opposing Transmogrifier Device which counters his ability allowing him to wear and use whatever he needs to. As a SFX, his normal clothing and personal items have been in the field of this enchantment long enough to become effectively immune to the anti-tech field.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Would you model hardened buttons?

 

If it's just a set of clothing and normal objects of utility, then I wouldn't bother to model them. You can easily say that he has his own wardrobe of clothing/collection of ordinary utensils that are made to withstand his nature, but if he tries to put on clothing/use tools not built to this specification, they get destroyed eventually.

 

BTW, I have a serious problem with "1 pip RKA, Penetrating" being assumed to automatically always do 1 pip of BODY damage through non-Hardened Defenses. The amount of Penetrating damage is supposed to be the amount of BODY pips rolled on the dice (i.e., none for 1's rolled, one for 2's-5's, and two for 6's rolled). Since no dice are being rolled here (or you could call it one die that automatically always rolls a 1), there should be no penetrating damage. "1d6 RKA, Penetrating, Standard Effect" will always get 1 pip through, or an average of 1 pip without Standard Effect. "1/2d6 RKA, Penetrating" should get 1 pip through half the time. And I could see letting "1 pip, penetrating" get 1 pip through 1/6 of the time, but not *all* the time.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Would you model hardened buttons?

 

don't forget the psych limit:

 

Can't pass the chance to destroy a bell.

[BoneDaddy]

Re: Would you model hardened buttons?

 

don't forget the psych limit:

 

Can't pass the chance to destroy a bell.

As his predecessor was known to say: "These Blockbuster bombs don't go off unless you hit them juuuuuuuust right."

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Would you model hardened buttons?

 

BTW' date=' I have a serious problem with "1 pip RKA, Penetrating" being assumed to automatically always do 1 pip of BODY damage through non-Hardened Defenses. The amount of Penetrating damage is supposed to be the amount of BODY pips rolled on the dice (i.e., none for 1's rolled, one for 2's-5's, and two for 6's rolled). Since no dice are being rolled here (or you could call it one die that automatically always rolls a 1), there should be no penetrating damage. "1d6 RKA, Penetrating, Standard Effect" will always get 1 pip through, or an average of 1 pip without Standard Effect. "1/2d6 RKA, Penetrating" should get 1 pip through half the time. And I could see letting "1 pip, penetrating" get 1 pip through 1/6 of the time, but not *all* the time.[/quote']

 

I agree. I'd let the 1 pip have a 1d6 roll. On a 6, it has 1 penetrating BOD. To make 1 DC more effective than 2 DC, and averaging the same as 3DC, is not rational.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Would you model hardened buttons?

 

I've always wondered why we don't have:

 

Killing attacks

 

1DC = 1 pip killing

2DC = 1/2d6 or 2 pips killing (standard effect)

3DC = 1d6 or 3 pips (standard effect)

 

Personally, looking at the sfx for the ability, I can't see how hardenning most substances would help: I presume this is some sort of magic/evil/entropy effect, and if so, I'd imagine that just making the button tougher might make it last longer, but would not make it actually invulnerable: you'd need some sort of magical protection.

 

That leads me to wonder whether you might not be better off building this a s a small BODY drain rather than as a KA with penetrating?

[Vondy]

Re: Would you model hardened buttons?

 

Absolutely not.

 

I would clearly define the SFX and apply them in a logical, consistent manner.

 

There is no reason to slap hardened onto items the power doesn't logically affect as defined by its SFX.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Would you model hardened buttons?

 

Absolutely not.

 

I would clearly define the SFX and apply them in a logical, consistent manner.

 

There is no reason to slap hardened onto items the power doesn't logically affect as defined by its SFX.

 

It may be then that a NND would be more appropriate or (depending if you allow 'generic power defence or not) a small drain?

 

Killing Attack - Ranged 1 point, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Damage Shield (Offensive; +3/4), No Normal Defense ([standard]; +1), Does BODY (+1), Continuous (+1) (29 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about two-thirds of its effectiveness (-1 1/2), Always On (-1/2)

 

The defence would be any kind of specific magic or entropy defences or even a blessing or ritual of protection that would not normally have any in-game effect. The character himself could not perfiorm such a blessing or ritual, and the effects last at the discretion fo the GM.

 

10 points real.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Would you model hardened buttons?

 

BTW' date=' I have a serious problem with "1 pip RKA, Penetrating" being assumed to automatically always do 1 pip of BODY damage through non-Hardened Defenses. The amount of Penetrating damage is supposed to be the amount of BODY pips rolled on the dice (i.e., none for 1's rolled, one for 2's-5's, and two for 6's rolled). Since no dice are being rolled here (or you could call it one die that automatically always rolls a 1), there should be no penetrating damage. "1d6 RKA, Penetrating, Standard Effect" will always get 1 pip through, or an average of 1 pip without Standard Effect. "1/2d6 RKA, Penetrating" should get 1 pip through half the time. And I could see letting "1 pip, penetrating" get 1 pip through 1/6 of the time, but not *all* the time.[/quote']

 

I completely agree. It's a built in cheat to the rules in my opinion. You can't buy a 1 pip EB Penetrating for 3 points and say it automatically does 1 STUN. Or can you? Well, based upon the official rule for KA maybe you can. Hogwash as far as I'm concerned. If you want to do a single point of Penetrating damage you buy a whole d6 of KA and use Standard Effect.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Would you model hardened buttons?

 

I've always wondered why we don't have:

 

Killing attacks

 

1DC = 1 pip killing

2DC = 1/2d6 or 2 pips killing (standard effect)

3DC = 1d6 or 3 pips (standard effect)

Isn't that what we do have?

[casualplayer]

Re: Would you model hardened buttons?

 

Must have to use leaves or silk to wipe his bottom. For that matter, how can he write? Or ever turn a page? Does beer count as technology? Good god, he may not be able to drink beer!

 

This is sounding like a 50 pt Social Limitation the more I think about it.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Would you model hardened buttons?

 

Must have to use leaves or silk to wipe his bottom. For that matter, how can he write? Or ever turn a page? Does beer count as technology? Good god, he may not be able to drink beer!

 

This is sounding like a 50 pt Social Limitation the more I think about it.

 

[BoneDaddy]

Re: Would you model hardened buttons?

 

I'd put about a minute of extra time on the damage shield, which should get him through the average sip of beer with a little practice. He isn't a disintegration ray, he's just an entropic accellerant. He writes with a quill pen. I think his damaging effects would be limited to things with moving parts, things with metal alloys, or things with petroleum products. Beer, saints be praised, would not be included in any such category. The glue in some books would be OK, but much of his library would likely resemble the old 4th edition blue book.

 

I note that this would include prophylactics. If a gremlin wouldn't destroy those naturally, it wouldn't be a gremlin, would it?

 

Yeah, about that team communicator...

[Dust Raven]

Re: Would you model hardened buttons?

 

Must have to use leaves or silk to wipe his bottom. For that matter, how can he write? Or ever turn a page? Does beer count as technology? Good god, he may not be able to drink beer!

 

This is sounding like a 50 pt Social Limitation the more I think about it.

Not to mention any sort of prepared food! Can you imagine this guy trying to eat a pizza? Sloppy Joes and some burgers from Carls Jr., however, will mysteriously stick together and can be eaten with no mess whatsoever.