FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

[OddHat]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

But' date=' once again, while you are on screen adventuring (and this is still adventuring, in my view - political adventuring), the mage isn't off screen studying to gain power, correct?[/quote']

 

Incorrect. You play both your Wizard and your Grognard(s), and sometimes your own apprentice. While your Wizard is on screen, the Grognards are generally off; while you play your Grognard(s), your Wizard is studying.

[Korvar]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

Plus, you can take about 10 days off studying (or so, it's been a while since I had the rules in front of me) and still get a Season's study done.

 

But yes, a Mage character who adventures basically can't improve their magical abilities that Season. But usually that's okay, because there are other things you can only improve with XP. Also, adventuring is generally the only way to get stuff for your Covenant (the home base). Many people consider the Covenant to be another character in the campaign.

 

It does sound a bit odd, if you're used to deeyandee style gaming, but I've played in a couple of long-term Ars Magica campaigns, and it does work.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

Plus, you can take about 10 days off studying (or so, it's been a while since I had the rules in front of me) and still get a Season's study done.

 

But yes, a Mage character who adventures basically can't improve their magical abilities that Season. But usually that's okay, because there are other things you can only improve with XP. Also, adventuring is generally the only way to get stuff for your Covenant (the home base). Many people consider the Covenant to be another character in the campaign.

 

It does sound a bit odd, if you're used to deeyandee style gaming, but I've played in a couple of long-term Ars Magica campaigns, and it does work.

 

I believe the system can work. What I am saying is that it is not structured to encourage players to have their characters spend their time in studies, rather than adventuring. It simply provides a different mechanism to permit the mage "component" of the "gestalt character" to spend time studying. I would suggest the system would not work if players played only a mage and that mage's abilities could only (or even best) be improved by studying in a secure environment, rather than engaging in adventuring in some fashion.

[Korvar]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

Well, maybe. You can always adventure, then take three months off

[Steve]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

9) That the function of a wizard is to be a walking artillary platform.

 

I'd expand on this to say that a wizard's function is to be a glass cannon. They can deal out the damage, but they can't take it.

[OddHat]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

I believe the system can work. What I am saying is that it is not structured to encourage players to have their characters spend their time in studies' date=' rather than adventuring. It simply provides a different mechanism to permit the mage "component" of the "gestalt character" to spend time studying. I would suggest the system would not work if players played only a mage and that mage's abilities could only (or even best) be improved by studying in a secure environment, rather than engaging in adventuring in some fashion.[/quote']

 

Well' date=' maybe. You can always adventure, then take three months off [/quote']

 

Or you could run a game entirely around University Life, as in GURPS IOU or a Discworld variant, with the rule that only XP gained through study may be spent on new spells an KS.

[Drhoz]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

 

54a) Some of these planes represent the afterlife - but you can still travel there even if you're alive. And they're all well-defined and concrete, just like the real world. The afterlife is a matter of factual knowledge, rather than faith.

 

54b) Even though the conditions of the afterlife planes are well-known, well-documented, and objectively true, some people still choose to be evil, even though they know for an absolute fact, that it will mean an eternity of torture and pain.

 

Yeah, but if you're really evil, you get recruited. Or so you've heard - from Evil priests.

 

Alternatively, be as monstrous bastard all your life, then beg forgiveness on your deathbed. It supposedly works in this reality

[Curufea]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

Alternatively' date=' be as monstrous bastard all your life, then beg forgiveness on your deathbed. It supposedly works in [i']this [/i]reality

I'm still waiting on someone from the "other side" to confirm that for me

[assault]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

I'd expand on this to say that a wizard's function is to be a glass cannon. They can deal out the damage' date=' but they can't take it.[/quote']

 

This is only true at the lower end of the power scale. Enough magic tends to turn this around.

 

Come to think of it, even when I've played moderate level D&D wizards, there have been cases where my fighter screen has been so depleted that my wizard has had to take the front row. Fortunately, I usually used to have spells that made that feasible. Then again, I didn't really play artillery mages, and instead concentrated on doing what the fighters couldn't. That probably had a lot to do with why my fighter screen would become so weak...

[Korvar]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

Yeah, eventually the mage becomes a glass cannon - with Star Trek Shields

[Blue Jogger]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

53) Most modern (or near modern) ideas can be retrofitted into a fantasy campaign even when it makes no sense whatsoever.

 

53a) Everyone has "equal" rights, even kings, nobels, merchants, peasants and slaves.

 

53b) Even though magic and water are supposely rare, everyone is immaculately clean.

 

53c) The economy is so stable that there are fixed prices for everything, even status symbols like land, boats, and castles. There's enough hyperinflation that it is far cheaper to melt down copper pieces and have a mage shape it into a castle-shaped object then it is is to actually buy it with gold. Oddly enough, when mithril coins are introduced, no one will think of melting them to make a sword (if coins are common) or melting a mithril sword to produce coins (if coins are rare and expensive).

[Curufea]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

57) Fire is not a hazard, it is an inconvenience. It should be wandered through at a slightly greater speed than areas not on fire. It kills NPCs normally. The higher your level, the less of an inconvenience it is. (thank to Order of the Stick for reminding me of that one).

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

OK, these last two, from Blue Jogger and Curufea, should be numbered 56 (and 56a, 56b, 56c), and 57, respectively.

 

And inspired by Steve, above:

 

58) A cleric's roll is to be a healer, and to occasionally specialize in delaing with undead. When there are no undead around, and no one needs healing, they are second-string (and second-rate) fighters.

 

58a) No one other than a cleric is allowed to have healing magic.

[Curufea]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

58b) Those that can heal even slightly have stunted clerical powers (e.g. Paladin)

58c) Cleric is an occupation, not a calling. Anyone can do it if they put in the right hours and do the right rituals. They don't actually need to believe or have conviction, nor do they need to proselytize or convert others through living by example. Apparently Paladins have that job now.

58d) All gods believe all other gods also exist, as do all their followers. There are no disputes on the existence of any god by the followers of any other god.

[Markdoc]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

58) A cleric's roll is to be a healer' date=' and to occasionally specialize in delaing with undead. When there are no undead around, and no one needs healing, they are second-string (and second-rate) fighters.[/quote']

 

Actually not any more - the existence of buffing spells now makes Clerics (albeit for limited periods of time) monstrous engines of destruction.

 

cheers, Mark

[Shaddakim]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

58d) All gods believe all other gods also exist' date=' as do all their followers. There are no disputes on the existence of any god by the followers of any other god.[/quote']

 

As Terry Pratchett pointed out, it is hard to be an atheist when the gods themselves can come around and throw rocks through your windows.

 

In most FRPG games, the gods can directly intervene in the affairs of mortals. This leaves little doubt as to their existance.

 

A more egregious sin is:

 

58e) You do not have to believe in anything in particular to gain access to divine spells. You can "worship" generic Good and be granted spells.

[Shaddakim]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

5) The idea that each race has their own gods. There's a "god of elves" and a "god of dwarves," but never a "god of humans."

 

Not true for over twenty years. Each race has its own pantheon, whether they are used is up to the players and the GM.

 

7) The assumption that large amounts of metal disrupts certain types of magic.

 

I'll quibble here - the current definition (3.x) is that magic requires unrestrained movement to cast. Why you need to be able to limbo to cast spells is still beyond me, though.

 

8) That magic always comes in individual, discrete spells. And there's a specific number of them, and each one is precisely defined.

 

This is a product of the Jack Vance Dying Earth books which were (some of) the sources of the magic system. Therefore, D&D is the carrier of the tradition, not the source.

[Shaddakim]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

12) That it's normal for people (even "adventurers) to walk around in full armor in their daily lives. In city, over land, etc.

 

In city, not so much, but when travelling overland - yes, particularly in areas with little in the way of law and particularly by individuals whose profession involves fighting. The power of the law only extends as far as there are lawmen. Travelling in medieval Europe was not particularly safe away from cities, settlements, and well traveled roads.

[Shaddakim]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

46) The price of everything is fixed. There are "standard" goods available just about anywhere and they always cost the same price, according to a specific price list that all the players have access to. Despite the common-sense laws of economics that even the most magically-influenced quasi-historical world would be subject to.

 

47) There is a functionally infinite amount of money-metal (gold, silver, copper, and perhaps others) around such that there are always enough coins around. Dragons can sit for a thousand years on a huge pile of gold coins without having the slightest impact on the local economy.

 

Both of these set squarely upon the shoulders of the GM. If the GM wants to handle a variable economy, they can. If they don't, no fair complaining about being forced to.

[Shaddakim]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

45) No amount of study and research at any institute or university will enable a Mage to learn more spells. They must go out and kill things. Killing things makes you powerful. Knowledge does not.

 

Same thing in Fantasy Hero. Going out and doing things makes you powerful, not your Knowledge Skills.

[Shaddakim]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

54) The mileu contains scads of different "planes of existence" which anyone can travel to via magic. All of these planes are fully detailed in a concrete and absolute way' date=' and defined in terms of the "prime material plane": it's hotter on this plane, time goes slower here, there's no ground beneath your feet here, this place is filled with water, the air is poisonous here, etc.[/quote']

 

Most PCs are from the "prime material plane" making it the common yardstick and point of reference. The number of campaigns starting elsewhere and travelling to the prime are finite and the GM can (generally speaking) reverse the description in those cases. ("Hi, we're from Bifrost. Why is it so hot here and where is all the snow?")

[Shaddakim]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

53) Most modern (or near modern) ideas can be retrofitted into a fantasy campaign even when it makes no sense whatsoever.

 

53a) Everyone has "equal" rights, even kings, nobels, merchants, peasants and slaves.

 

53b) Even though magic and water are supposely rare, everyone is immaculately clean.

 

This has more to do with fantasy novels than D&D. Additionally, few players want the level of cultural accuracy the negation of the above points would require. There is nothing in the rules that mandates any of the above.

[Shaddakim]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

And, Phil?

 

I only replied more to your issues than anyone else because you posted more issues than anyone else.

 

None of my replies invalidate any of the other issues raised. particularly the ones about alignments.

 

 

Perhaps especially the ones about alignments.

[Korvar]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

Same thing in Fantasy Hero. Going out and doing things makes you powerful' date=' not your Knowledge Skills.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I remember a Fantasy Hero campaign I was in; we were journeying to a new country, and someone asked "How quickly do you pick up languages?"

 

Me: "Depends what we've been doing recently."

[Curufea]

Re: FRPG Ideas from D&D that ain't necessarily so

 

 

7) The assumption that large amounts of metal disrupts certain types of magic.

 

I'll quibble here - the current definition (3.x) is that magic requires unrestrained movement to cast. Why you need to be able to limbo to cast spells is still beyond me, though.

 

I think this is more to do with the class restriction of "Why don't wizards wear armour?"