Dive for Cover

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Dive for Cover

 

I see it as a glitch' date=' because the character doing the DFC is standing right next to his attacker. If the character dodges (ie: makes a desperate attempt to get out of the way of an attack) he has a reduced chance of getting hit - but the attacker still has a [b']chance[/b] to connect. If the character DFCs (ie: makes a desperate attempt to get out of the way of an attack) the attacker has no chance to hit unless the target actually fail the attempt.

 

It's not such a big deal for heroic level games where the chances of failing are significant, but in some of our superheroic games we had characters who could make a 1 hex DFC on a DEX roll of 18-. It meant if they wanted to burn an action, they could essentially dodge almost any HTH attack, regardless of the attacker's OCV (Hugh's already mentioned this). And someone with a DEX in the high 30's usually has phases to burn.

 

I think Supers games are where this really falls apart, especially since the "Megavillain" scenario is fairly common. The example provided, where all the heroes reserve waiting for the villain to pick a target, then the target dives for cover while the rest attack, highlights the problem.

 

I've been in combats where one or two characters engage the megavillain at a time, while the others hang back to recover from prior phases against the megavillain. These felt a bit manipulative, but also fit the source material which commonly moves from a dogpile on the megavillain to one or two characters in the action. Characters who continually evade the master villain's attack seem much rarer, and restricted to the SpierMan/Batman/Cap type characters who evade through vastly superior combat ability/agility/dodging.

 

I like the idea of combination maneuvers - the character announces a DFC, and this is considered to be a DFC if the attack is arrea effect, or a (martial/flying) dodge if the attack is not AoE makes more sense to me than "I dive a meter backwards so he can't possibly hit me". Mind you, I also like the idea of a combined Block/Missile Deflect. The rules provide for neither of these, but I think the structure would be good.

[jaws]

Re: Dive for Cover

 

When you DFC, you are Prone. You cannot use Breakfall (and by extension Position Shift) to nullify the Prone penalty.

 

From the 5ER FAQ:

 

Question: Does the Position Shift Adder for Teleportation have any effect on Dive For Cover — for example, does it

allow a character to Dive For Cover without suffering “prone” penalties.

 

Answer: No.

 

This I agree with. however in emulating an interesting ability from other fantasy systems. Would an ability such as Teleport 1" Position Shift Trigger:hit the ground after DFC(no time) only to stand up from prone. work? you think? Would it be way to overpowered for a fantasy campaign?

 

I accept that but the quote was out of context - for the example I gave, position shift, means that you can effectively get to your feet for free, so you won't need to worry about penalties to your DEX roll for your NEXt aborted DFC roll if you are slower.

 

If you are DFCing with flight or, for that matter TP, I'm not sure how you wind up prone anyway. Indeed you could DFC straight up with flight (albeit at only 1/4 of your total move in effect) and get out of melee range that way.

 

I don't think its the actual fact that you hit the ground that gives you the "prone" status. It is the fact that you are in a desperate last ditch attempt to get away from an attack that leaves you in an disadvantageous position and unprepared for other attacks

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Dive for Cover

 

You can build your mega villains so they are harder to DFC dog pile. Most properly built (ie the ones that I was in, that worked well) single character vs a group of PCs encounters feature some of the following ...

1) Boss uses AoEs to hit multiple people a turn

2) Boss has higher Dex than PCs and holds actions to make them go (using optional rule that person with the highest dex gets to announce their held action last).

3) Boss Uses rapid fire, sweeps, multiple power attacks, auto fire etc to attack more than one person at a time.

4) One boss had a massive entangle that kept several PCs down for 1-2 phases while a single PC evasion-tanked it.

5) Higher speed, where if you DFC, then you are saved one round, and before the PC gets another action to recover, the boss will act. PCs can usually tell this one ahead of time, and know enough not to get DFC head stomped.

 

Sometimes bosses don't use the options, but then they probably have other methods to avoid their target just DFCing every round. Another good one is a change environment to give penalties to DEX rolls (one boss with an Zamboni ray, and you never forget it)

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Dive for Cover

 

This I agree with. however in emulating an interesting ability from other fantasy systems. Would an ability such as Teleport 1" Position Shift Trigger:hit the ground after DFC(no time) only to stand up from prone. work? you think? Would it be way to overpowered for a fantasy campaign?

 

Depends on the campaign. I probably wouldn't allow it, but a more lenient GM might

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Dive for Cover

 

This I agree with. however in emulating an interesting ability from other fantasy systems. Would an ability such as Teleport 1" Position Shift Trigger:hit the ground after DFC(no time) only to stand up from prone. work? you think? Would it be way to overpowered for a fantasy campaign?

 

Kill the only after dive for cover and you have a build for creatures that never fall down, or whose body construction there is not actual prone (Say a man sized amoeba)

[jaws]

Re: Dive for Cover

 

Kill the only after dive for cover and you have a build for creatures that never fall down' date=' or whose body construction there is not actual prone (Say a man sized amoeba)[/quote']

 

My construct is questionable, this sounds outright abusive . But It is a clear path this would lead to... how powerful an eraser can be