Jump to content

'Divine' Characters


CrosshairCollie

Recommended Posts

Something I'm curious about ... a fellow player and I have a difference of opinion on this subject.

 

For those of you who have played characters connected, in some way, to a source generally considered to be divine or spiritual ... say, you found Mjolnir, or channel the power of some pantheon or other.

 

(I came very close to opening this thread in the NGD, so if it gets moved, I'll definitely understand.)

 

Does the source of the character's power obligate that the character become a member of a religion appropriate to such? For example, if your character had Apollo's bow or somesuch, would you feel that this should automatically make him worship the Olympian pantheon? If Shiva appeared before someone and granted them power, does that automatically make the character a Hindu?

 

This hasn't caused any arguments or anything, but for the specifics, his character is an Egyptian descendent of the Pharaohs and he feels this means he must worship the Pharaonic pantheon (which I don't think is an automatic truth), whereas my character (in another game) channels the power of Inari and the celestial kitsune houses and remains an atheist, not a Shintoist (which he thinks is weird). It came up once when his character in Vixen's game asked her a question about the Fortunes (the one of luck ... he has luck powers) and my response was "How should I know? Use Google."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

To some extent, it depends on the pantheon. A particular jealous deity (not naming names) might not let His powers work for anybody who doesn't worship Him.

 

By contrast, Vixen wouldn't have any serious trouble, I wouldn't think.

 

The Norse? Their toys work for anybody, as long as you can lift it. Mythological precedent.

 

In most cases, there's no reason for it. After all - if I buy a Civil War era cavalry saber that belonged to a Confederate general, does that mean I revere their ideals?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

Something I'm curious about ... a fellow player and I have a difference of opinion on this subject.

 

For those of you who have played characters connected, in some way, to a source generally considered to be divine or spiritual ... say, you found Mjolnir, or channel the power of some pantheon or other.

 

(I came very close to opening this thread in the NGD, so if it gets moved, I'll definitely understand.)

 

Does the source of the character's power obligate that the character become a member of a religion appropriate to such? For example, if your character had Apollo's bow or somesuch, would you feel that this should automatically make him worship the Olympian pantheon? If Shiva appeared before someone and granted them power, does that automatically make the character a Hindu?

 

This hasn't caused any arguments or anything, but for the specifics, his character is an Egyptian descendent of the Pharaohs and he feels this means he must worship the Pharaonic pantheon (which I don't think is an automatic truth), whereas my character (in another game) channels the power of Inari and the celestial kitsune houses and remains an atheist, not a Shintoist (which he thinks is weird). It came up once when his character in Vixen's game asked her a question about the Fortunes (the one of luck ... he has luck powers) and my response was "How should I know? Use Google."

 

 

Play it as you will, however

 

I think that a character who gets his powers from such a source should probably think that they are real, this is not necesarily the same as faith (for that matter I would propose that he could not have faith as faith has that "what is not seen" clause). He could for instance think that they are aliens (From space, another dimension, secret society)

 

So to use the specifics above, I think he would think that there is a reason for the Egyption Patheon, be it ancient mutants, divine origins, or aliens, while your character would have to beleive that there is some group that gives him his powers, but wether they are divine or not is up to yhou

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

For that matter, just because you believe that gods (note the lower-case "g") exist doesn't mean you have to worship them. I recall that in one of the Lankhmar stories, there was an entire island populated by "athiests". Not people who refused to believe in the gods, because there was clear evidence that the gods existed. Instead, these were people who felt that none of the gods was worthy of worship, and so they organized their society around a group of philosophical ideals instead.

 

You can also see this at work in Terry Pratchet's Discworld series--the existence and power of the gods is observed fact, but not everyone chooses to worship any of them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

This'd seem to be one of those "There's a difference between knowing god/the gods exist and actively believing in/worshiping them" thing that was brought up in the film Constantine (which I only recently saw).

 

Do you have to worship them to gain their power? I'm with the "depends entirely on the deity/deities in question" side of the issue. Some might only allow you to use their gifts if you actively worship them, some may see the simple act of using their gifts as an act of worship and not press the issue any further. (If word gets out that Hammer-Hand has Mjolnir grafted to his arm, then even if he doesn't worship the Norse pantheon, others may start to simply because there is now tangible proof of their existence & power.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

You could certainly have a campaign setting where the existence of supernatural/extradimensional beings, including those considered deities, is well-known, but those who are atheists simply do not see them as the supreme controlling entities of all existence, nor do they believe that such an entity exists.

 

If your character is imbued with the powers of a god, then they should probably have some kind of interaction with that being and its associated pantheon. If your character is the descendant of a god, then their attitude toward the god/pantheon could span a pretty broad range of possibilities. If your character is a god themselves, then they may have a "post-modern Asgardian" mentality, some melding of ancient mores and modern sensibilities. I assume Loki has a cell phone and never switches it off, even in movie theaters.;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

Its a good question and I think needs to narrowed down a little.

 

Do the Divine Powers that be require the Hero's Worship.

 

Do the Divine Powers that be require traditional Worship, Modern Religious Observances, or Truth Faith.

 

I just watched Constantine last night and Gabriel told John the difference between Knowing God exists and having Faith. I think it was a good one.

 

QM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

The Marvel Family are empowered by Shazam tapping into the "divinity" of multiple pantheons without ever obligating any Marvel to increase the flock or pay obeisance. Wonder Woman both honors and contests with various members of the Greek pantheon.

 

You certainly couldn't remain Agnostic, my friend from the Show Me State, once you have met a god in the flesh but true faith can't be compelled even if it comes with benefits. Like most things, it's a choice of character.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

I can see no reason why a character would have to worship a god or pantheon because they are the source of their powers. The character might not believe in the divine power, but it may believe in them ;).

 

There are a couple of provisos. Firstly, the god in question may expect worship in return for power. This is dependent on the god/pantheon in question and largely a question for the GM. I'd feel it should be discussed with the player before hand to make sure everyone is with the situation and any complications that may result from it. Secondly, even if worship isn't required the god/pantheon is going to take an interest in the character. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

In the sense that "true believers" are traditionally the ones awarded such trinkets and powers, typically the recipient does believe in and worship their divine power.

 

But I don't think it's exclusive. Look at all the stories of a child of the devil who doesn't worship him and yet has his power. Often power is supplied as a means of corruption in those cases (Absolute power corrupts absolutely). But I'd find it interesting to, for example, play a man who could raise the dead using Osiris' Ankh, but who believes it has some kind of unknown scientific reason, not a religious one. I'd find it even more interesting that Osiris let him continue on. Again, the reasoning would likely be that he'd "come around" to the truth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

There are a couple of provisos. Firstly, the god in question may expect worship in return for power. This is dependent on the god/pantheon in question and largely a question for the GM. I'd feel it should be discussed with the player before hand to make sure everyone is with the situation and any complications that may result from it. Secondly, even if worship isn't required the god/pantheon is going to take an interest in the character. :D

 

Agreed, really, different GMs have different takes on divinities, sometimes not in accordance to the classic portrayals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

Something I'm curious about ... a fellow player and I have a difference of opinion on this subject.

 

For those of you who have played characters connected, in some way, to a source generally considered to be divine or spiritual ... say, you found Mjolnir, or channel the power of some pantheon or other.

 

(I came very close to opening this thread in the NGD, so if it gets moved, I'll definitely understand.)

 

Does the source of the character's power obligate that the character become a member of a religion appropriate to such? For example, if your character had Apollo's bow or somesuch, would you feel that this should automatically make him worship the Olympian pantheon? If Shiva appeared before someone and granted them power, does that automatically make the character a Hindu?

 

This hasn't caused any arguments or anything, but for the specifics, his character is an Egyptian descendent of the Pharaohs and he feels this means he must worship the Pharaonic pantheon (which I don't think is an automatic truth), whereas my character (in another game) channels the power of Inari and the celestial kitsune houses and remains an atheist, not a Shintoist (which he thinks is weird). It came up once when his character in Vixen's game asked her a question about the Fortunes (the one of luck ... he has luck powers) and my response was "How should I know? Use Google."

 

I did not read the thread before repling...but; If you have a "No other before me!" Type group or power then joining the club would be manditory. But if the power is effectivly useing you to serve it's ends then it by definition dosen't care about you. And for the rest, well, all the stuff in between!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

To some extent, it depends on the pantheon. A particular jealous deity (not naming names) might not let His powers work for anybody who doesn't worship Him.

 

By contrast, Vixen wouldn't have any serious trouble, I wouldn't think.

 

The Norse? Their toys work for anybody, as long as you can lift it. Mythological precedent.

 

In most cases, there's no reason for it. After all - if I buy a Civil War era cavalry saber that belonged to a Confederate general, does that mean I revere their ideals?

 

And if it's a trickster god you might have gained your powers through some other way and he/she/it's just claimimg credit!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

I am reminded of the encounter where the deity in question explained' date=' "I have millions of worshippers. I don't need your worship. I want you to do a job for me."[/quote']

 

Go Bahzell! :) Loved those books.

 

As to the question - I don't see it as required.

 

A character might do so, depending on his approach. Or he might see the god like the Green Lanterns see the Oans - the guys that gave him the power, but not to be worshipped.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

I'm reminded of the Jherg novels by Steven Brust. In them, the main character keeps trying to figure out what another character's job is. She shrugs, and says something along the lines of "I greet guests and make sure the house is suitable for visitors." But this doesn't quite fit what he sees her doing. After a while, she realized the issue, and says "Oh. in your language, I'm a priestess." Because in her culture's eyes, the gods were (just) powerful individuals that came and visited occasionally. Thus, those who dealt with the gods were considered specialized butlers.

 

I agree with the comment that you'll have to play with the definition of 'athiest' if objective evidence of the supernatural is available. One such way of doing it is claiming that any sufficient evidence for the existence of the supernatural would indicate that the supernatural doesn't actually exist: that if you can present evidence for magic, then it's not really magic - it's psychic powers, or elemental forces of the universe, or whatever. It's the whole issue of "if you can give evidence for it, then it's not SUPER-natural. It's just a part of natural that we didn't understand beforehand."

 

On the issue of believing in the gods - for most, it seems to come down to interpersonal relationships. Does the character believe in his friends and allies? ie, does he count on them, respect them, trust them, etc? If so, I would find it difficult for someone already empowered by that god's existence NOT to believe in them. However, it may depend on the god in question: as others have said, it may strictly be a business transaction. But most examples of supernatural empowerment comes from folks who already had a personal relationship, and the power was merely a manifestation of that.

 

But this also begs the question of "what is worship?" One could argue that it's simply giving the respect and consideration due to the individual in question. And when you're dealing with a millennial-old Intelligence that exists in multiple realities simultaneously, that's going to be quite a lot, even if there are OTHER such entities out there, more powerful than the one you're currently talking to. Sure, gods as displayed in mythology tend to be kinda dumb; but there's something different between reading about how Thor was tricked, and dealing with his +100 PRE existence when he's in the room.

 

So, in conclusion? Technically a character doesn't NEED to have such a relationship. However, it's playing against the archtype. Doing it once is interesting - but if everyone suddenly starts doing it (a certian scimitar-wielding Drow Elf comes to mind), then it starts looking kinda odd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

Certainly, the existence of deities from polytheistic pantheons, angels, demons, magic, observable miracles, other dimensions, mutants, aliens, cloning, zombies, etc will play havoc with organized religion and likely cause more than a few theologians to have nervous breakdowns trying to update the canons of their faith to keep up with "the facts on the ground".

Certainly if you're a dedicated monotheist and a group of "pagan gods" shows up to save you from your burning home, it might throw you for a bit of a loop.

 

GMs can definitely mess with the players if they create NPC pantheons and entities who don't always fit the stereotype(a "demon" who is occasionally helpful, an "angel" who is unpleasant and sometimes downright malevolent, a "god of war" who is polite and diplomatic, an elf who is crude and unsophisticated, etc.).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

As a GM, what I want to do is portray angels as almost completely alien entities, and demons as essentially human. Why? Because Angels are in constant communion with the Divine, and as such they are nearly unknowable. In contrast, the Fallen are acting on their own will and desires. 99.99% of the time, a human being is going to relate more to the latter than to the former.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

Someday I will figure out where the angels are nice and demons are mean comes from, angels are good, demons are evil. Some of the worst people I know are very polite, but they will stab you in the back, while a angel could very easy be a total jerk (Though has disrespected your mother, now I will cut you in two with my flaming sword young one)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

And if it's a trickster god you might have gained your powers through some other way and he/she/it's just claimimg credit!

Well, yes - but if it's a trickster god, you might *also* just be part of a great cosmic punchline.

 

Which explains the fates of a great many of my characters, actually....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

And here I was getting ready to be grossed out by a hero with powers requiring OAF: Pink Flamingos.

 

 

:eek::idjit:

 

Never got too far in the campaign to explore it, but I had a suicidal musician who was an atheist ending up playing host body to a fallen angel trying to earn redemption.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

Angel and Demon Resources

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1311119#post1311119

 

[Review] Gestalt: The Hero Within - Resources

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60560

 

Olympian Deities by Enforcer84

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=789781#post789781

 

 

Hmmm...

 

 

QM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

1. Does the source of the character's power obligate that the character become a member of a religion appropriate to such? 2. For example, if your character had Apollo's bow or somesuch, would you feel that this should automatically make him worship the Olympian pantheon?

3. If Shiva appeared before someone and granted them power, does that automatically make the character a Hindu?

 

4. his character is an Egyptian descendent of the Pharaohs and he feels this means he must worship the Pharaonic pantheon (which I don't think is an automatic truth)

 

5. whereas my character (in another game) channels the power of Inari and the celestial kitsune houses and remains an atheist, not a Shintoist (which he thinks is weird).

 

To wit:

 

1. No. However, he might end up having a contact that practices that religion. Or he might even end up having followers of that religion whom might see the character as being important to their Deity.

 

2. See #1. However, add one thing: how would he know who Apollo was and whether or not his bow was important? Does the character have the appropriate KS?

 

3. No. However, what would the character do with this contact and how would the locals respond to the contact? This differs from #1 in that Hinduism is an huge religion/pantheon and is generally tolerant to those whom merely dabble in it.

 

4. Ah! Player's Choice. Perhaps that's the answer to your question.

 

5. So, your character might see it as karma or luck rather than a religion or spirituality issue? That could also answer you questions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...