'Divine' Characters

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

4. Ah! Player's Choice. Perhaps that's the answer to your question.

 

Well, yeah, I was more curious if my opinion or his seemed to be the more prevalent amongst a random sample of gamers (and some of you lot are as random as they come ).

 

Basically, I reject stereotypes in gaming (especially in fantasy or sci-fi games where every nonhuman race is a monoculture) and he seems to embrace them.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

Does the source of the character's power obligate that the character become a member of a religion appropriate to such? For example' date=' if your character had Apollo's bow or somesuch, would you feel that this should automatically make him worship the Olympian pantheon? If Shiva appeared before someone and granted them power, does that automatically make the character a Hindu? [/quote']

 

I don't see why it mandates that the character should change their faith. Of course, it could make for some problems if you have to explain yourself to fellow believers (or non-believers, as the case may be). Then again, superhero subplots/soap opera has to have some seed to start with.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

Certainly' date=' the existence of deities from polytheistic pantheons, angels, demons, magic, observable miracles, other dimensions, mutants, aliens, cloning, zombies, etc will play havoc with organized religion and likely cause more than a few theologians to have nervous breakdowns trying to update the canons of their faith to keep up with "the facts on the ground". [/quote']

 

That depends on the theologian. The Catholic Church, AFAIK, has it as an official belief that many 'encounters' with pagan deities are actually misunderstood meetings with angels (I imagine pagans take a vice-versa approach to that).

 

Certainly if you're a dedicated monotheist and a group of "pagan gods" shows up to save you from your burning home' date=' it might throw you for a bit of a loop. [/quote']

 

That's assuming that you believe them when they say that they're gods.

 

They might be demons, or angels, or simply powerful extradimensional beings who think they're gods (or want you to think that, for whatever reason). Or even just superpowered mortals who are egotistical or insane.

 

I can't help but to think that in many superhero worlds, most claims of being a divine being are viewed with amused skepticism. Though a world where metas not only get their powers from divine beings (see White Wolf's Scion for some ideas here), but are worshipped as being divine, would be different.

[Gadodel]

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

Basically, I reject stereotypes in gaming (especially in fantasy or sci-fi games where every nonhuman race is a monoculture) and he seems to embrace them.

I am sorta in the middle, as my reply implies;). Sometimes, something off the wall; especially if spontaneous is refreshing. On the other hand, due to that pesky thing called 'lack of time', using archetypes or stereotypes is quite helpful.

 

Though, come to think of it mixing things up makes things more interesting most of the time. The 13th Warrior: mixing Islam and Viking elements=excellent story. No one had to convert, but rather be somewhat tolerant of the situation.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

Sometimes you can have gods who are no longer being active worshiped "slumming it" in the campaign, not seeking worshipers but not denying their godhood either.

 

Or you can try turning the archetypes on their ear. This character is an example of that:

 

[b]Leon Oliver Kennedy-Isaac - The God of Tricks[/b]

[b][u]VAL[/u]   [u]CHA[/u]   [u]Cost[/u]   [u]Total[/u]   [u]Roll[/u]      [u]Notes[/u][/b]
13    STR     3   13      12-       HTH Damage 2 1/2d6  END [1]
18    DEX     24   18      13-       OCV 6 DCV 6
28    CON     36   28      15-
18    BODY    16   18      13-
28    INT     18   28      15-       PER Roll 15-
33    EGO     46   33      16-       ECV: 11
28    PRE     18   28      15-       PRE Attack: 5 1/2d6
23    COM     7   23      14-
20    PD      17   20             20 PD (20 rPD)
20    ED      14   20             20 ED (20 rED)
5    SPD     22   5                 Phases:  3, 5, 8, 10, 12
12    REC     6   12
65    END     5   65
40    STUN    1   40
6    RUN      0   6"                END [1]
2    SWIM     0   2"                END [1]
3    LEAP     0   2 1/2"                2 1/2" forward, 1" upward

[b]CHA Cost: 232[/b]

[b][u]Cost[/u]   [u]POWERS[/u][/b]
55     Healing BODY 3d6, Can Heal Limbs, Resurrection - END=5
15     Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 25% - END=0
20     Damage Resistance (20 PD/20 ED) - END=0
20     Change Environment 1" radius, -1 to Normal Hearing PER Rolls, Long-Lasting 20 Minutes, Varying Combat Effects 

- END=2
20     Luck 4d6 - END=0
8     Telepathy 2d6 (Human class of minds) (10 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its 

effectiveness (Only to communicate; -1/4) - END=1

[b]POWERS Cost: 138[/b]

[b][u]Cost[/u]   [u]MARTIAL ARTS[/u][/b]
4      Dodge:  1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort
4      Escape:  1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, 28 STR vs. Grabs
3      Takedown:  1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +1 DCV, 2 1/2d6 Strike; Target Falls
3      Throw:  1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, 2 1/2d6 +v/5, Target Falls
1      Weapon Element:  Staffs

[b]MARTIAL ARTS Cost: 15[/b]

[b][u]Cost[/u]   [u]SKILLS[/u][/b]
3      Acting 15-
3      Bribery 15-
3      Bugging 15-
3      Bureaucratics 15-
3      Concealment 15-
3      Conversation 15-
5      Cramming 
3      Criminology 15-
3      Cryptography 15-
3      Deduction 15-
3      Demolitions 15-
3      Disguise 15-
3      Electronics 15-
6      Forgery (Art Objects, Documents, Money (Counterfeiting)) 15-
10      Gambling (Board Games, Card Games, Dice Games, Sports Betting, Roulette) 15-
3      High Society 15-
3      Interrogation 15-
3      Inventor 15-
5      AK: Asgard 14-
4      AK: Las Vegas 13-
4      CuK: Rogues, Rebels and Liars of History 13-
6      Language:  English (imitate dialects; literate)
1      Language:  Norse (imitate dialects; literate) (6 Active Points)
6      Language:  French (imitate dialects; literate)
3      Lockpicking 13-
3      Mimicry 15-
3      Oratory 15-
3      Persuasion 15-
3      Security Systems 15-
3      Seduction 15-
3      Shadowing 15-
3      Streetwise 15-
2      Survival (Arctic/Subarctic) 15-
3      Tactics 15-
3      Trading 15-
3      Ventriloquism 15-
30      +3 Overall

[b]SKILLS Cost: 157[/b]

[b][u]Cost[/u]   [u]PERKS[/u][/b]
70      Follower
6      Money:  Wealthy

[b]PERKS Cost: 76[/b]

[b][u]Cost[/u]   [u]TALENTS[/u][/b]
3      Absolute Time Sense
18      Combat Luck (9 PD/9 ED)
10      Divine Favor
5      Eidetic Memory
18      Evasive
11      Inspire
3      Simulate Death
15      Skill Master (+3 with all Skills based on [characteristic])
4      Speed Reading (x10)

[b]TALENTS Cost: 87[/b]
[b][u]Value[/u]  [u]DISADVANTAGES[/u][/b]
10     Distinctive Features:  Aura of Divinity (Not Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By 

Uncommonly-Used Senses)
25     Hunted:  Thor 11- (Mo Pow, NCI, Harshly Punish)
15     Hunted:  The Frost Giants 8- (Mo Pow, Harshly Punish)
5     Hunted:  Las Vegas Police Department 8- (As Pow, Limited Geographical Area, Capture)
20     Psychological Limitation:  Hedonist; Devoted to enjoying Life (Very Common, Strong)
20     Psychological Limitation:  Protective of Mankind in Spite of Itself (Very Common, Strong)
15     Psychological Limitation:  Trickster: Cannot Resist Scamming a Dangerous target (Common, Strong)
15     Rivalry:  Professional and Romantic (The Other Gods of Asgard), Rival is More Powerful, Seek to Outdo, 

Embarrass, or Humiliate Rival, Rival Aware of Rivalry

[b]DISADVANTAGES Points: 125[/b]

Base Pts: 200
Exp Required: 380
Total Exp Available: 530
Exp Unspent: 150
Total Character Cost: 705

 

Background/History: Leon Oliver Kennedy-Isaac is a fioxture in the Las Vegas social scene; a professional gambler who does not need to cheat and has managed to avoid the wrath of casino security everywhere he went. But Leon is a front hiding the true identity; he is, in fact, the Norse God of Chaos himself, Loki. And he is on a mission on Earth -- to save the Human Race from his brothers. When Loki realized that Ragnarök would destroy his favorite toy, he turned against both the Gods and the Frost Giants and, as punishment, was exiled to Earth -- immortal, but with only a fraction of his power. There he has spent the last thousand years having a grand old time, seducing his minder the Valkyrie Brunhilde who abandoned her vows and became his bodyguard and lover, nourishing Man's creative spark wherever he could, and working behind the scenes to stop his brother Thor and the Frost Giants from writing the final chapter of the Universe.

 

Personality/Motivation: Quick-witted and humorous, Leon is about the most charming company imaginable. After all, this is a man who traded quips with Groucho, flew a kite with Ben Franklin, and gave John Lennon his first acid hit. The fact that he is at all protective of anyone besides himself is something that would take a great deal of effort to unmask, and that he would deny if confronted with.

 

Quotes: "I may not call thunderbolts from the sky or cause rivers to flow in the desert, but I have one thing nobody can ever take from me -- one more trick...." "Don't be absurd; I would be INSULTED if you were to trust me implicitly, because that would mean I'm off my game."

 

Powers/Tactics: Leon's quick wits, vast intelligence and ability to plan make him more than a match for the most powerful of adversaries. Although he still retains his Godly resistance to injury and pain, he will not wade into combat or start a fight. Trickery is his favorite weapon, and leading foes into elaborate and cunning ruses his

crowning achievement.

 

Campaign Notes: If you are going to use Leon in your campaign, realize you are turning traditional comic-book portrayals of the Norse Gods on their ear. He may well involve PC heroes in one of his schemes obliquely, so they don't realize he is using them to blunt the will of his brother.

[Gadodel]

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

An excellent example of unorthodoxy!

[David Blue]

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

Does the source of the character's power obligate that the character become a member of a religion appropriate to such? For example' date=' if your character had Apollo's bow or somesuch, would you feel that this should automatically make him worship the Olympian pantheon?[/quote']

Speaking for myself: decency and gratitude should obligate. Dieties may obligate. Power by itself has not yet obligated, though it may do so one day.

 

-

 

Chain Lightning has elemental magical powers that come with demon-slaying duties and a Confucian philosophy. The powers are not set to turn off if he ceased to slay demons or uphold traditional virtues. However, he chose to take seriously the implications of the fact that his powers worked for what the world is really about and what his duties are.

 

If Chain Lightning had no respect for tradition, learning, teachers, ancestors or duty, he would not have done that, and he would not have been a "superior man" and he would not have been fated to receive these gifts in the first place. This is obligation from general character, or decency.

 

In the movie Unbreakable (2000), David Dunn is obligated by his character. If his gifts are from a deity, and for all we know they are, they seem to be pure gifts, with no strings or hooks attached. (There is no indication that David Dunn will lose all his powers if he misses Sunday church or commits a sin such as an act of masturbation.) But they are gifts to someone who has to be a hero, who will always be sad unless he's doing the sorts of things it would take his gifts to accomplish.

 

-

 

I've played a variety of characters as supers and in fantasy who had divine gifts. They were or promptly became sincere worshipers of the relevant deity, because said deity had proved his, her or its generosity and goodness, effectiveness and interest. It was the right thing to do. This was obligation from gratitude, which also goes to decency and general character.

 

I would question the character of someone someone jogging around with something like a sword from Horus who didn't want to give thanks. I would also wonder at the goodness of a deity giving great powers to someone irredeemably, stone-hearted ungrateful. Isn't there anybody nice who could have used that power? Wouldn't it have been a more generous deed, for the sake of third parties, to have given the power to a better potential user?

 

There is not much support for this in the comics though, unless the power looks Jewish. Or possibly Christian. (Nowadays, Muslim might work too.) The Source, in Jack Kirby's comics, came with at least quasi-religious obligations. Other supernatural aid tended not to: it was just handy stuff to grab and use, like some item convenient to the hand of Conan the Barbarian.

 

I think if you are sticking to a strong New York Jewish feel for your comic book superheroes - and what could be more traditional? - this non-denominational Jewish or Abrahamic religious approach is a good way to go, or the best way to go.

 

-

 

The character of the gods is very different from one pantheon to another. There are jealous gods and generous gods. The former demand devotion, the latter do not. You have to follow the directions of the jealous ones, which are likely to include spurning the others. "Have to," as in: they'll make you sorry if you don't, and fear of the jealous god is the beginning of wisdom.

 

If you have two divine gifts, one from, say, generous and motherly Isis, given no strings attached, and one from an explicitly jealous god who demands that Isis not be worshiped, prudence says which way you have to go. This is an obligation from the (more demanding and jealous, less forgiving and generous) deity.

 

I hadn't thought about it before, but it also makes sense to back the jealous god even if they have done nothing for you or even if you have had a life of sorrow being faithful to them. If the reward of those who disobey the jealous god is hellfire, while Amon or Anubis just gave you a divine gift, no strings attached - the math is easy. Use the power, but worship and serve the one who holds you dangling above eternal flames, if you know what's good for you.

 

I've never played a character who accepted an obligation from the deity. (Or not in the long run and willingly: in a convention game or something like that, sure.)

 

But fear, or what comes to the same thing, fanatical love directed by an underlying fear of Hellfire or something like that, may be a perfectly valid motive, depending on the religion or the deity.

 

-

 

Obligation by power would be something like the obligation a Green Lantern has to recharge his or her ring. If Hal Jordan's favorite jingle was essential for the recharging to work, and if it was an explicit, religious prayer or an oath, that would be obligation by power. I have built characters that would have worked like that, but as luck would have it I have never played one.

 

I think this can work very well for a game, because wild costumes and grandiose speeches can be part of the deal.

 

This seems to be valid from comics too. I remember a fight where Moon Knight, servant of the god Khonsu, was taking on an enemy who had been favored by Anubis and was dressed to suit. The fight was in a temple that was going down, and the enemy found his "stupid" Anubis mask a hindrance amid the dust and falling rocks, so he tossed it - and was promptly smashed by a falling chunk of stone. Evidently whatever protection he had been getting had cut out. This could also be seen as an obligation from a god: do it my way, or SPLAT!

[Lucius]

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

You might find Stormwalker an interesting variation.

 

He was concieved during Beltane, when his mother was struck by a bolt of lightning as she leapt the bonfire.

 

Therefore, it is known that his father must be the Thunder God.

The question is, WHICH Thunder God?

 

Among other things, Stormwalker was a leading authority on Storm God religions and mythology, as he studied them all trying to figure out the question of his paternity.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

That was before the palindromedary's time....

[Victim]

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

The reason not to be grateful is if the character sees the bestowal of power as an investment, not a gift.

[David Blue]

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

The reason not to be grateful is if the character sees the bestowal of power as an investment' date=' not a gift.[/quote']

Do you mean like in Ghost Rider (2007)? I would agree with that, in this situation.

[Malleus]

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

That depends on the theologian. The Catholic Church' date=' AFAIK, has it as an official belief that many 'encounters' with pagan deities are actually misunderstood meetings with angels (I imagine pagans take a vice-versa approach to that). [/quote']

 

Here's the official position in the The Catechism of the Catholic Church

 

 

842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .

331

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life." 332

[FenrisUlf]

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

Malleus, thanks for the link and information.

[Mephron]

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

I have a vice-versa character - an archer who secretly worships Artemis.

 

It has to be secret - about fifteen years ago, beings claiming to be incarnations of Ares and Gaia went to war. causing massive damage to New York City and creating an island off the US Coast. That island, now called Druidia, is just far enough out to be in international waters and is its own nation, a nation which has been known to sponsor eco-terrorists. As a result of this, the modern paganism revival has taken an immense blow in the press and is looked down on, to the point that in that world, paganism can lose you your job.

 

(I pointed the fact of the Ares/Gaia battle and the Druidia sponsoring of eco-terrorists to the GM and he admitted that yes, that would be bad. As I'm the pagan in the group, I was actually screwing myself over more...)

 

So in that world, you might give thanks or worship, but you'd do it quietly and privately.

[ParagonAlpha]

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

I'd say it was a matter of player choice and character concept. I mean I think it would be a neat thing to have a person with say a very devote Christian background find Thor's hammer and have it work for him. Definitely makes him have to rethink (always good for character development.)

 

I've GM'd games where one of the players was an angel who had been cast out of heaven. The character had amnesia, but knew he had a higher purpose. One of the other players was a descendant of a human/demonic mating. It was interesting that the demonic character had more religious knowledge than the angel and was more devote than him as well.

 

Religious belief and worship for characters is and should be strictly based on concept, not GM command (unless of course there are campaign requirements or whatnot).

[Tech]

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

Have them be followers of the Liverwurst Sandwich!

[Lucius]

Re: 'Divine' Characters

 

It is entirely possible for a character who, for example, finds but does not understand a technological artifact, or is born with unusual but natural innate powers, to ascribe a Divine origin or nature to their powers, perhaps worshipping the object or assuming that one's powers depend upon fulfilling a certain moral code, ritual obligations, or appeasing a Higher Power.

 

Therefore it is also entirely possible for someone channeling an actual Higher Power to remain ignorant or disbelieving of that Power's true nature.

 

If, that is, one is willing to concede the possible existance of an Atheist Saint.

 

The Game Operations Director often moves in mysterious ways.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary believes in me. At one end.