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Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans


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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

Not really' date=' but Street Fighter was very much a game in the exact opposite direction of most White Wolf games, being nearly comedic at points.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I remember the Street Fighting team composed of Lovecraftian horrors -- including the female serpentine priestess of lost Lemuria, complete with the appropriately mammalian curves, who was supposed to get the hots for one of the PCs.

 

I mean, I thought she was sexy :doi: but the whole idea was a little silly.

 

(Hmm, considering what Lemurians are like in the Champions-verse, maybe I can re-write her as a supervillainess.)

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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

Yeah, I remember the Street Fighting team composed of Lovecraftian horrors -- including the female serpentine priestess of lost Lemuria, complete with the appropriately mammalian curves, who was supposed to get the hots for one of the PCs.

 

I mean, I thought she was sexy :doi: but the whole idea was a little silly.

 

I remember her! I have the book (Contenders) around here somewhere. It wasn't quite so bad, she wanted to restart her race and figured half human hybrids was better than nothing and was looking for powerful males to sire her brood thus particpating in the Street fighter circuit (along with chance to vent her anger on hapless opponents) I figured the whole different species thing was supposed to be hand waved or explained as "Lemurian Magic". I did a write up of the character in Hero at some point. I'll see if I can dig them up.

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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

It's White Wolf. Can you expect anything less than Totally Pretentious?

 

True, if the intent of the rant was to explain the game that the setting was intended for or had many more possibility aside from "comic book superheroes" there are so many better ways it could have been written.

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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

I remember her! I have the book (Contenders) around here somewhere. It wasn't quite so bad' date=' she wanted to restart her race and figured half human hybrids was better than nothing and was looking for powerful males to sire her brood thus particpating in the Street fighter circuit (along with chance to vent her anger on hapless opponents) I figured the whole different species thing was supposed to be hand waved or explained as "Lemurian Magic". I did a write up of the character in Hero at some point. I'll see if I can dig them up.[/quote']

 

She could easily exist in the Champs-verse as a rogue Lemurian throwback, and might be pretty powerful if Leviathan's stats are anything to go by.

 

And she might become amusing if she starts Hunting your character because she's decided that, inferior ape as he is, he's still the best source of DNA for a 'new' Lemurian species.

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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

She could easily exist in the Champs-verse as a rogue Lemurian throwback, and might be pretty powerful if Leviathan's stats are anything to go by.

 

And she might become amusing if she starts Hunting your character because she's decided that, inferior ape as he is, he's still the best source of DNA for a 'new' Lemurian species.

 

That was largely my plan for her (and to use the entire team as "mercenary" super villains that were secretly working on an apocalyptic agenda) but the unfortunately the game folded before I could bring them into play.

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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

I agree the views expressed here are very extreme. I think what they express leaves no room for compromise or growth on one side or another. I'm sure a super powered person or two might get in trouble for breaking a no-fly zone (to use the pertinent example) in the beginning but if the laws can't be rewritten to accomodate then the fault doesn't then lay with the super powered person in question, in my opinion.

 

In the end it comes down to common sense. Just cuz you CAN fly doesn't mean you SHOULD fly over airports or military bases, etc, that would lead the non-powered authorities (whom you're supposed to be assisting for the greater good) to take action against you. Just cuz you CAN levitate doesn't mean you SHOULD levitate in public, etc, where you might draw attention to yourself and cause a disturbance of the peace. Obviously if you're levitating for the greater good or you MUST on THIS exact spot right now or the world will end then that's different and can be sorted out later. I just hope that gravitationally challeneged super has enough clout that the authorities will take their word for it, or they have a clout-ridden friend to stick up for them.

 

Anyway I digress. I think there is room in comic stories for the human element. Hell Gotham PD is a great run of books and there hardly any supers in it at all. Everything has to be in moderation, though...including moderation. :)

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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

If you want to see how people in the real world would actually react to superhumans, just look at how we already react to extraordinary humans and extrapolate from there.

 

Some famous examples: Andre "the Giant" Rousimoff, Marilyn Vos Savant, Wolfgang Mozart, Albert Einstein, Bruce Lee.

 

In short, there will be detractors and opportunists wherever you go, but on the whole people of nearly every culture nowadays are very accepting of those with extraordinary abilities, focusing more on what is done with those abilities rather than what can be done.

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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

If you want to see how people in the real world would actually react to superhumans, just look at how we already react to extraordinary humans and extrapolate from there.

 

Some famous examples: Andre "the Giant" Rousimoff, Marilyn Vos Savant, Wolfgang Mozart, Albert Einstein, Bruce Lee.

 

In short, there will be detractors and opportunists wherever you go, but on the whole people of nearly every culture nowadays are very accepting of those with extraordinary abilities, focusing more on what is done with those abilities rather than what can be done.

 

I think it would depend on the kind of superhuman. Plastic Man's powers could not kill millions of people. Superman's could. We really lucked out that Supes was rescued by Ma and Pa Kent and so became improbably moral for a godlike being who cannot be injured and thus suffers no negative repercussions from his actions.

 

The thing is, some power sets are incredibly dangerous and so a government would be quite irresponsible not to try to control them. IMO.

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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

The problem is... how would they?

 

Let's look at the Superman angle. Yeah, Supes has to sleep. But unless you've come across Kryptonite, the current power-level Superman is largely impossible to control... even if he sleeps, when he wakes up he's going to invent new definitions of 'pain' for you.

 

And, moreover, as the response to registration and the "we fear you because you're powerful" reaction on these boards has shown, I think that even if you espoused the most caring, wonderful intentions when you tried to get Superman to turn in his Kryptonian muscles, you'd have resistance.

 

Especially from him.

 

So... what does the government do, assuming they don't have the kryptonite on hand to make him capitulate? Arrest Superman? That'll go over well with the future widows and orphans of the cops sent to do it....

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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

Point....

 

Though, I've often posited, in private, a special arrangement between the JL and Lex Luthor that requires only one chunk of kryptonite to exist.

 

Luthor puts kryptonite in something to menace Superman with.

The League takes it out of the room, letting Supes finish things off after they've actually had a chance to do something on their own.

Wayne Industries sells Luthor back the piece of kryptonite, so that they know there's actually a chance they'll get out of the station again in the future.

 

Lather, rinse, repeat. :D

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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

Superman's could. We really lucked out that Supes was rescued by Ma and Pa Kent and so became improbably moral for a godlike being who cannot be injured and thus suffers no negative repercussions from his actions.

 

 

I'm still mildly surprised we haven't seen an Elseworlds story in which baby Clark came down in the middle of Nazi Germany. Imagine what that story would be like!

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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

Point....

 

Though, I've often posited, in private, a special arrangement between the JL and Lex Luthor that requires only one chunk of kryptonite to exist.

 

Luthor puts kryptonite in something to menace Superman with.

The League takes it out of the room, letting Supes finish things off after they've actually had a chance to do something on their own.

Wayne Industries sells Luthor back the piece of kryptonite, so that they know there's actually a chance they'll get out of the station again in the future.

 

Lather, rinse, repeat. :D

 

The most fiendishly diabolical plan I've EVER read for dealing with Superman over the long term was in the novel SUPERFOLK. In that novel

Our hero, whose secret identity was David Brinkley, was basically Superman by another name. When the story begins he's been suffering an inexplicable decline in his power for many years until now he's little more than mortal. It turns out that his arch nemesis, a billionaire, had been quietly buying up manufacturing plants all over the world and everything they produced now had a tiny fragment of KRONKITE--our hero's one weakness--in them. Over the years and decades the low level of ubiquitous Kronkite radiation in the environment had had the effect of reducing our hero to his current status.

 

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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

Champions level supers just dont fit the mould of unstoppable, partly due to the inconsistant way damage and defence is described.

 

Standard super is 12d6 damage about 25def 15 res, fair. some movement usually enough to escape conventianal forces.

 

alot less than the military has access to even for handheld weapons.

 

Point being in the CU supers are not at the superman justice leage level of gods, more like marvel characters hell even Thor can be killed by hand held weaponry, hes just not ever actually hit with it.

 

My view of govs reaction to supers would agree with the poster that said what the first supers were like.

 

Also regarding Iron age, how wrong does your country gov need to be before you fight against it. Bare in mind America is a rebel country ( from england )

 

And almost all european countrys have been overthrown a dozen times in there history.

 

I also agree that some powers would justify total paranoia on the goverments part. example people like prof x, hmm i think the president should kill himself (and then does)

 

or even possibly worse cyberkinetics, crash all computers in the world because you can. thats a real weapon of mass destruction, no money no history no job, 3days to wordwide barbarism.

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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

other problematic powers:

teleportation wreaks havoc with security everywhere

ditto for n-ray senses and privacy

shapeshift would permit an unscrupulous business-man to engage in all manner of blackmail and other shenanigans--would a celebrity doppelganger who clearly identified themselves as not being the actual celebrity be able to, say, make a "sex tape" for profit?

Hyper-charismatic individuals would either pass under the world's radar, or be suspected of being superhuman by everyone. A hyper-telegenic superhuman might get elected president in a landslide before being found out.

obviously, unless super-technology emerges rapidly at the same time as superpowers, restraint and detention of some supers might be nigh-impossible.

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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

Re: Plastic Man, actually, he pretty much could kill millions of people. . .

 

( can you say "giant shapeshifting mass of sharp pointy death flowing over a city"? )

 

As for Nazi Superman, closest I can think if Red Sun, though in JSA: Liberty Files, the Martian Manhunter is brought to Earth by Hitler, and is at first deceived/indoctrinated to be the Nazi superweapon.

 

( he only had mental contact with Hitler at first, whose own view of the world was so strongly skewed that the partially-amnesiac J'onn couldn't see through its falsity/perversion. Not until Batman made mental contact, and gave him a conflicting viewpoint. At which, cue the end of the war, as J'onn didn't like the Nazis anymore :) )

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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

I think realistic includes the fact that the public is frequently divided over major issues. There will be many points of view on metahumans. It wouldn't be universal agreement. There might be a general tone, but there will be groups and individuals who go against it. I think the question isn't what kinds of stories a particuliar view allows you to tell, but whether or not the situation is robust enough to tell diffierent kinds of stories. There is also a tendency to take one narrow view to an extreme as a "default assumption," or to assume absolute effectiveness on the part of governments or various organizations involved with metas. That's not the case in the real world when dealing with real issues, either. Its also good to remember that setting a monolithic tone forges the feel of the campaign and straightjackets you - and a good chunk of that is dependent on how metahumans emerged. The more diverse the public reaction, the more diverse political factions in the government, the more media sources, the better (IMO).

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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

Since this thread made its original rounds, I've seen a few articles online about "Reals" -- people who go out in real life, dressed as superheroes, and help people. Some of them have the intent of literally fighting crime, while others do simpler things like help motorists in distress, visit sick children in hospitals, make public appearances, and things like that.

 

The general attitude from the public seems to be: "These people are nuts, but they're really nice nuts, and they're ours, and for the most part we're glad to have them around." As Von D-Man suggests, actual opinions vary, but this is the general average from what I've seen.

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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

Since this thread made its original rounds, I've seen a few articles online about "Reals" -- people who go out in real life, dressed as superheroes, and help people. Some of them have the intent of literally fighting crime, while others do simpler things like help motorists in distress, visit sick children in hospitals, make public appearances, and things like that.

 

The general attitude from the public seems to be: "These people are nuts, but they're really nice nuts, and they're ours, and for the most part we're glad to have them around." As Von D-Man suggests, actual opinions vary, but this is the general average from what I've seen.

 

I agree, those people are at least cool kooks (though the ones who want to go fighting crime had better have some good medical insurance).

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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

A bit of necromancy but I ran across this thread on rpg.net and I thought it was both surprising and relevant. I honestly expected the answers there to be much more cynical.

 

Why be Heroic?

 

Thanks for posting the link. I really liked this one comment:

 

In my experience, it's usually someone with an inclination to amorality trying to make themselves feel better about it by saying that everyone is amoral and they (the speaker) just care less about what other people say. So instead of feeling like they're in the wrong, they can feel like the rebel, and we all know how people love rebels.

 

It's kind of the same thing that leads people to say that all moral behavior is born of self-interest, and so all behavior is selfish. It might be technically true (not participating in that argument today myself), but it fundamentally misses the point of differentiating between selfishness and altruism and generally does so for the sole purpose of letting you say "but you're selfish too, so there! At least I'm honest about it!"

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Re: Realism vs cynicism The world's reactions to superhumans

 

A bit of necromancy but I ran across this thread on rpg.net and I thought it was both surprising and relevant. I honestly expected the answers there to be much more cynical.

 

Why be Heroic?

An interresting thread.

 

I personally go with the theory that what kind of person you are as a norm has at least some bearing on what you become as a super. IOW, a genuinely good and decent person is going to at least try to do what's right with their newly-acquired powers (whether they're successful in such will vary depending on any number of factors). On the same token, someone who was a douchebag before getting "Suped" will likely just become more of what they already were.

 

But here's the rub: most of the time who does and doesn't get superpowers is something of a cosmic crapshoot, and when you realistically assess the decent people vs. douchebags ratio in the world, it's a safe bet any true heroes that emerge from the lot are going to have their work cut out for them big time.

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