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More comfortable in fire than out


DataPacRat

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Coming back to HERO after an absence, the PC I've just proposed to my GM is a fairly standard 'demon done good' archetype. Full life support, general toughness, bat wings, Distinctive Features, calling up hellfire, and so on.

 

I'm having trouble figuring out one aspect of the build. This PC is described as being "more comfortable sitting in a fireplace than in front of it". Damage Reduction, limited to flames, seems the best starting point... but 75% resistant reduction still leaves 25% of the damage to deal with. I suppose I could simply add more ED, but that doesn't seem quite right - the fire he's standing in would still be 'attacking' the PC, and that would make it easier for any real attackers to penetrate the Armor.

 

Am I going about this the wrong way? Should I be looking at, say, an adjustment power like Absorption? (Also, my main rulebook is Fifth Unrevised, so if there's anything useful that's come up since then, it would be nice to know...)

 

 

Other than that, does anyone have any demon / devil / fallen-angel / etc writeups handy I might be able to use for further inspiration?

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Re: More comfortable in fire than out

 

In the Fantasy Hero Book there is a discussion about absolute effects (page 251 if you have the FH book). In other words what is the best way to model the certain death attack or the completely invulnerable defense. Of course the Hero System abhors such things as absolutes, but this is how Fantasy Hero handled it.

 

Total Invunlnerability/Immunity to a specific attack form:

  1. a Force Wall, Hardened, with enough DEF to resist the highest BODY damage roll that type of damage could, given an average attack, achieve in the campaign.
  2. Damage Reduction, Resistant, 75% plus Armor, Hardened (30 DEF) (or, alternately, the same Active Points worth of just Hardened Armor).

 

You could reduce this cost some by specifying the defenses work only vs Fire & Heat (-1/2) since these are such common attack forms. Of course if you already have defenses you just need to add on top of them the portion with this limitation.

 

Another option might be to buy Desolidification only vs. Heat & Fire (-1/2). But if you do that you will need a (+2) Advantage for anything that is still going to be able to affect the real world while you are desolid.

 

There just isn't a really cheap way to make yourself immune to things. Especially common things like heat and fire.

 

EDIT: Note to self: Must learn to type faster so ghost-angel doesn't keep beating me to the punch.

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Re: More comfortable in fire than out

 

At the risk of drawing unwanted and unasked for criticism from detractors, here are a few "elemental" characters that might provide some inspiration / parallels for you

 

 

WARG is basically a "chemical elemental" sort of character. He is better off in toxic sludge than out of it; you might be able to draw some parallels.

 

Meltdown is basically a "radiation" elemental.

 

Furnace is a "heat elemental" type character.

 

Firestar is a conversion of a Marvel character and is bascially a "microwave" elemental.

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Re: More comfortable in fire than out

 

75 WPM? Slacker. Call me when you hit 90. Where's my hat?

 

Yeah, what they said. If you have 75 DR, shouldn't the rest of your ED carry the rest? Fire isn't Killing Damage, it's Normal damage, IIRC. That means that your shiny ED should handle it. And, failing that, purchase Armor (rED, only v. Fire -1 1/2) and be done. No need to go all whacky.

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Re: More comfortable in fire than out

 

Is the demon supposed to actually be invulnerable to fire, no matter how hot or from what source? Or is it just unaffected by ambient temperatures hot enough to cause normal people pain, like the average fireplace from your example, but not hot enough to melt metal or the like? If it's the former, all the suggestions earlier on this thread are mechanically valid. If the latter, I'd ask your GM if you can just give the demon Life Support, Safe Environment: Intense Heat, and allow it to apply to all such mundane situations.

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Re: More comfortable in fire than out

 

I'm having trouble figuring out one aspect of the build. This PC is described as being "more comfortable sitting in a fireplace than in front of it". Damage Reduction, limited to flames, seems the best starting point... but 75% resistant reduction still leaves 25% of the damage to deal with. I suppose I could simply add more ED, but that doesn't seem quite right - the fire he's standing in would still be 'attacking' the PC, and that would make it easier for any real attackers to penetrate the Armor.

 

Unless the real attackers are coordinating their attacks with the fire, each attack is handled completely seperately. Being in a fire (and shrugging it off) won't make the character any more vulnerable to other attacks.

 

 

Am I going about this the wrong way? Should I be looking at, say, an adjustment power like Absorption? (Also, my main rulebook is Fifth Unrevised, so if there's anything useful that's come up since then, it would be nice to know...)

 

Absorbtion normally doesn't provide any defense. It might be a way to simulate the character being more comfortable in the fire than out, though. Say a small absorbtion feeding Recovery. This assumes that you want some concrete effect that makes the character 'more comfortable' in fire than not. You don't really need to have this. Once he's immune to the damage, you could just play him as more comfortable in fire.

 

 

 

Mechanically, open ended immunity to damage, even of just one special effect, is done in HERO via Desolidification, unless your GM house rules in something like 100% Damage Reduction, or that 'X' defense counts as immunity, and forget the dice.

 

The most book legal way would be, as has been mentioned, Desolidification limited to Fire/Heat damage, with all the characters other powers bought 'usable on solid world'. But that's prohibitively expensive for what is not an esoteric idea when it comes to superheros.

 

I'd talk to my GM and get him to waive the technical necessity of buying the rest of the powers usable on solid world.

 

 

 

PS : All this assumes that you want some mechanical expression of the character being more comfortable in fire, rather than just making him immune to its effects.

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Re: More comfortable in fire than out

 

Thanks for all the advice. I'm going to propose the Desolid version, and ask for GM's permission to skip having to buy 'affects solid' for everything else.

 

 

(Now, all I have to do is figure out if "Does not affect true innocents or people possessing True Faith in their religion" is worth more than a -0 Limit on his Fire EC... or if there's a decent Limitation to describe 'His fire-based Damage shield occasionally accidentally activates when his emotions run high'...)

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Re: More comfortable in fire than out

 

 

(Now, all I have to do is figure out if "Does not affect true innocents or people possessing True Faith in their religion" is worth more than a -0 Limit on his Fire EC... or if there's a decent Limitation to describe 'His fire-based Damage shield occasionally accidentally activates when his emotions run high'...)

 

Doe speople with True Faith include religious fanatics and/or devil worshippers? If so I would make it -1/4. DEMON will kick his ass.

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Re: More comfortable in fire than out

 

75 WPM? Slacker. Call me when you hit 90. Where's my hat?

 

Yeah, what they said. If you have 75 DR, shouldn't the rest of your ED carry the rest? Fire isn't Killing Damage, it's Normal damage, IIRC. That means that your shiny ED should handle it. And, failing that, purchase Armor (rED, only v. Fire -1 1/2) and be done. No need to go all whacky.

 

Pretty sure it is killing damage. That means even 1d6 can do up to 30 stun :) You are not going to be 'comfortable' there; even with 3/4 DR you need 28 ed, 4 of which has to be resistant to avoid feeling it completely.

 

If it is just normal fire, I'd go with LS: Heat, probably.

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Re: More comfortable in fire than out

 

Does people with True Faith include religious fanatics and/or devil worshippers? If so I would make it -1/4. DEMON will kick his ass.

 

It's kind of a DC's "Vertigo" style of thing. Dealing with where souls go in a game is always something of a touchy subject, of course, but one way to describe this bit would be "the afterlife coming to call early". If the mortal is, at present, truly destined for a pleasant afterlife, do not pass purgatory, then there's nothing in them for these hell-flames to actually catch hold of and burn. (The flames may have certain side-effects, such as incinerating their clothes or setting a forest ablaze, but the mortal wouldn't actually be damaged by the hell-flames themselves.)

 

If these devil-worshipers' worshiped devil has promised (and is able to fulfill that promise) of sending them to an afterlife of debauchery instead of torment, and the worshipers are fulfilling their end of the compact, then I expect they'd be as immune as any saint.

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Re: More comfortable in fire than out

 

Pretty sure it is killing damage. That means even 1d6 can do up to 30 stun :) You are not going to be 'comfortable' there; even with 3/4 DR you need 28 ed, 4 of which has to be resistant to avoid feeling it completely.

 

If it is just normal fire, I'd go with LS: Heat, probably.

 

Then I may be unclear what we're talking about; that, or I'm mixing my games again. :ugly: But if he already has 75 DR, and he takes ... 7 BODY and 21 STUN from the fire, at 75 that goes down to 1 BODY and 4 STUN, and you're saying his normal ED won't soak it?

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Re: More comfortable in fire than out

 

HERO applies ED first, then applies the Damage Reduction.

 

If a character had 10rED, 10 more non resistant ED on top of that, and 3/4 Damage Reduction, then the following attacks would have the follwing effects (1/2 or less rounds down):

 

Damage___________ED Apllied_________DR Applied

_7 BODY, 28 STUN = 0 BODY, _8 STUN = 0 BODY, 2 STUN

12 BODY, 36 STUN = 2 BODY, 16 STUN = 0 BODY, 4 STUN

17 BODY, 63 STUN = 7 BODY, 43 STUN = 2 BODY, 11 STUN

 

So as you see, since ED is applied first, damage reduction isnt really the way to go if you want to simulate immunity.

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Re: More comfortable in fire than out

 

HERO applies ED first, then applies the Damage Reduction.

 

If a character had 10rED, 10 more non resistant ED on top of that, and 3/4 Damage Reduction, then the following attacks would have the follwing effects (1/2 or less rounds down):

 

Damage___________ED Apllied_________DR Applied

_7 BODY, 28 STUN = 0 BODY, _8 STUN = 0 BODY, 2 STUN

12 BODY, 36 STUN = 2 BODY, 16 STUN = 0 BODY, 4 STUN

17 BODY, 63 STUN = 7 BODY, 43 STUN = 2 BODY, 11 STUN

 

So as you see, since ED is applied first, damage reduction isnt really the way to go if you want to simulate immunity.

 

I'll rep you once I reload (all outta ammo). So then... why not just buy Armor (rED, only vs. fiery doom, -1 1/2)? Or am I missing something else?

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Re: More comfortable in fire than out

 

I'll rep you once I reload (all outta ammo). So then... why not just buy Armor (rED' date=' only vs. fiery doom, -1 1/2)? Or am I missing something else?[/quote']

 

Because the Fires Of Hell, which is what this ability is supposed to be able to withstand, are somewhere around, oh, let's say 66d6 Killing, which needs a /lot/ of Armor. (I'm just guessing on that number - it may, in fact, be 666d6; or merely whatever the environmental conditions at the centre of the Earth are.) Mere Earthly flames are a trifle in comparison, about as dangerous as the local air.

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Re: More comfortable in fire than out

 

Because the Fires Of Hell' date=' which is what this ability is supposed to be able to withstand, are somewhere around, oh, let's say 66d6 Killing, which needs a /lot/ of Armor. (I'm just guessing on that number - it may, in fact, be 666d6; or merely whatever the environmental conditions at the centre of the Earth are.) Mere Earthly flames are a trifle in comparison, about as dangerous as the local air.[/quote']

 

Or the Fires of Hell have a limitation "Doesn't affect Hellborn Creatures" ;)

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Re: More comfortable in fire than out

 

Or the Fires of Hell have a limitation "Doesn't affect Hellborn Creatures" ;)

 

File this as the only time I might not roll my eyes. Sean used to pull this all the time, and I've never agreed with it, but in this ONE CASE it might be accurate. Doubtful. But more possible than the other times I've seen it. :nonp:

 

666d6 needs desolid. Only versus HellFire and Associated Special Effects, Always On, 0 END, and there's a thing in Desolid that specifies you aren't actually 'desolid,' not unlike the "must pass through intervening space" lim on Teleport.

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Re: More comfortable in fire than out

 

File this as the only time I might not roll my eyes. Sean used to pull this all the time, and I've never agreed with it, but in this ONE CASE it might be accurate. Doubtful. But more possible than the other times I've seen it. :nonp:

 

Actually, I was only partially joking. I wouldn't charge the creatures native to a certain region points to survive in their home. They'd have to pay points to be immune to ALL fire but not the for the fires of Hell. It's magic so it doesn't have to make sense and there are portrayals of demons that are just resistant to natural fire to varying degrees while not being immune. I wouldn't charge naturally aquatic creatures to breathe water but they'd have to pay points to breath air and water, etc particularly if the campaign was rarely or never going to leave the water.

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Re: More comfortable in fire than out

 

666d6 needs desolid. Only versus HellFire and Associated Special Effects, Always On, 0 END, and there's a thing in Desolid that specifies you aren't actually 'desolid,' not unlike the "must pass through intervening space" lim on Teleport.

 

"Baptized in the Fires of Hell"

 

Desolidification

0 endurance

Persistent

Inherent

Only vs "The Fires of Hell"

Cannot Pass through Solid Matter/Not actually desolid (This could be partially advantageous because, in the rare instance Hellfire was used to attack someone else, the character could possibly interpose their body to block the attack)

 

To be "Book legal" the character would also have to buy Affects Real World on their strength and effects mean to harm others.

 

I'd find it simpler to say define Hellfire as not effecting Hellborn as a standard features of the "Energy Type" (similar to the suggestions in the Ultimate Energy Projector). If the The Fires of Hell are truly a 666d6 KA then the character isn't taking the other PCs on any tours of their home town or anything and Hellfire (in most of my campaigns) wouldn't be a common attack type and most of the types that would use it would know it doesn't effect Hellborn so wouldn't bother.

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