FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

[Vestnik]

Can somebody tell me why one would get one over the other? What's the difference, really?

[Diamond Spear]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Cost and special effect mostly. Also once you pass a certain point with megascale the speed will be greater that the speed of light so it would make senase to switch to FTL.

 

Edit: Or put another way megascale should be used to model anything sublight and FTL should be used for anything over the speed of light.

[Bygoneyrs]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

FTL is Faster the Light movement and depending on what SciFi reference show you

are looking at, it does have differences.

 

Star Trek FTL is Warp Speed or Trans Warp...but then they also have used others too

 

Star Wars uses a kinda Warp speed as well

 

Battlestar Galatica FTL uses a kind of Jump into hyper-space, as well as does Traveller

as well as SG-1/SGA

 

B5 uses a Jump Gate system

 

Fold is something completely different but that was used by Robotech series..

 

I will leave "Megascale Movement" to someone else...

 

Penn

[Thia Halmades]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

MegaScale is exactly that -- it translates the size of your hex (1") to a new size per the level at which you buy it, for example, 1" = 1km. So if you would normally run at 6"/phase, if you megascale that, you'd run at 6km/phase (and of course it comes in all kinds of levels, etc.).

 

MegaScale means you're still doing math trying to figure how much MegaScale on what type of movement (i.e., flight) until you hit light speed, and it gets prohibitively expensive, not to mention the ridiculous math required. Which is why I use a spread sheet for all my speed calculations to MPH, makes it much simpler. ANYWAY.

 

FTL is a power built specifically to cover this, usually in LY/Time; my UNSC Frigates move at 2 LY/wk, I think, and that's the same speed echoed by the text and HALOpedia. As you buy up FTL, you can fine tune it until you hit the speed you want. Don't forget, also, that the numbers are not "hard & fast." Until you hit the break point, you can read any entry as X LY/time to Y LY/time, until you hit a break of the next level, Z LY/time, at which point you need to pay for that level.

 

Much like charges, which is laid out exactly the same way; you pay for 13-22, or somesuch (IDHMBIFOM) but that 'range' allows you to buy a clip of say, 16 rounds, even though the base is 13. But if you wanted 23 rounds, you'd purchase the next clip size up.

 

Make sense?

[Vestnik]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Cost and special effect mostly. Also once you pass a certain point with megascale the speed will be greater that the speed of light so it would make senase to switch to FTL.

 

Edit: Or put another way megascale should be used to model anything sublight and FTL should be used for anything over the speed of light.

 

Hop Across the Galaxies Belt: 1" Teleport, Megascale (1" = 1,000,000,000,000,000"; Can Be Scaled; +5) (12 Active Points) OIF (1/2) (Real Cost = 8 Points)

 

[Thia Halmades]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Hop Across the Galaxies Belt: 1" Teleport, Megascale (1" = 1,000,000,000,000,000"; Can Be Scaled; +5) (12 Active Points) OIF (1/2) (Real Cost = 8 Points)

 

 

Uh-huh. That'll go on the list of "No, no you can't do that." Sure, it's legal, but "Can be Scaled" specifically says "Within reason," i.e., you probably can't shrink it down to anything other than 'halfway across the universe.'

[Vestnik]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Uh-huh. That'll go on the list of "No' date=' no you can't do that." Sure, it's legal, but "Can be Scaled" specifically says "Within reason," [i']i.e., [/i]you probably can't shrink it down to anything other than 'halfway across the universe.'

 

Fascist!

 

[Thia Halmades]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Fascist!

 

 

I prefer "Pragmatic, rules-conscious governor of obvious logical pitfalls," thank you. And I'll continue to refer to you by your proper title, "Fuel Transfer Technician."

 

[Vestnik]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Thia Halmades is oppressing me.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Just one of the many services we offer here on behalf of the HERO Board Lords.

 

The views and opinions expressed here are only the views of the writer, and do reflect the views of any owner, member, or employee of DOJ, d/b/a Hero Games, the other posters, some guy in China who has no idea what I'm talking about, or frankly anyone other than THE Lord Captain Thia Halmades. We now return you to your regularly scheduled ice cream social.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Short version:

 

FTL is cheapest.

 

MegaScale flight can be used in atmosphere.

 

MegaScale Teleportation cannot be intercepted.

 

Other than that you should base your decision based on Special Effects.

[Comic]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Uh.. Erm. Difference?

 

Oh. Yeah. The difference is there are so many fewer obviously abusive builds involving FTL than Megascale?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

The difference being, "One was designed to do this" and "one wasn't." I'm not saying you CAN'T, this is HERO, obviously you can build it however you like, that works for your game, normal caveats and such like apply. But I also prefer a "hard" modeling system; if you want to travel Faster Than Light, then I would make you (yes, YOU, Comic) buy FTL. Anyone else can get away with murder.

[Vestnik]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

OK, forgive me if I'm being obtuse (which is possible), but I guess here is my real issue:

 

Logically it seems FTL could be folded into Megascale Movement (with the Disadvantage Not in an Atmosphere). I'm curious why it hasn't been. (As Regeneration was folded into another power.)

[Thia Halmades]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

OK, forgive me if I'm being obtuse (which is possible), but I guess here is my real issue:

 

Logically it seems FTL could be folded into Megascale Movement (with the Disadvantage Not in an Atmosphere). I'm curious why it hasn't been. (As Regeneration was folded into another power.)

 

In a word? Scale & definition. FTL is cheap, like most movement powers. While I'm sure some math could be done to cover it, Megascale isn't necessarily intended to represent FTL travel; it's much easier to represent people who move really fast, or jets moving at Mach speeds without buying some ri-gorram-diculous amount of Flight. FTL is one of those instances in HERO where the Power and Effect are functionally identical; an RKA can be all sorts of things; not much else comes to mind when you think 'FTL.' I think it works as a power and it's balanced; doesn't bother me. I think folding it into MegaScale would just be damn confusing, to be honest.

[Maur]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Star Wars uses a kinda Warp speed as well

 

as well as SG-1/SGA

B5 uses a Jump Gate system

 

These all use Hyperspace. SG-1/SGA just doesn't show them going through the tunnel between gates anymore. SG-1/SGA and SW use Hyperdrives to transition to FTL movement. B5 uses Jump gates or Jump engines depending on the ship classification.

[caris]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

OK, forgive me if I'm being obtuse (which is possible), but I guess here is my real issue:

 

Logically it seems FTL could be folded into Megascale Movement (with the Disadvantage Not in an Atmosphere). I'm curious why it hasn't been. (As Regeneration was folded into another power.)

 

And we all know how well that has gone over with a certain section of the fan base. (Well, OK, just me, and I don't know if I've actually ever posted a rant about it...)

 

Oh, where was I? Yes, FTL vs. MegaScale movement. Why did FTL just not get removed and rolled up? It is extremely unlikely you will ever get a definitive answer, because I'm pretty sure the one person that truely knows (Mr. Long) probably won't discuss his reasoning. (I can't blame him. The moment he starts, he runs the risk of having people trying to bog him down in arguements over those decisions.)

 

My personal speculation is that the benefits/hassles ratio of keeping things simple by having them separate outweighed the benefits/hassles ratio of merging them.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

And we all know how well that has gone over with a certain section of the fan base. (Well, OK, just me, and I don't know if I've actually ever posted a rant about it...)

 

Oh, where was I? Yes, FTL vs. MegaScale movement. Why did FTL just not get removed and rolled up? It is extremely unlikely you will ever get a definitive answer, because I'm pretty sure the one person that truely knows (Mr. Long) probably won't discuss his reasoning. (I can't blame him. The moment he starts, he runs the risk of having people trying to bog him down in arguements over those decisions.)

 

My personal speculation is that the benefits/hassles ratio of keeping things simple by having them separate outweighed the benefits/hassles ratio of merging them.

 

Q: Steve, why did you do this?

A: I don't discuss philosophy/design questions.

Q: But...

A: No. Just... no.

[Bygoneyrs]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

I much perfer Robotech Fold engines better myself!

 

Penn

[Thia Halmades]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Feh. Doesn't hold a candle to my Slip-Space drive build.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

And we all know how well that has gone over with a certain section of the fan base. (Well' date=' OK, just me, and I don't know if I've actually ever posted a rant about it...)[/quote']

 

No, you're very far from alone on that, and several folks have posted a rant here on it, including me. (Well, maybe more of a peeve; I rarely have the bile in me for a proper rant.)

 

Why wasn't FTL Travel folded into MegaScale? IMO it's partly because FTL has been around since at least Second Edition Champions. Lots of things in HERO could be folded into other things. Heck, I've seen half-serious recommendations to fold all the Attack Powers into Transform; after all it can be defined as doing anything you want to the target. But each of these Powers has its own distinctive flavor and style, which is another reason why there's still such a variety of them. Which one you choose will affect the "feel" of the resulting character.

 

FTL Travel is the cleanest, simplest choice for, well, FTL travel. Unlike MegaScale there's no base or maximum distance to calculate, no Endurance cost to factor in, no consideration of perceiving where you want to go (which is another issue with your Teleport example, Vestnik). Just choose your speed, and off you go.

[Vestnik]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Heck' date=' I've seen half-serious recommendations to fold all the Attack Powers into Transform; after all it can be defined as doing anything you want to the target. [/quote']

 

I was thinking about this, and I think at the system's basic, must "metaphysical" level, all characteristic and powers in hero can be divided into either stuff per se, stuff that changes other stuff, or stuff that resists being changed by other stuff.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

I was thinking about this' date=' and I think at the system's basic, must "metaphysical" level, all characteristic and powers in hero can be divided into either stuff per se, stuff that changes other stuff, or stuff that resists being changed by other stuff.[/quote']

 

Argh... I hate conversations like this. Not because I think you're necessarily wrong, but because the system functions based on its verisimilitude, and things that threaten that cheese me right off. I need a system that is MORE detailed, not less. Like the d20 argument we used to have, when a bunch of skills got folded into other skills. We're convinced that in 4th Ed the skill list will be:

 

Talking Skills.

Hunting Skills.

All Other Skills.

 

[Tonio]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

I was thinking about this' date=' and I think at the system's basic, must "metaphysical" level, all characteristic and powers in hero can be divided into either stuff per se, stuff that changes other stuff, or stuff that resists being changed by other stuff.[/quote']

 

Please check out this character I just wrote up, and comment, critique, whatever:

 

Name: Deleth

Alternate ID: Joe Douglass

 

Stats, Powers, Skills, Talents, Perks, Disadvantages

Stuff

 

 

[Vestnik]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Please check out this character I just wrote up, and comment, critique, whatever:

 

Name: Deleth

Alternate ID: Joe Douglass

 

Stats, Powers, Skills, Talents, Perks, Disadvantages

 

Stuff

 

 

 

Dude, that is an awesome VPP!

 

Hey you could do that, couldn't you? Build a character who is a giant VPP and nothing else. All the characteristics and skills would come from the VPP.