FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

[Lord Liaden]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

To get back to the original ...

 

The difference, in part, is that one can go into a power framework and the other can't. I'm currently contemplating a character in a high-level Champions campaign who COULD conceivably achieve faster-than-light travel -- but who has all their Powers wrapped up into a VPP. Though the FTL (and other stuff, like Armor) logically could fit into the VPP, rules-wise they aren't allowed -- so I have to find other methods. I've already paid for the 60 AP VPP; why should I start paying for the FTL?

 

Actually, the only Powers that aren't allowed in any Framework (without GM permission) are Special Powers. FTL Travel as a Movement Power would be quite allowable within a Multipower or VPP, although not within an Elemental Control since FTL doesn't cost END to use as a default. (You could always buy FTL with Costs Endurance to fit it into an EC, though.)

 

FWIW I've seen a few published 5E characters who have FTL Travel as a slot within a Multipower.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Well, hell, sign me up ...

[Vanguard]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

 

Let me ask what I consider a better question. Armor, PD, ED, Damage Resistance and Force Field have all been around since the first edition. Why do we have separate powers for these? Armor is just PD and ED with Damage Resistance. Force Field just adds "Costs END" to the PD, ED and Damage Resistance.

 

Except that Damage Resistance doesn't add to your total defenses where as Force Field and Armor do. So there is a fundamental difference in the way the powers work. Could Force Field and Armor be the same thing? You betcha. But I don't think they could all be considered "variables" of Damage Resistance for the above reason that I mention.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Except that Damage Resistance doesn't add to your total defenses where as Force Field and Armor do. So there is a fundamental difference in the way the powers work. Could Force Field and Armor be the same thing? You betcha. But I don't think they could all be considered "variables" of Damage Resistance for the above reason that I mention.

 

1 PD + 1 ED + Damage Resistance on both costs 3 points.

 

1 PD Armor and 1 ED Armor costs 3 points.

 

They're the same thing.

[Vanguard]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

1 PD + 1 ED + Damage Resistance on both costs 3 points.

 

1 PD Armor and 1 ED Armor costs 3 points.

 

They're the same thing.

 

Yes. The cost is the same thing but they do slightly different things.

 

I can buy 1 PD/ED Armor and get to add that to my 3 PD/ED to have 7 pnts of PD/ED to subtract from an attack.

 

Or, I can buy 1 point of PD/ED Resistant and still only have 3 PD/ED to subtract from an attack.

 

That's what I meant.

[Cancer]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

I would probably descend rapidly into game-world features and sfx considerations if I had to distinguish between FTL movement and adequately-Megascaled movement.

 

In principle (that is, outside the game), FTL wouldn't have to be limited to megascale-class distances. I recognize I'm imposing a view of game-world physics onto my thoughts here, but I can think of interesting tricks to pull with FTL movement even on an "ordinary" distance scale (e.g., you can outrun any electromagnetic or gravitic signal/weapon/effect) while still traversing the intervening distance.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

I would probably descend rapidly into game-world features and sfx considerations if I had to distinguish between FTL movement and adequately-Megascaled movement.

 

In principle (that is, outside the game), FTL wouldn't have to be limited to megascale-class distances. I recognize I'm imposing a view of game-world physics onto my thoughts here, but I can think of interesting tricks to pull with FTL movement even on an "ordinary" distance scale (e.g., you can outrun any electromagnetic or gravitic signal/weapon/effect) while still traversing the intervening distance.

 

That seems odd considering that even 1 second at the speed of light (not faster) is enough to circle the earth more than once.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

That seems odd considering that even 1 second at the speed of light (not faster) is enough to circle the earth more than once.

 

Just about seven times (perhaps a fraction more -- I did the math once).

[Vanguard]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Sorry for the thread Derail.

 

I think that while you might be able to get the same effect speed/movement wise from lots of Megascale movement, FTL is a cleaner way of doing it. Might not be a cheaper way to do it but, IMO, I think it is a cleaner way of doing it.

[Comic]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

A friend who worked for a phone company routed his voice around the world, sometimes repeated.

 

Took a lot more than 1/7th of a second, because of switching delays and so forth.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

A friend who worked for a phone company routed his voice around the world, sometimes repeated.

 

Took a lot more than 1/7th of a second, because of switching delays and so forth.

 

Electricity flows through wire at something less than the speed of light. Heck, light itself travels more slowly through air (or any other transparent medium) than it does through the vacuum of space.

[Hugh Neilson]

Yes. The cost is the same thing but they do slightly different things.

 

I can buy 1 PD/ED Armor and get to add that to my 3 PD/ED to have 7 pnts of PD/ED to subtract from an attack.

 

Or, I can buy 1 point of PD/ED Resistant and still only have 3 PD/ED to subtract from an attack.

 

That's what I meant.

 

I can buy +1 PD and +1 ED, Resistant and get to add that to my 3 PD/ED to have 4 pnts of PD/ED to subtract from an attack. [Neither of us gets 7 points.]

 

Or, I can buy just Damage Resistance for 1 point of PD/ED and still only have 3 PD/ED to subtract from an attack.

 

Armor is just PD or ED bundled with damage resistance. That's all it is. Take away the Armor power, and you can still buy as much PD or ED as you want, and make as much of it resistant as you want. Want a suit of Chain Mail? +5PD, +5 ED, Resistant, OIF Suit of Chain Mail. The armor power is not needed - it's just a purchase of PD and/or ED coupled with damage resistance.

 

Show me a single example of Armor in play which could not be replaced with PD, ED and Damage Resistance.

[SteveZilla]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Hop Across the Galaxies Belt: 1" Teleport, Megascale (1" = 1,000,000,000,000,000"; Can Be Scaled; +5) (12 Active Points) OIF (1/2) (Real Cost = 8 Points)

 

 

This is why there is still talk about Minimum Expenditures for various Powers, mind you. It's the same category as a 1 pip RKA with a total of +11 in Advantages (like AP, PEN, NRM, IMR, ISM, AFx20, ZE, and AoE) that when disallowed, some rollplayer* somewhere will complain by saying "But it's only a 60 Point Power!"

 

*Yes, I spelled that correctly.

[SteveZilla]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

No, you're very far from alone on that, and several folks have posted a rant here on it, including me. (Well, maybe more of a peeve; I rarely have the bile in me for a proper rant.)

 

Why wasn't FTL Travel folded into MegaScale? IMO it's partly because FTL has been around since at least Second Edition Champions. Lots of things in HERO could be folded into other things. Heck, I've seen half-serious recommendations to fold all the Attack Powers into Transform; after all it can be defined as doing anything you want to the target. But each of these Powers has its own distinctive flavor and style, which is another reason why there's still such a variety of them. Which one you choose will affect the "feel" of the resulting character.

 

FTL Travel is the cleanest, simplest choice for, well, FTL travel. Unlike MegaScale there's no base or maximum distance to calculate, no Endurance cost to factor in, no consideration of perceiving where you want to go (which is another issue with your Teleport example, Vestnik). Just choose your speed, and off you go.

 

Not to mention that when using FTL, one's SPD is irrelevant. Not so with Megascaled Flight.

 

C = 300,000 km/s (I rounded UP for easy math.)

For a SPD 6 character, 6" Flight + Megascale(1" = 100000 km; 1½) = Lightspeed.

Which costs 30 points and 3 END per Phase. Or buy FTL for 10 points and no END cost. However, FTL has built-in limitations like the aforementioned not in atmosphere. It presumes the character takes a while to get up to speed, and takes a while to slow down. It also restricts the maneuverability of the character while using FTL moreso than just being Noncombat like with Mega-Flight.

[Comic]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

There's plenty of reason to use Megascale to get to light-like speeds (or beyond) -- you want the maneuverability and in-atmosphere goodiness of a character who can reach any crime scene anywhere in the world at a moment's notice, including if need be turning corners and taking stairs.

 

The Flash and Superman would both be examples of this sort of Mega-Running or Mega-Flight. While I doubt Aquaman or Namor swim at such speeds, I could see it for a water elemental type character, and Swamp Thing has some sort of Mega-Tunneling like this.

 

My preference is to only use Megascale or Teleport to get close to light speed for such effects, and if speeds beyond this are campaign necessities, FTL for long trips. I'll occasionaly consider Duplication or Stretching with Extra Limbs to model people so fast they can seem to be in more than one place at a time.. But I digress.

[SteveZilla]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

In principle (that is' date=' outside the game), FTL wouldn't have to be limited to megascale-class distances. I recognize I'm imposing a view of game-world physics onto my thoughts here, but I can think of interesting tricks to pull with FTL movement even on an "ordinary" distance scale (e.g., you can outrun any electromagnetic or gravitic signal/weapon/effect) while still traversing the intervening distance.[/quote']

 

Which raises the question: Can you Dive for Cover With FTL, and if so, how far do you go?

 

That seems odd considering that even 1 second at the speed of light (not faster) is enough to circle the earth more than once.

 

Just about seven times (perhaps a fraction more -- I did the math once).

 

But there is the question: Yeah, but going at C, can you turn that sharply? I remember a mnemonic phrase from some Star Trek series: "Faster than light, no left or right."

 

One second at C gets you almost to the Moon. IMO C-speed drive is a great way to tour around the Solar System. It won't get you "cross country" to the nearest star in a reasonable time, but it works well for "around the neighborhood" trips.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

I always considered 5" to be the minimum purchase for any move not innate (i.e. run, swim, leap).

 

So either:

 

Flight 5", Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), MegaScale (1" = 1 billion km; +2 1/2) (40 Active Points)

 

or:

 

Faster-Than-Light Travel (4 Light Years/hour) (40 Active Points)

 

The former is actually faster, since for each +1/4 you get a x10 to your speed -- instead of a x2 for every 2 AP...

[Thia Halmades]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Which raises the question: Can you Dive for Cover With FTL' date=' and if so, how far do you go? [/quote']

 

*Calmly sets his phaser to 'Oh No You Dinnit'...*

[Lucius]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Which raises the question: Can you Dive for Cover With FTL, and if so, how far do you go?

 

 

Didn't I see that manuever in Star Wars?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Diving for cover behind a palindromedary

[Lucius]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

My personal speculation is that the benefits/hassles ratio of keeping things simple by having them separate outweighed the benefits/hassles ratio of merging them.

 

Then how do you explain what was done with Regeneration?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary points out to me that while the Degeneration of Regeneration is a worthy topic, it's not the topic of this thread. The palindromedary is a spoilsport.

[SteveZilla]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Somebody had a Brain Fart?

[caris]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Then how do you explain what was done with Regeneration?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary points out to me that while the Degeneration of Regeneration is a worthy topic, it's not the topic of this thread. The palindromedary is a spoilsport.

 

That whoever was adding up the numbers to calculate the ratio forgot to carry the three.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Then how do you explain what was done with Regeneration?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary points out to me that while the Degeneration of Regeneration is a worthy topic, it's not the topic of this thread. The palindromedary is a spoilsport.

 

There was a rip in the fabric of space/time and the new Regeneration, Instant Change and Shapeshift powers were actually all written by the goatee wearing Anti-Steve?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Didn't I shoot that guy? Bear in mind though, to me, FTL & Regen are part & parcel of the system because I didn't play fourth; just Fifth revised. And I have no problem with either rule, really. Why do y'all get a crick in yer necks when someone says 'regen' anyway?

[caris]

Re: FTL vs. Lots of Megascale Movement

 

Didn't I shoot that guy? Bear in mind though' date=' to me, FTL & Regen are part & parcel of the system because I didn't play fourth; just Fifth [i']revised[/i]. And I have no problem with either rule, really. Why do y'all get a crick in yer necks when someone says 'regen' anyway?

 

Well each of us have our own reasons. Personally, I dislike the fact that it is built out the Healing mechanic, which isn't a problem, except it is allowed to break the limitation on number of uses that is an inherent part of Healing in 5th with no Advantage in the build. (Of course, I just ignore that limitation on Healing and just let players use it as often as they like.)