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Chris Goodwin

Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Also I believe that a well laid out guide book is essential for new players. For a new to hero gamer' date=' an attempt [i']on their own [/i] to build a Gundam for a game based in that universe is very very difficult. I know of experienced Herophiles that still balk at building things using Hero Vehicle rules because they just don't feel right. And Mecha are vehicles.

 

This is SO very true. :cry:

 

This is very much what I hope to do' date=' specifically rewriting and cleaning up the RW rules so that they are usable with 5th edition. Ideally the whole work will include one chapter that is the Robot Warriors design rules, updated, and another chapter for using the HERO System vehicle rules. However, until and unless I get the go ahead from Steve Long to do the RW update, I'm not going to be able to; not that I won't write it up myself, but I won't be able to publish it. Therefore, I'm going to focus on writing up effectively an entire mecha genre book, along with guidelines for using the HERO System vehicle rules for writing up mecha that are as compatible as I can reasonably make them with the Robot Warriors design rules; my purpose in doing this is so that a GM could drop in either set of rules and have mecha with a similar look and feel.[/quote']

 

 

 

We're all counting on you, Chriss! Good luck! ;)

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Sorry to confuse you. It seems that I've simply misread your original intent. Seems we're on the same page here.

 

As a great lover of Supermecha, I'm very used to game designers completely and utterly ignoring my favorite subgenre and I'm damned tired of it. It makes me a bit sensitive when it comes to this particular subject.

 

No problem here ;) My sig is very much based in truth. The BBS challenged part..

 

As to Mecha, I am with you. I love the entire genre from hardsuits to SuperMecha and have always been disappointed by most of the build systems out there. I think the best solution is to create a guideline for each general "type". A guideline that assists the GM/player in designing a viable SuperMecha (Giant Realistic or Giant Fantastic) can be done. But the considerations in that design will be different from the ones that have to be considered when building Priss's Hardsuit (Human-sized Fantastic) or a Veritech (Regular Fantastic).

 

I totally agree that a single guide simply cannot cover the entire range using the same figures. But a single book with separate guidelines for the different types is completely possible. Just like we have a split between Super, Heroic and Normal. There needs to be a split between Human-sized, Regular and Giant. The realistic/fantastic is just minor changes to address limitations to gear. With realistic limiting the numbers of weapons and such to reflect load and weight limits while a fantastic mecha can ignore amny of the them due to rubber science/magic.

 

This is very much what I hope to do' date=' specifically rewriting and cleaning up the RW rules so that they are usable with 5th edition. Ideally the whole work will include one chapter that is the Robot Warriors design rules, updated, and another chapter for using the HERO System vehicle rules. However, until and unless I get the go ahead from Steve Long to do the RW update, I'm not going to be able to; not that I won't write it up myself, but I won't be able to publish it. Therefore, I'm going to focus on writing up effectively an entire mecha genre book, along with guidelines for using the HERO System vehicle rules for writing up mecha that are as compatible as I can reasonably make them with the Robot Warriors design rules; my purpose in doing this is so that a GM could drop in either set of rules and have mecha with a similar look and feel.[/quote']

 

Woot :thumbup:

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

I look forward to seeing your finished product Chris, even if its on a website as opposed to a published book or even an e-book.

 

Start boning up on your Mecha Anime Chris! I know you've said that you aren't very familiar with much of it. One of the problems with the mecha genre is that the uninitiated think it isn't very complicated and that there isn't much to mecha other than a giant robot with big-assed weapons fighting giant dinosaurs. However, the genre is rife with technological considerations oftentimes (while extremely rubber) incredibly complex and intricately detailed. From Gundam's Minovsky Drive systems, I-Field and Incom Bit systems, to Evangelions S-2 Engine and AT Field to Macross Plus and the ridiculously complex YF-21. (the damn thing has 3-dimensional thrust vectoring, Dynamic control surfaces [they "morph" for the best maneuverability depending on speed and atmospheric pressure] and the Pilot controls it via Mind Link...known as the Brain Direct Control System!)

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

If you need any of us Mecha fans to do some digging and research just let me know :D

 

I'd be glad to help in anyway you might need.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

I think you would be making a mistake by putting attention on what scale is rather than what scale means. "Bigger" in HERO means easier to see (+PER for observers,) easier to hit (-DCV,) and occupies more space (potential AE on physical attacks, potential increased reach.) Everything else is SFX or force-fed package deals.

 

Heat is easy to emulate with a one-two punch. First, you establish a method for losing equipment/abilities/weaponry when damage is received and, second, you build your mech with BODY Susceptabilities to burning more than X END in a phase/segment/turn. Fire all weapons while moving at full speed and turn yourself into a chestnut roasting on an open fire.

 

Robot Warriors, IMO, is much venerated for what it could have been not what it accomplished. It provided little that anyone could port into their own game and only managed to vaguely resemble Hero System enough to draw attention. But, heck, I bought my copy new upon release so maybe it wasn't so bad after all.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

I think you would be making a mistake by putting attention on what scale is rather than what scale means. "Bigger" in HERO means easier to see (+PER for observers,) easier to hit (-DCV,) and occupies more space (potential AE on physical attacks, potential increased reach.) Everything else is SFX or force-fed package deals.

 

Heat is easy to emulate with a one-two punch. First, you establish a method for losing equipment/abilities/weaponry when damage is received and, second, you build your mech with BODY Susceptabilities to burning more than X END in a phase/segment/turn. Fire all weapons while moving at full speed and turn yourself into a chestnut roasting on an open fire.

 

Robot Warriors, IMO, is much venerated for what it could have been not what it accomplished. It provided little that anyone could port into their own game and only managed to vaguely resemble Hero System enough to draw attention. But, heck, I bought my copy new upon release so maybe it wasn't so bad after all.

 

Yes and no. If we are talking BattleTech then yes. And if we are talking pure combat related dice chunking.

 

But what is really the discussion point is the vast difference of scale in Mecha across the genre. For BattleTech, Patlabor, and so on the scale of the Mecha, or size if that feels better as a term, directly influences weapons, ammo loads, and (as you mentioned) heat dispersal. But in a mech like Eva 1, Big O or to really mess things up Neo Ranga considerations like tonnage are pretty much moot where a single round can weight as much as an entire BattleTech mech.

 

I am not saying that one is better than another. I am saying that a guideline that works great for a 60 ton BattleMech that worries about heat in battle won't be worth a hill of beans for a GM trying to design Big O, Godanner or the mecha in Vandread.

 

But book that has a section that addresses the differences of each general type of mecha and then discusses methods of allowing these different types to interact within the same campaign would be worth its weight in gold.

 

I think I echo NuSoardGraphite in this statement: Mecha is a very large a diverse genre. The Unofficial Ultimate Mecha :rolleyes: should cover the wide subject and ways to intermix mecha types (and scales) for a balanced game.

 

The small details like endless lists of heat sinks and gun barrels ala BattleTech can be filled out from a basic list by the GM. But many newer GM's will simply skip the genre if he discovers he will need to design everything from scratch.

 

If I am a GM and my group gets done watching Neon Genesis Evengelion and I decide to try and run it, the Unofficial Ultimate Mecha should have a section discussing Fanastic Giant Mecha (or Supermecha).

 

If the group watched Patlabor and or Robotech and wants too build that the same type of info should be available.

 

Or if they want to mix the genres up. There should be suggestions of how to make it work. By the way take a gander at Samurai 7 if you want to see a complete mixing of scales, humans, more than humans and mecha of all scales.

 

All in all I think I am just saying that in general a Mecha Guide should try to avoid bogging itself down to reflect only one type of Mecha. Of course, if the writer intends to concentrate on a single type, well that is whole different kettle of fish ;)

 

Now Robot Warriors was a good stab at doing Mecha. I own an original copy and remember buying it when it was new. The only problem I had with it was though it probably intended to be open ended and cover any mech, it was obviously written to allow play in a BattleTech type universe. There is nothing at all wrong with this in my eyes. At the time BT was huge. But I can speak from experience when I say it isn't very useful at all if you attempt to build SuperMechs (Giant Mecha). I had more success using TUV and a lot of hand waving.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Maybe, just maybe, the label mecha has been stretched way too bleeding far if you're asking it to fit both Transformers and The Great Mazinga. Asking any other genre to allow players to be anything from ants to ettins and you would be laughed off the stage, the table would be flipped. I would hope that Chris, HYPOTHETICALLY ;), wouldn't try to do too much and accomplish too little.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Maybe' date=' just maybe, the label mecha has been stretched way too bleeding far if you're asking it to fit both Transformers and The Great Mazinga. Asking any other genre to allow players to be anything from ants to ettins and you would be laughed off the stage, the table would be flipped. I would hope that Chris, HYPOTHETICALLY ;), wouldn't try to do too much and accomplish too little.[/quote']

 

It's possible you are sorta right ;)

 

But I have seen one shots where the party played Ants defending the hive inspired by Antz, Rabbits inspired by Watership Down, and a mixed bag of Ettins, Ogres and such in a "let's play monsters" game. Hero handled them all pretty good.

 

I really do believe Hero can handle the entire range of Mecha out their. A Hypothetical Ultimate Guide :hush: wouldn't need to actually define everything as much as assist the GM in creating the effect he needs.

 

Plus I am always willing to ask for the sky :sneaky:

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

A Hypothetical Ultimate Guide :hush: wouldn't need to actually define everything as much as assist the GM in creating the effect he needs.
That, really, is the essence of the Hero System, and the reason we love it so much. :D

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

That' date=' really, is the essence of the Hero System, and the reason we love it so much. :D[/quote']

 

QFT

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

All these examples of mecha shows and nobody mentioned Armored Trooper VOTOMS ?

As well as Aura Battler Dunbine, or Combattler V.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

All these examples of mecha shows and nobody mentioned Armored Trooper VOTOMS ?

As well as Aura Battler Dunbine, or Combattler V.

 

Ah Ha!

 

Even more reason for a Hypothetical Ultimate Guide to Mecha :D

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

What are some good mecha shows/manga with a fantasy or mystical bent?

 

Not my exact expertise/anime interest but:

 

Escaflowne (aka Vision of Escaflowne), Neo Ranga, and Sakura Wars (more mystical steampunk).

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Maybe' date=' just maybe, the label mecha has been stretched way too bleeding far if you're asking it to fit both Transformers and The Great Mazinga. Asking any other genre to allow players to be anything from ants to ettins and you would be laughed off the stage, the table would be flipped. I would hope that Chris, HYPOTHETICALLY ;), wouldn't try to do too much and accomplish too little.[/quote']

 

Thats the thing...the Mecha "genre" encompasses all those and a whole lot more. Mecha isn't really a "genre" in itself so much as it is a specific feature adapted to a whole host of genres.

 

A proper Mecha sourcebook should provide guidelines on adapting mecha to any type of setting, genre and time-period. As well as the various types of mecha and how they interact with one another.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Thats the thing...the Mecha "genre" encompasses all those and a whole lot more. Mecha isn't really a "genre" in itself so much as it is a specific feature adapted to a whole host of genres.

 

A proper Mecha sourcebook should provide guidelines on adapting mecha to any type of setting, genre and time-period. As well as the various types of mecha and how they interact with one another.

 

Hey....a better way to say it :D

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

What are some good mecha shows/manga with a fantasy or mystical bent?

 

Maze

Magic Knight Rayearth

Aura Battler Dunbine

The Vision of Escaflowne

The Five Star Stories

 

Aura Battler Dunbine is the original Mecha Fantasy. Magic Knight Rayearth is perhaps the most well-known example of the genre. It is by a group of manga artists and writers known as CLAMP and is arguably their most popular work.

The Vision of Escaflowne is by far the most popular example on the list. It is my favorite anime TV series of all time.

 

The Five Star Stories isn't "pure" fantasy, nor is it pure Sci-fi....it is Science/Fantasy at its best. It has mecha, space ships and rayguns, but it also has ghosts, dragons, gods and sorcerors. It is my favorite manga..hell its one of my favorite things on the planet. Its where my username comes from. There is a one-shot OAV that was produced, but it is not a good example of the substance found in the manga. The manga itself is pure gold...and very rare. The first 10 volumes of the Japanese manga were translated into english (split into 26 smaller volumes) but it is out of print and very difficult to find in its entirety.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

So, how is it going, Chriss? Are we soon going to enjoye the result of your hard work?;)

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Well... the holidays happened, and then a new job, which is good for my bank account but bad for my free time to create. I also started working on some "ultimate" type lists of packages for the four main fantasy archetypes, though the lists themselves are not genre-specific. Blame my gamer ADD for that one.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

What are some good mecha shows/manga with a fantasy or mystical bent?

 

Vision of Escaflowne (Mecha pilots are the feudal aristocracy, and psychic powers of precognition play a vital role)

Magic Knight Rayearth (once the Machin come into play especially)

Sakura Wars (Steampunk mecha powered by psychic energy)

 

Although it's not an anime or manga but an RPG setting, Uresia's Emerald Knights are excellent examples of fantasy mecha.

 

If you want to see a big mecha intervening in a standard fantasy campaign, try the Orahelicon Golem of Slayers NEXT. It's also a good example of why you do not put your faith in armor when dealing with sorcerous tacnukes.....

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

All the above and a good conversion of mecha found in Cthulhutech.

 

-

 

Cthulutech??? Is this serious? :nonp:

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Absolutely. Only problems with it: it's someone else's IP, and I don't have it (and am not likely to), so I won't be doing any conversions of it.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Absolutely. Only problems with it: it's someone else's IP' date=' and I don't have it (and am not likely to), so I won't be doing any conversions of it.[/quote']Try to stick in a reasonable facsimile (the old "filing off the serial numbers" routine).

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