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Chris Goodwin

Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Try to stick in a reasonable facsimile (the old "filing off the serial numbers" routine).

 

"Mecha vs Edomites," maybe? Instead of "Cthulhutech," call it "Edomecha." ;)

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

I shall use my powers to resurrect this thread! More to come. (Its Thanksgiving' date=' I got stuff to do)[/quote']

 

Thread necromancy plus a cliffhanger? Now you're just being a tease. :rolleyes:

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

I thought that was called Iczer-1

 

What has been is what will be,

and what has been done is what will be done,

and there is nothing new under the sun.

---Ecclesiastes 1:9

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

What it says on the tin. What kinds of things would you like to see addressed? Specifically:

 

  • What kind of rules? (Hero System vehicle rules, updated and rewritten Robot Warriors rules, new rules)
     
  • What kinds of campaigns? (Realistic military, superpowered Champions-style robot heroes, others)
     
  • What scope would you like to see it cover? (Full genre book, mini-genre a la Post-Apocalyptic Hero, all-in-one a la Lucha Hero)
     
  • Something I haven't mentioned.

 

Totally! I loved Robot Warriors....maybe something like Ninja Hero front part rules and how too, back end basic games and tropes...

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Totally! I loved Robot Warriors....maybe something like Nunja Hero front part rules and how too' date=' back end basic games and tropes...[/quote']

 

Well, now that I officially have "some game design" under my belt, Chris, we can talk offline about how I can more meaningfully contribute to doing this. I have plenty of ideas as I've been working on "Star Combat HERO" for a while now, and I finally figured JUST ABOUT how to do everything. So let's make a plan to get together after the holiday and hammer out some ideas, yeah? Push this thing forward and see if we can't do it for 6th Ed.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Totally! I loved Robot Warriors....maybe something like Nunja Hero front part rules and how too' date=' back end basic games and tropes...[/quote']

 

It's amazing how many implements of Mass Destruction you can hide under a cassock and wimple.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

What I would like to do is start a discussion on how to simulate various mecha technological oddities via the Hero System rules.

 

One example being the case of the Mecha powered by a biological entity such as a co-pilot. There are multiple examples of this: Fight! Iczer-1 being the most famous, but there is a case for Hades Project: Zeorymer and Grandizer as well.

 

Basically, the mecha draws its power from one of the characters in the mecha! How would you simulate this via HERO? The endurance expenditure on most Mecha weaponry/movement systems would K.O. a human in short order, unless they bought a crapload of Endurance.

 

Now one idea I had was that the mecha draws from the characters Psychic Potential and not from their Endurance. In which case, the character buys Psychic Potential as an Endurance Reserve and this is what the Mecha draws from. Anyone else have any ideas about this one?

 

Also, how would you deal with Remote Drones (known as "Bits" in the Gundam Universe). Vehicles with a computer brain? Radio communication and controlled by a character? I'd like to see some writeups for these as well.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

What I would like to do is start a discussion on how to simulate various mecha technological oddities via the Hero System rules.

 

One example being the case of the Mecha powered by a biological entity such as a co-pilot. There are multiple examples of this: Fight! Iczer-1 being the most famous, but there is a case for Hades Project: Zeorymer and Grandizer as well.

 

Basically, the mecha draws its power from one of the characters in the mecha! How would you simulate this via HERO? The endurance expenditure on most Mecha weaponry/movement systems would K.O. a human in short order, unless they bought a crapload of Endurance.

 

Now one idea I had was that the mecha draws from the characters Psychic Potential and not from their Endurance. In which case, the character buys Psychic Potential as an Endurance Reserve and this is what the Mecha draws from. Anyone else have any ideas about this one?

 

If a particular mech is tied to a specific character so that only he or she can run it, I'd call that just a Special Effect of an Endurance Reserve or Fuel Charges, however its power source is defined. If the reserve of energy varies with the "psychic potential" of whoever the pilot is, I'd buy it with a Limitation, "Only up to X times the END/EGO/AP in Mental Powers (whichever seems most appropriate) of piloting character."

 

Also' date=' how would you deal with Remote Drones (known as "Bits" in the Gundam Universe). Vehicles with a computer brain? Radio communication and controlled by a character? I'd like to see some writeups for these as well.[/quote']

 

I'm not familiar with that reference. What do these drones actually do? What are their capabilities?

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

if the drones are just idiot recon drones/remote sensors, just buy them as clairsentience with a mobile perception point etc, otherwise build them as robots or small vehicles

 

then we could talk about what IMHO is the dumbest idea for mecha in anime, the giant extension cord! like used in Neon Genesis Evangelion.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

then we could talk about what IMHO is the dumbest idea for mecha in anime, the giant extension cord! like used in Neon Genesis Evangelion.

 

HAHA, are you serious? :drink:

 

That reminds me of that psionic helmet thingy from The Tick that had a pull-start like a lawnmower.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

 

then we could talk about what IMHO is the dumbest idea for mecha in anime, the giant extension cord! like used in Neon Genesis Evangelion.

 

Ah! But it is a great plot device :eg:

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

If a particular mech is tied to a specific character so that only he or she can run it' date=' I'd call that just a Special Effect of an Endurance Reserve or Fuel Charges, however its power source is defined. If the reserve of energy varies with the "psychic potential" of whoever the pilot is, I'd buy it with a Limitation, "Only up to X times the END/EGO/AP in Mental Powers (whichever seems most appropriate) of piloting character."[/quote']

 

Well, in many cases with a power source such as this, utilizing the mecha for too long will drain the co-pilot (or pilot) of life energy to a dangerous degree. In some cases, this can cause unconsciousness, in others, it can cause death. In almost all cases, it will exhaust the person the energy is being drawn from.

In the anime FIGHT! Iczer-1 the mecha IczerRobo was piloted by Iczer-1 and the power source was the earth-girl Nagisa Kano. When Izcer-1 summoned IczerRobo, Nagisa would be absorbed into the center of the mecha and her psychic potential was used to power the robot. Even a relatively modest battle seemed to drain Nagisa of a good chunk of her Endurance. However the trade off was that Nagisa's emotional state could affect the performance of IczerRobo. (Pushing based on Nagisa's Ego roll? Aid/Succor?) And a "power source" that didn't have sufficient conviction could be a liability in battles. (If the Ego roll is failed, perhaps a Drain on some of the mecha's systems)

 

 

I'm not familiar with that reference. What do these drones actually do? What are their capabilities?

 

Well, the drones can do a number of things usually. They could be used for recon (clairsentience of course) and in many shows that use them, they can be used for offense. The Mobile Suit Gundam series is probably the best known anime that uses them regularly, though they've been used recently in the newest Macross series (MACROSS FRONTIER If you haven't seen it yet, download it NOW! Its beyond good) as well as many other anime shows. Usually they are very small vehicles/drones that follow along with the parent mecha and attack any enemy that comes within range. My instinct is to design them as small (man-sized or just a bit bigger) vehicles with various sensors and weapons (and a propulsion system) and probably a modest computer with a few recon and defense programs built in. In most anime, they are linked to the mecha by radio or laser communication, thus they can be foiled via ECM systems. (Darkness vs Radio or Electromagnetic groups) however in Mobile Suit Gundam, the presence of radio disrupting particles in the atmosphere and space surrounding earth led to the creation of Wire controlled remote bits (the bits are attatched to the mecha via thin fiberoptic cables) and in rare cases, Psychically controlled bits (sice brainwaves aren't affected by minovsky particles). The Psi-controlled bits are especially effective since they respond to the pilots mental commands at the speed of thought. Mobile Suit units equipped with such drones are shown to be the most dangerous opponents throughout the series.

 

One of the coolest uses of the Remote Bits is from Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack where the main characters mecha, the RX93: Nu Gundam had a suite of 4 large remote bits which housed powerful beam cannons within them (Psi-controlled of course) but these bits had a secret: they could be called to surround the Nu Gundam and combine their beam projectors together to create a full 360 degree Force Field around the mecha!

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

then we could talk about what IMHO is the dumbest idea for mecha in anime, the giant extension cord! like used in Neon Genesis Evangelion.

 

Evangelion is easy. The mecha essentially had a 0 Endurance naked advantage with the OIF/bulky limitation (power cords). When the OIF is removed or destroyed, the mecha then converts to using its internal Endurance Reserve, which while quite large, is only enough energy to run the damned thing for a couple of minutes....especially if in the middle of a battle.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Hey Chris. How goes the project thus far? I don't want this thread to get burried too far down, so lets keep the discussion going guys!

 

Another consideration are Signature Moves. Some mecha shows (and pretty much all Supermecha shows) showcase the various pilots skills by having them have signature moves. These are maneuvers or techniques that no one else posseses. They aren't necessarily powers or equipment built into the mecha, but instead are something that the pilot developed based on the mecha's capabilities.

 

A good example is Maximilian Genius's ability to use the Transformation Sequence of his Variable Fighter to assist in dodge maneuvers and to instantly change facing. Isamu Dyson uses the thrusters in the VF-19 to do a boost-assisted flying kick, utilizing the Pinpoint Barrier System to protect the legs from damage during the maneuver.

 

Martial Maneuvers and how they interact with Mecha are also a consideration. In Super Robot shows, the Characters will oftentimes how superpowers or Martial Maneuvers built with Powers. How should these manifest when the pilot decides to pull his Earthshattering Punch with his 100 Ton Mecha?!?!?!?

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Be nice if this was a full book. Wouldnt mind seeing expanded Hero Rules for Mecha and then related to realistic military combat.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Feel free to keep the discussion going! The phases of my gamer-ADD-moon have turned away from mecha lately, but they should turn back around at some point.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

I'd like to see coverage for non-mecha vs mecha combat, such as Samurai 7.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Be nice if this was a full book. Wouldnt mind seeing expanded Hero Rules for Mecha and then related to realistic military combat.

 

 

Why stop at realistic? There are many considerations to be made for superheroic combat as well.

 

I'd like to see coverage for non-mecha vs mecha combat' date=' such as Samurai 7. [/quote']

 

Indeed. Thats why I support not changing the system much between vehicular and non-vehicular combat. It makes integrating such things much easier. As things stand now, its quite easy to do Samurai7 with HERO. Try that with Mekton and the characters will go SQUISH every time.

 

Of course, Damage Class and Defense are the ultimate factor in determining such combats. Just make sure such characters have attacks powerful enough to damage the mecha. Remember, if the Damage Class equals or exceeds the Defense, then there is a good chance of being able to do reliable amounts of damage regularly.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

 

Indeed. Thats why I support not changing the system much between vehicular and non-vehicular combat. It makes integrating such things much easier. As things stand now, its quite easy to do Samurai7 with HERO. Try that with Mekton and the characters will go SQUISH every time.

 

Of course, Damage Class and Defense are the ultimate factor in determining such combats. Just make sure such characters have attacks powerful enough to damage the mecha. Remember, if the Damage Class equals or exceeds the Defense, then there is a good chance of being able to do reliable amounts of damage regularly.

 

I look at a mecha book being more of a 'flavor' or 'effects' book than one that tries to establish rules. To me a Mecha book would be more like the Ultimate Mentalist or Ultimate Brick except relating to Mecha. But as a clarification I don't really consider Battletech as 'Mecha', to me they are just walking tanks. Mecha such as seen in Robotech, Full Metal Panic, Code Geass, etc., all have a distinct feel to them. And getting that feel to translate is the hard part.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

I look at a mecha book being more of a 'flavor' or 'effects' book than one that tries to establish rules. To me a Mecha book would be more like the Ultimate Mentalist or Ultimate Brick except relating to Mecha. But as a clarification I don't really consider Battletech as 'Mecha'' date=' to me they are just walking tanks. Mecha such as seen in Robotech, Full Metal Panic, Code Geass, etc., all have a distinct feel to them. And getting that feel to translate is the hard part.[/quote']

 

I find it funny that you do not count Battletech as mecha but you do robotech, as back in the day Battletech borrowed (Actualy licencing) robotech mechs for the game (The original Warhammer springs to mind, as do the Phoenix Hawk LAM's)

 

no offence, and not trying to change your mind, I just find it funny

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

I find it funny that you do not count Battletech as mecha but you do robotech, as back in the day Battletech borrowed (Actualy licencing) robotech mechs for the game (The original Warhammer springs to mind, as do the Phoenix Hawk LAM's)

 

no offence, and not trying to change your mind, I just find it funny

 

Oh I understand your reasoning. I was around when the first versions of BT hit the street and remember both it's start up and the much superior game Centurian.

 

But Robotech/Marcross/Whichever incarnation you decide to choose. Had two distinct types of mecha, the Veritech style mecha that transformed and moved in a fluid almost organic manner. The other mecha were support mechs that basically operated in a clunky tank like manner. In the shows they couldn't fly and filled the place of good-guy mooks that blew up a lot.

 

The mecha that Battletech imitated in 1st edition were not the Veritechs but the support mechs, the mooks. I fully understand why because they would be much easier to design movement rules for. And well, easier all around. Then when they began adding jump/fly capable mechs (the LAMS you mentioned IIRC), in order to maintain play balance they couldn't get too 'fast' or maneuverable. But a BT mech that 'fell over' or 'fell down' could take serious damage. While a Veritech/more Anime'ish mecha can not only fall down, but dive to the ground like a human without severely impacting their operational ability. I stopped looking too close when the clan BS started and they began imitating Palladium and slapping stuff out just to sell product.

 

I know they cleaned the game up in later editions, but BT mecha never have shaken their origins and the rule mechnics still push the mecha into being clunky. Necessary because of the rule structure, but there even so.

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Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Oh I understand your reasoning. I was around when the first versions of BT hit the street and remember both it's start up and the much superior game Centurian.

 

But Robotech/Marcross/Whichever incarnation you decide to choose. Had two distinct types of mecha, the Veritech style mecha that transformed and moved in a fluid almost organic manner. The other mecha were support mechs that basically operated in a clunky tank like manner. In the shows they couldn't fly and filled the place of good-guy mooks that blew up a lot.

 

The mecha that Battletech imitated in 1st edition were not the Veritechs but the support mechs, the mooks. I fully understand why because they would be much easier to design movement rules for. And well, easier all around. Then when they began adding jump/fly capable mechs (the LAMS you mentioned IIRC), in order to maintain play balance they couldn't get too 'fast' or maneuverable. But a BT mech that 'fell over' or 'fell down' could take serious damage. While a Veritech/more Anime'ish mecha can not only fall down, but dive to the ground like a human without severely impacting their operational ability. I stopped looking too close when the clan BS started and they began imitating Palladium and slapping stuff out just to sell product.

 

I know they cleaned the game up in later editions, but BT mecha never have shaken their origins and the rule mechnics still push the mecha into being clunky. Necessary because of the rule structure, but there even so.

 

Well, the thing is the Veritechs are just like that. They seem fluid and graceful and indestructible because we see them from the perspective of the aces. Rick has all sorts of problems, at first, and remember he ends up falling over and totaling his Veritech as well as Minmay's restaurant.

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