Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

And remember -- Giant Robot Hands Save Lives.

 

It makes no mechanical sense for them to do so, yet in genre they always do. It's one of the points of having a human-shaped mecha.

[JmOz]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

I would say the giant robot hands is based on the principle that hero's should be rewarded for being heroic.

[brionl]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Giant Robotic Happy Ending?

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Giant Robotic Happy Ending?

 

Rule 34 strikes again...

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Need to bump this thread again. I don't have any idea if this would ever get made (unlikely) but us mecha fans gotta keep the faith. Any additional ideas on what such a book should constitute?

 

Has Steve ever mentioned an Ultimate Powered Armor book in the works?

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Need to bump this thread again. I don't have any idea if this would ever get made (unlikely) but us mecha fans gotta keep the faith. Any additional ideas on what such a book should constitute?

 

Has Steve ever mentioned an Ultimate Powered Armor book in the works?

 

I think the closest we'll get is a chapter on mecha in Hero System Vehicles (in 2012), like there was in TUV.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

And that's fine. Unfortunately, The Ultimate Vehicle tends to run toward designing realistic vehicles. It doesn't got very deep into fantastic territory in which the mecha sub-genre routinely resides in. Hopefully the 6th version of TUV will have a chapter on designing vehicles with fantastic abilities. That would go a long way toward helping prospective mecha campaigners design their favorite metal warriors...

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

How many system (as opposed to flavor) qualities differ between a mecha such as a Gundam or Veritech and a fighter jet and/or tank? Other, that is, than the fact that the ones I cited can fill both roles on the battlefield simultaneously and perform them well.

[brionl]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Transformable ones like the Veritechs are easy enough to do with Multiform. The system problems come in with the combiners, like Voltron, or the Power Rangers and stuff like that there.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

I think scale would be something to consider, such as tanks vs mecha, mecha has a great advantage. And how about losing body parts, or at least affecting joints so you don't run as fast or able to shoot as good. And maybe a heat scale of some sort. (Can you guess what system I'm thinking?)

 

Back to scale, instead of having 14D6 plus rka and a hugh level of armor, there has to be an easier way to do it. (I have considered giving multiple ap and pen for weapons which would be at least one level more than hardened for tank armor to show that mecha weapons are that much powerful.)

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

How many system (as opposed to flavor) qualities differ between a mecha such as a Gundam or Veritech and a fighter jet and/or tank? Other' date=' that is, than the fact that the ones I cited can fill both roles on the battlefield simultaneously and perform them well.[/quote']

 

In most systems, the difference is minimal. The main difference tends to be the type/amount of advanced technology put into them. In most mecha shows the lion's share of state of the art technology goes into the mecha of course. Very rarely do you see tanks with remote drones, energy barriers, teleportation capabilities or thought controls, unless of course that tank has the ability to transform into a humanoid mecha.

 

Most gaming systems that gave players the ability to design mecha (not very many mind you) had very little mechanical differences between mecha/tanks/fighters. The main one was Mekton of course, which had a whole host of advanced gadgets one could drop into mecha. GURPS Vehicles treated them very similarly as far as performance was concerned, though they maneuvered very differently (and tanks were a whole lot more stable than mecha). The main advantage that mecha have over a vehicle with a more dedicated role is versatility of course, and this should be reflected in the design. Mecha are far more maneuverable than tanks and can traverse rougher terrain than any other ground vehicle with little difficulty (especially those mecha that can jump). Mecha have a high profile which can have both advantages and disadvantages. They are easier to spot (and thus target) from further away because of their tallness, but on the other hand, "Head" mounted sensors will have a better vantage point for sensing targets farther away. And because most mecha have arms with hands, they can easily change weaponry on the fly. That is probably their biggest advantage.

 

Many mecha shows have their mecha change components on a regular basis via hardpoints on the mecha's torso, arms and legs. Gundam does this often where mobile suits will mount large beam cannons or gatling guns on their shoulder hardpoints. They mount booster packs in a "backpack" style configuration to enhance their leaping and flying capabilities. Additional weapons, missiles/rockets and equipment are often mounted to the arms and legs (such as the V-Gundam being able to mount barrier generators to the arms and legs of the unit greatly increasing its defensive capabilties) and oftentimes this extra equipment can be jettisoned with the touch of a button by the pilot to drop the extra weight to increase maneuverability (thus anything mounted on Hardpoints should count toward the mecha's encumbrance total)

 

There's so much to consider. I wish I had more free time to dedicate to the subject.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Transformable ones like the Veritechs are easy enough to do with Multiform. The system problems come in with the combiners' date=' like Voltron, or the Power Rangers and stuff like that there.[/quote']

 

The 5th edition version of The Ultimate Vehicle dealt with Combining as a varation of Multiform, which is pretty much the way I've done it for a long time. Although there is a strong case to be made for Duplication as well.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

I think scale would be something to consider' date=' such as tanks vs mecha, mecha has a great advantage. And how about losing body parts, or at least affecting joints so you don't run as fast or able to shoot as good. And maybe a heat scale of some sort. (Can you guess what system I'm thinking?)[/quote']

 

I don't really like the concept of heat so much. That was one aspect of Battletech that annoyed the crap out of me and why I didn't play it all that often. It is easily done with a side effect limitation (Transform maybe). As far as affecting limbs etc, that was already built into the damage system laid out in The Ultimate Vehicle and it would work very similarly to the concept of Impairing/Disabling wounds that characters can suffer from. Depending on the amount of damage taken and to what system, penalties will acrue to various functions. If the legs are damaged, DCV, agility and movement penalties will apply. If the arms are damaged, STR penalties, OCV penalties for aiming weapons etc will apply. Damage to the head unit will probably impair sensing capability while damage to the torso could cause a whole host of problems including power plant leakage, general activity penalties, damage to the pilot or life support systems etc.

 

Back to scale, instead of having 14D6 plus rka and a hugh level of armor, there has to be an easier way to do it. (I have considered giving multiple ap and pen for weapons which would be at least one level more than hardened for tank armor to show that mecha weapons are that much powerful.)

 

It will totally depend on the "scale" of destruction you want your mecha to cause. Something on the scale of Gundam or Macross (and most "realistic" mecha anime) would probably average 5D6k to 7D6k. Much more than that is unnecessary for anything but the "big missiles" or incredibly powerful beam weaponry. You shouldn't ever really need to rock anything higher than 12D6K (just shy of a nuclear grade missile). For Supermecha, it could get pretty crazy, but in that type of genre rolling 20D6 is a part of the fun!

 

The main issue is to balance out the Damage vs Defense of your mecha. This also has to be balanced out against the Tanks and Fighters etc that populate your campaign setting. They all need to be designed to perform adequately according to the laws of the shows you are emulating. For example: If you want to emulate Gundam, in that universe Mobile Suits are the premier battlefield weapons. They are tougher and more agile than tanks. Tanks and typical fighter jets stand little chance against them, so their armor and weapons need to be designed accordingly. Even mobile suit vs mobile suit combat is gritty and fast and it only takes a few well-placed blows to destroy most opponents, thus in Gundam, agility tends to be the best defense. The typical Mobile Suit should probably have a Defense somewhere around 15. The typical 90mm gatling cannon should do 15DC's (5D6K) which averages 17.5 Body damage. Doing an average of 2.5 Body damage per hit, 4 hits will generate 10 Body damage, which is about half of the Body characteristic of a typical Mobile Suit (at 10" tall, they come out to 20 Body I think). And that's not even considering Armor Piercing rounds into the equation (which they should probably be considered) The typical Beam Saber in Gundam should do 5D6K (APx2) HKA, with STR, Skill Levels and martial maneuvers, It is pretty easy to achieve 7D6K damage, which averages 24.5 Body damage. With the AP effect, the mobile suite would only subtract 8 from the damage for 16.5 body damage. Pretty hefty damage for a single blow.

 

It may seem like 20 Body isn't enough for a 20 meter tall mecha, but remember that bringing a vehicle down to 0 body doesn't destroy it, that just disables it (its effectiveness is severely reduced and will have trouble operating) from that point it still requires another 20 body damage to destroy completely. (totaled and unsalvageable)

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

It will totally depend on the "scale" of destruction you want your mecha to cause. Something on the scale of Gundam or Macross (and most "realistic" mecha anime) would probably average 5D6k to 7D6k. Much more than that is unnecessary for anything but the "big missiles" or incredibly powerful beam weaponry. You shouldn't ever really need to rock anything higher than 12D6K (just shy of a nuclear grade missile). For Supermecha' date=' it could get pretty crazy, but in that type of genre rolling 20D6 is a part of the fun![/quote']

 

A classic example of the difference can be found in the satirical mecha series Martian Successor Nadesico (which is recommendable even nearly fifteen years later). The Aestavalis mecha used by the characters in the main series (that setting's "real life") were several orders less powerful than the super-mecha used in the series-within-a-series Gekiganger III (which was inspired by the clearly over-the-top super-mecha shows of the early '70s).

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

The 5th edition version of The Ultimate Vehicle dealt with Combining as a varation of Multiform' date=' which is pretty much the way I've done it for a long time. Although there is a strong case to be made for Duplication as well.[/quote']Actually, I used different versions using Multiform, Duplication, Summon, and no special powers but "shared resources," depending on the concept.

[Doc]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

And how about losing body parts' date=' or at least affecting joints so you don't run as fast or able to shoot as good.[/quote']

 

The main advantage that mecha have over a vehicle with a more dedicated role is versatility of course, and this should be reflected in the design. Mecha are far more maneuverable than tanks and can traverse rougher terrain than any other ground vehicle with little difficulty (especially those mecha that can jump). Mecha have a high profile which can have both advantages and disadvantages. They are easier to spot (and thus target) from further away because of their tallness, but on the other hand, "Head" mounted sensors will have a better vantage point for sensing targets farther away. And because most mecha have arms with hands, they can easily change weaponry on the fly. That is probably their biggest advantage.

 

Many mecha shows have their mecha change components on a regular basis via hardpoints on the mecha's torso, arms and legs. Gundam does this often where mobile suits will mount large beam cannons or gatling guns on their shoulder hardpoints. They mount booster packs in a "backpack" style configuration to enhance their leaping and flying capabilities. Additional weapons, missiles/rockets and equipment are often mounted to the arms and legs (such as the V-Gundam being able to mount barrier generators to the arms and legs of the unit greatly increasing its defensive capabilties) and oftentimes this extra equipment can be jettisoned with the touch of a button by the pilot to drop the extra weight to increase maneuverability (thus anything mounted on Hardpoints should count toward the mecha's encumbrance total)

 

That's it. And all those specificities come from the anthropomorphic design of such vehicules (I know there are other forms, but I wont consider them here). Humans usually build tools that are a specialization of one of their abilities (pliers are better hands, computers are better brains, cameras are better eyes, etc, etc, etc). An anthropomorphic mech, on the contrary, can basically do anything a person can physically do (more if it can fly), because it has legs and arms, generally with prehensible hands.

 

Legged movement confers advantages and inconvenients compared to wheeled movement. Legged movement uses more energy and is far less stable, but an anthropomorphic mech can go where a tank cannot, like in mountains, jungles, urban rubbles, marshes or shallow waters. What appens to a mech wich has been damaged to a leg? Can it still move? Can it still stand? What are its options if it is immobilized?

 

More importantly, a mech's arms are it's main specificity compared to a tank or a jet fighter. An anthropomorphic mech can grab objects, throw them. It can engage in hand-to-hand combat. It can change weapons easily, but also lose them more easily, if the hand or arm is damaged. When does a mech lose a weapon? When is its hand to damaged to carry one?

 

We also often forget about the non military, or even non combat uses of mecha. In Mobile Police Patlabor, mecha are used as heavy machinery and emergency vehicules on ground, under water and in space. Police mecha are used for traffic and crowd control. Are there specific rules we have to think of in those situations for a mech, say, compared to a crane?

 

All these can be simulated quite easily with the actual system, but I think a set of more specific, optional rules would enhance gameplay for us, mecha fans. If we can't get an Ultimate Mecha Book, I'd still hope the chapter on mecha in the new TUV would go beyond just the design of mecha and include such rules and gaming hints and ideas. After all, the mech concept goes through a lot of genres, and ideas about the gaming possibilities it opens would be welcomed, as in any other Hero book about any other subject.

 

P.S.: Gosh! My english writing has rusted!Sorry guys, I don't come so much anymore, but that thread is really important to me! See you!

[megaplayboy]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Probably been mentioned before, but:

Remote Control and Autopilot.

Mecha as Powered Armor

Mecha and Tech Level

Mecha vs. Non-Mecha Vehicles(Tanks, Ships, Aircraft, Starships) and Mecha vs. Infantry

Big Mecha vs. Smaller Mecha

Mecha vs. Kaiju(and at least a couple Kaiju writeups, and a MechaKaiju)

[Major Tom 2009]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

It's been a while since I last checked out this thread, so I don't know if the subject

has ever come up, but how about suggestions for cross-genre campaigns (mecha

and supers campaigns, or even mecha sci-fi and non-mecha sci-fi, for example)?

 

The idea for this question came from one of the stories that's part of the Battlestar

Galactica: 2003 and Robotech/Macross crossover fiction section at Fanfiction.net's

website. There's a scene in it where a dozen or so Vipers are chasing a single Veri-

tech fighter (there was a previous engagement between Colonial forces and Earth-

based forces at a colony world where Vipers went up against Veritechs, but the

Veritechs fought only in Jet mode -- which meant that the Colonials didn't have a

clue in hell about what the Veritechs were really capable of doing []), and the

Veritech promptly goes into Gerwalk mode, fires a missile spread that kills half the

Vipers chasing him, then switches to Soldier mode and finishes the rest of them

with his gunpod. Needless to say, the other Colonial pilots witnessing the transform-

ation immediately freak out ("Oh my gods, Cylons, they're turning into Cylons...").

 

That scene was just Full Of Win.

 

 

Major Tom 2009

[Doc]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

It's been a while since I last checked out this thread, so I don't know if the subject

has ever come up, but how about suggestions for cross-genre campaigns (mecha

and supers campaigns, or even mecha sci-fi and non-mecha sci-fi, for example)?

 

I think it has been said already, but there are indeed a lot of cross-genre campaigns that could be described in such a book (or chapter). What about steam-punk and mecha? Nerver read anything about this in a Hero book. Do mecha have particuliar rules or do they offer different gaming opportunities in a cyber-punk setting? And what about fantasy mecha? How are they affected by the magic system you chose to apply in your campaign?

 

Etc.

Etc.

Etc.

[steriaca]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Well, for Mecha Hero as a whole, I would love to see the rules on "Super Robots" and "Real Robots", ect. And a few sample mecha and settings (including the 'alive mecha' samples and 'robot composed of seperate pieces which can operate sepertly and together' build).

 

Then, we need a setting book.

 

Finaly, we need this: HERO System Mecha Garage (Book 1 of whatever). Think of it as an Enimies book for the Mecha Hero gendra.

[steriaca]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

*bump*

 

I'm intrested in what others think about my HERI System Mecha Garage ideal.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Of course, if a Mecha Hero sourcebook were to be released, a "Mecha Garage" type book would be a logical companion book to go along with it. Perhaps a setting book as well (I would probably set it at some point during the Terran Empire setting...maybe toward the latter days of the empire bridging the gap between Terran Empire and Galactic Champions). Such a book (Mecha Garage) should hold stats for at least 100 different mecha writeups with examples for realistic mecha, transformable mecha, Ultra-tech mecha, Super Mecha and Powered Armor. It should also hold a chapter with pre-generated equipment and weapons that can be "dropped in" to a GM's own mecha writeups (or added to the writeups in the book) which would create an endless number of varations available for your campaign setting...

 

While we're at it, Why don't we write up some mecha designs of our own and post them in this thread? It's a way to keep this thread and idea alive and give those GM's who are thinking of adding mecha to their campaigns (or starting a new one) some ideas to help get them started.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

Well, considering that the primary source material for a mecha campaign is anime, and Mr. Long's stated feelings about anime, I'm going to hazard a guess that a Mecha Hero book would have to be written by someone else. Maybe Steve Perrin could team up with someone to write a "spiritual sequel" to Robot Warriors.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

While we are waiting, here are some links to other threads about mecha scattered about the forums:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/83302-Powered-Suits-as-Vehicles?highlight=Mecha

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/31861-Battletech-Mechwarrior-Hero-Resources?highlight=Mecha

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/2976-Gundam-Wing-Mecha-Stats!?highlight=Battletech

The above Gundam Wing thread has the Wing Gundam Zero posted inside and is a good example of a highly detailed Mecha writeup. Check it out if you haven't already.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book?

 

More links to peruse for Mecha ideas:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/14174-Robotech!

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/18111-Mecha-Modeling-Advice?highlight=Mecha

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/19411-Robot-Warriors-sample-mecha?highlight=Mecha