From bloodthirsty deity to nonbloodthirsty hero

[Vestnik]

Here's my conundrum.

 

I've been reading a bit of the mythology of the people who later collectively became known as the Aztecs (apparently they never called themselves that). The mythology is quite cool. As usual when reading this kind of thing, I begin to think about deriving character concepts from it -- it's like a reflex. So, I came up with the idea of a vaguely (very vaguely) Moon Knight-inspired hero who is a representative of Quetzalquotl, the feathered-serpent Azten god of the sun. I've written him up sans Disads and he is quite cool IMHO.

 

Now here is my issue. Using premodern cultures as sources for modern-day heroes is problematic at best (just look at Thor), because their ideas of what heroes were is not ours. This is especially true in the case of the Aztecs, given that their deities were quite blood-thirsty, what with their hunger for human sacrifices and all.

 

I am trying to rationalize how this Aztec deity could morph into a hero. I have a few ideas, but they all seem cheesy:

 

1. The Q the Aztecs worshipped wasn't the real Q (no Star Trek jokes please). He was an evil demon imposter.

 

2. Q had a change of heart for some reason (as when Marvel's Thor got mad when his worshippers killed a bunch of Christians -- totally out of character for the Thor of Norse myth of course. )

 

3. Q is still bloodthirsty, in addition to being a source of power for our hero, but the hero keeps the thirst under control, this possibly being a source of much Vampire the Masquerade-type angst.

 

So, does anybody have any ideas?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: From bloodthirsty deity to nonbloodthirsty hero

 

Quetzalcoatl/Kukulkan was one of the most benevolent deities of the Aztecs/Toltecs/Mayas, and what I've read of those cultures agrees that while his worshippers would sacrifice animals to him, Quetzalcoatl himself was held to oppose human sacrifice. I don't think you'll have much trouble using him.

[Vestnik]

Re: From bloodthirsty deity to nonbloodthirsty hero

 

I've read contradictory material on that (not surprising, since I'm sure his cult changed over the centuries). Some say he was given gladiatorial sacrifices; others say he opposed human sacrifice. In any case apparently the really blood-thirsty deities were the god of rain and the god of (I think) night. Might make good villains.

[Certified]

Re: From bloodthirsty deity to nonbloodthirsty hero

 

Quetzalcoatl/Kukulkan was one of the most benevolent deities of the Aztecs/Toltecs/Mayas' date=' and what I've read of those cultures agrees that while his worshippers would sacrifice animals to him, Quetzalcoatl himself was held to oppose human sacrifice. I don't think you'll have much trouble using him. [/quote']

 

Far more politely said that I could muster.

 

Linky

[Lord Liaden]

Re: From bloodthirsty deity to nonbloodthirsty hero

 

I've read contradictory material on that (not surprising' date=' since I'm sure his cult changed over the centuries). Some say he was given gladiatorial sacrifices; others say he opposed human sacrifice. In any case apparently the really blood-thirsty deities were the god of rain and the god of (I think) night. Might make good villains.[/quote']

 

Certainly there was change in Q's cult over time - all of the "final forms" of gods as we know them were products of cultural evolution - but the Aztecs adopted Quetzalcoatl from the Toltecs, and by that time his opposition to human sacrifice was explicit. Even if such sacrifices were a part of his past, his desire to help and protect mankind is almost universal in these traditions. Note that in Aztec myth Q was driven from Meso-America by his great rival Tezcatlipoca, who was his opposite in almost all personality traits and attributes. I've always thought that the fact the peace-loving god wasn't ascendant in the Aztec pantheon is significant.

 

BTW a powerful avatar of Tezcatlipoca is written up in Arcane Adversaries, and he is indeed an impressive villain.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: From bloodthirsty deity to nonbloodthirsty hero

 

Honestly, it could be as simple as mellowing with age. As he watches human societies evolve and advance, his own ideas of what he needs from them/for them is likely to change. If his enemies have long been defeated or dormant it wouldn't be necessary to keep up a warrior facade.

 

To quote Henry II from The Lion in Winter:

I've had no France to fight. In that lull, I've found how good it is to write a law... or make a tax more fair or sit in judgment to decide which peasant gets a cow. I tell you, there is nothing more important in the world.

 

Marvel's Thor has a pretty good reason for his change of temperament. Basically, he got out of control so Odin forced him to live as a human until he learned some humility. (Whether Odin was acting in character is another argument.)

[Vestnik]

Re: From bloodthirsty deity to nonbloodthirsty hero

 

Well I feel quite informed. Thanks guys!

[assault]

Re: From bloodthirsty deity to nonbloodthirsty hero

 

I've read contradictory material on that (not surprising' date=' since I'm sure his cult changed over the centuries). Some say he was given gladiatorial sacrifices; others say he opposed human sacrifice.[/quote']

 

Coming in a little belatedly...

 

The truth is what you say it is. If you say he opposed human sacrifice, he did, and claims to the contrary are wrong.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: From bloodthirsty deity to nonbloodthirsty hero

 

Simple: The myths were wrong.

 

He's actually benevolent or however you intend to play him, but he rarely if ever interacted with his followers, so therefore everything that we think we know about him is a lie, propaganda spat out by the priests in order to cow the populace into thinking he would smite them.

 

Or something of that nature.

[Vestnik]

Re: From bloodthirsty deity to nonbloodthirsty hero

 

Thanks for all the quick feedback. I really do look the character idea and power suite. Hopeful in some hypthetical future when I actually get to play one of these characters I make I can use him

 

I gave him a Multiform (into giant feathered serpent or giant South American eagle), a power I am normally loathe to use. I really never know how to use this power. My inner munchkin comes out.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: From bloodthirsty deity to nonbloodthirsty hero

 

Simple: The myths were wrong.

 

He's actually benevolent or however you intend to play him, but he rarely if ever interacted with his followers, so therefore everything that we think we know about him is a lie, propaganda spat out by the priests in order to cow the populace into thinking he would smite them.

 

Or something of that nature.

Are you calling the Aztecs liars?

 

That's a good way to get sacrificed...

[Evil Steve]

Re: From bloodthirsty deity to nonbloodthirsty hero

 

If I may offer an ultra nerd inspired solution

 

Years ago, I was watching an episode of Dr. Who, wherein he was visting the Aztecs. When one of the companions asked about the human sacrifice, a high preist responded

 

"The gods send us messengers, why should we not do the same?"

 

Not really bloodthirsty, so much as humans wanting to make absolutly sure that their prayers were heard.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: From bloodthirsty deity to nonbloodthirsty hero

 

Are you calling the Aztecs liars?

 

That's a good way to get sacrificed...

 

In the event I ever meet an ancient Aztec, I'll take that under consideration.

[Comic]

Re: From bloodthirsty deity to nonbloodthirsty hero

 

I favor the approach taken by Road to Eldorado: "Not the right time. No. The stars. Yes, the stars are not aligned. Who made the stars, after all? Why, us, the gods. We should bleeding well know when and if it's the right time, and now is not it."

 

Okay, I ad-libbed a bit.

[input.jack]

Re: From bloodthirsty deity to nonbloodthirsty hero

 

Are you calling the Aztecs liars?

 

That's a good way to get sacrificed...

 

Wearing the wrong HAT was a good way to get sacrificed!

[Certified]

Re: From bloodthirsty deity to nonbloodthirsty hero

 

Wearing the wrong HAT was a good way to get sacrificed!

 

You know ... *Looks down at the obsidian dagger by the alter* That's an Interesting picture you have by your name there Input.Jack ...

[The Arc]

Re: From bloodthirsty deity to nonbloodthirsty hero

 

Awhile back I worked on a super hero team called Team Mexico, and I created a super-hero called Aztec for the team. He was the son of the big Q via a mortal woman. Of course mom died in child birth, and he was raised by monks. Other than that he was pretty much a Thor homage. These would be one way around the "blood thirsty" aspect.

[Roth]

Re: From bloodthirsty deity to nonbloodthirsty hero

 

And you have to remember a lot of Aztecs sacrificed themselves so to speak. It was considered a great honour to be the sacrifice in some of the rituals. Of course many were sacrificed out of a sense of owing the gods something and many of the enemies taken in battle were also sacrificed*G*

[Metaphysician]

Re: From bloodthirsty deity to nonbloodthirsty hero

 

Actually, one of the players in a campaign I am in has Quetzlcoatl as a PC. He took the fairly straightforward route: Quetzlcoatl ( and some of the other gods ) actually *are* nice guys, who are entirely uninterested in human sacrifice. Tezcatlapoca just corrupted, killed, or drove off all of them, and set up a regime of bloodlust and death.