I am planning to run a Dark Champions game where the characters will be Police officers with limited metahuman powers. For various reasons I am going to run this set in an American city but as I am not an American there are a few questions I would appreciate the opionion of list members on.

1. What sort of Body armour would a detective wear on plain clothes duty?

2. Are there any restrictions on the sort of ammunition police officers are allowed to use ? Could they get into trouble for using none standard ammunition in shooting.

3. What level of equipment would detectives have available in the Office /Car if they are expecting trouble at an Arrest such as Long arms and heavier body armour?

Thanks for any answers

Re: US Police Equipment

 

Most cops do not wear body armor unless they expect a problem

 

I know that there is ammo restrictions, but I have no idea what they are or the issues they have if they brake it

 

I would imagine shotguns and bulletproof vests at the minimum

 

And I am fairly certain this changes by area

Re: US Police Equipment

 

1. What sort of Body armour would a detective wear on plain clothes duty?

 

Depending on department policy and expected threat level, none or the very least kind available. Probably a chest/back protector, if anything.

 

2. Are there any restrictions on the sort of ammunition police officers are allowed to use ? Could they get into trouble for using none standard ammunition in shooting.

 

Disintegrating rounds (such as Glazer Safety Slugs) are often recommended for use in populated areas. The round is lethal against unarmored targets (reduced penetration?) but will not continue through say, an interior wall and possibly injure/kill an unintended target. Softnose or hollowpoint ammunition might also be used as these tend to expand in the target and are unlikely to travel downrange to wound/kill a second person.

 

3. What level of equipment would detectives have available in the Office /Car if they are expecting trouble at an Arrest such as Long arms and heavier body armour?

 

In the car they might have only a radio to call for backup and possibly a shotgun. If they'd planned ahead they would certainly have more extensive armor, more "less lethal" tools (flash-bang grenades, teargas or beanbag rounds for the shotgun). If they were expecting stiff opposition, they might bring in the SWAT team.

 

This will vary from community to community. A large city's police department would have all the above equipment and scads more. Smaller communities will have less equipment, and very sparsely populated jurisdictions might just have Andy and Barney and little else.

Re: US Police Equipment

 

Most cops do not wear body armor unless they expect a problem

I disagree. The cops I know consider their vest part of the uniform.

 

Dark Champions covers body armor on pp 269-271. Most would have soft body armor as an inobvious, inaccessable focus.

 

I believe most urban departments use soft-nose bulletts now. They hit, flatten, and do not continue down range, a good thing for urban areas. Note: they will not bounce! They are designed to not ricochet, if the character wants some fancy banked trick shots he needs to pack some fully jacketed bullets.

 

Not that long ago full metal jacket was the standard, it stays in one piece in the body, and can be more easily removed by a doctor.

 

An officer is not likely to get into trouble for carrying a non-standard load, usually at most will be told to leave it at home. But remember every line-of-duty shooting, not where they hit someone, but where they fired the gun while on duty, will be investigated by a shooting review committee. If the bullet fired was a nonstandard load, they will want to know why the officer had it.

 

Dark Champions also has a policeman's belt on page 273, an example of the equiptment the officer will have without even returning to the car.

Re: US Police Equipment

 

Big variation from place to place:

 

1) In hazardous areas (you know, LA, DC) Body armor would be pretty likely, Level IIIA (good against handguns, not so much rifles). If there's one murder a year in the jurisdction, the officer might have armor in their trunk but not wear it.

 

2) Totally varies from place to place - the department sets the rules. Some specify fairly exotic (RBCD makes an armor-piercing frangible round, legal only for law-enforcement), other places have standard types they buy off-the-shelf, usually "truncated cone" fully-jacketed (mushroom on impact) or hollow-point (mushroom even more).

 

Nobody in real life uses banked shots, because ricochets are unpredictable. A bullet spinning at high speed hitting an object at an angle... umm, no.

 

Obviously if you want to go comic-book or camp, go for the pool-game shots.

 

3) Again, depends on the departments. In both rural areas and high-crime urban areas, a rifle is at least as likely as a shotgun - both for range and for anti-armor capability. The LAPD introduced a standard patrol rifle after a famous shooting involving armored criminals. If they aren't wearing armor, the officers would likely have armor in the car, as well as extra ammunition. The backup armor might be "SWAT-style" or "Riot-style," with leg and groin guards, arm guards, neck braces, and even helmets, though that's a lot for a patrol officer or detective to carry around.

Re: US Police Equipment

 

1. What sort of Body armour would a detective wear on plain clothes duty?

2. Are there any restrictions on the sort of ammunition police officers are allowed to use ? Could they get into trouble for using none standard ammunition in shooting.

3. What level of equipment would detectives have available in the Office /Car if they are expecting trouble at an Arrest such as Long arms and heavier body armour?

Thanks for any answers

 

1. The officers on 'plain clothes duty' that I know have a very special vest which they can throw on over their clothes, if the need to do so arrives. It's mesh and has all the qualities of a bullet proof vest. It also has the word 'Police' in big white letters on both the front and back.

 

2. Depends on the type of weapon they are using. Handguns, Rifles and Shotguns of all sorts can be used...as long as the department approves it.

 

3. Remember the vest I was telling you about? It also doubles as a 'duty belt'. Officers are required to carry the following: Firearm+Ammo, Police ID, Handcuffs, Pepper Spray, Radio, ASP/Baton, Flashlight, Latex Gloves etc

 

A lot plainclothes officers carry the following as well:

1. Backup weapon, usually attached to their ankle.

2. Two knifes: one in the front pocket and one tucked inside their vest.

3. Mini Binoculars just in case they can't get as close as they would like to and for times they need to read license plates and so forth.

 

And of course, everybody carry cellphones and digital cameras these days

Re: US Police Equipment

 

Nobody in real life uses banked shots' date=' because ricochets are unpredictable. A bullet spinning at high speed hitting an object at an angle... umm, no.[/quote']

Yes, I should have mentioned that. No one in their right mind would try a banked shot IRL, but depending on the tone of the campagine it might be "in genre," and the rules do specifically allow it if you have a skill level.

 

And of course' date=' everybody carry cellphones and digital cameras these days[/quote']

Good point. Police use to carry polaroid cameras in the car, to photograph accident scenes befor the cars were moved for example, but by now I suppose all departments have gone digital.

Re: US Police Equipment

 

Police use to carry polaroid cameras in the car' date=' to photograph accident scenes befor the cars were moved for example, but by now I suppose all departments have gone digital.[/quote']

 

Polaroids might still be carried since, as an ongoing chemical process, they are extremely hard to fake, unlike digital. Courts prefer polaroids as evidence for this reason.

Re: US Police Equipment

 

Rounds one could get into trouble for:

 

It's unlikely, but any round that would put the practice of law enforcement into disrepute might cause the user trouble.

 

In the past, I've heard of cases being investigated because law enforcement used: a shoulder-mounted weapon, anti-tank weapon, dragonsbreath or thermite round (which could be fired by something as small as a 10 mm weapon), depleted uranium rounds, chemical substances (tear gas, eg), an automatic shotgun, or fully automatic weapon.

 

Some crowd control weapons also cause issues or controversy, not least among those in the crowds.

 

Even mere tazers can cause problems.

 

It's not what you use, it's who publishes the videotape of you using it, generally, that draws flack... Which reminds me, law enforcement use of anti-aircraft weapons, likely to be frowned upon.

 

But yes, what is used, if it's not a standard round, eventually someone will draw attention to it and try to make it an issue.

Re: US Police Equipment

 

Also remember requirements and available equipment vary in direct proportion to the size of the force in question.

 

In small (especially rural) law enforcement organizations many officers actually own their own cars, own their own firearms and purchase their own ammunition and body armor. They usually get a set amount of money each year to buy new/maintain equipment and can be reimbursed for expenditures. They also tend to carry the arsenal in the trunk since they routinely operate far from support.

 

I have only personal known 3 in law enforcement. One a Sheriff in rural Arkansas. One a patrol officer in Burlington Washington. One a Patrol Officer in San Jose, Ca.

 

The Sheriff was pretty much as I outlined above. Owned most of his own gear.

 

The PO in Burlington, Wa never really carried more than his pistol and mace. And never wore the vest but had it in the trunk along with the shotgun. I don’t know if ammunition was issued or if they had any requirements.

 

The PO in San Jose, Ca always wore the vest (policy I think). Always carried pistol, mace and a taser. Had a shotgun in the front seat. And they carried a rifle (I never knew type/size) in the trunk plus more body armor. And always patrolled with a partner. They always had to account for every round (which was issued) and had to turn in / check out the shotgun, rifle and ammunition every shift. They did keep the pistol and its ammunition.

 

 

In all, I don’t think civil law enforcement in the US has an actual recognized standard.

Re: US Police Equipment

 

That's because they're run by the state government, generally.

Re: US Police Equipment

 

That's because they're run by the state government' date=' generally.[/quote']

 

Or a state standard either.

 

All state governments don't necessarily regulate those details either. They may set a state standard for the State Troopers, but they won't set specific requirements for each city or county law officers.

 

As an example they may outlaw a specific type of ammunition all together or recommend the use of one. But very very seldom will they make one required.

 

The big reason is if the State sets a requirement and mandates item A must be used, they have to fund it. Not to mention they become the primary for a lawsuit if something goes wrong.

Re: US Police Equipment

 

 

 

In all, I don’t think civil law enforcement in the US has an actual recognized standard.

 

True, true! At least in my experience...

 

I've spent the last year helping my department write new and update policies in general. After Virgina Tech, we spent a lot of time discussing rifles. Funding, training and the types of rifles permitted were issues we had to write up nearly from scratch. The .308 was favored by some. The .223 by others. It took several months just to figure which way we wanted to go. The .223 was picked because of familiarity-lots of former military types in our department.

1. What sort of Body armour would a detective wear on plain clothes duty?

 

Usually a class II ballistic vest, while patrolmen will be wearing class III vests and may, at their personal discretion, add plates. However, if they are going to kick down doors or expect trouble the detectives will don the same kind of vest the swat team wears (the big thick ones worn over the clothes with ballistic plate inserts.

 

2. Are there any restrictions on the sort of ammunition police officers are allowed to use ? Could they get into trouble for using none standard ammunition in shooting.

 

The answer to these questions is: "hell yes!"

 

Police departments select standard loads and not using them can result in serious disciplinary action (incl. potential dismissal). This is a lawsuit issue and departments pay out the nose for liability insurance. They don't play games with it. Another concern is public relations.

 

Unless the players are on a warrants squad or a special tactical team they won't be issued (or reimbursed for) something other than the department's approved load. On the other hand, that can be quite good ammo in some departments.

 

For instance: the bellevue police department in washington state issues "golden saber" rounds, which are lethal as hell. The outward justification: they stop in the target and therefore reduce the risk to bystanders (no passing through and killing old ladies or children on the other side).

 

The fact that they put targets down hard and result in more fatalities than standard ammo is just a "happy incidental."

 

 

 

3. What level of equipment would detectives have available in the Office /Car if they are expecting trouble at an Arrest such as Long arms and heavier body armour?

Thanks for any answers

 

The answer is whatever heavy equipment the department has on hand. Shotguns are a definate, heavy body-armor highly probable (esp. in medium to large departments, but small departments generally have it on hand as well), carbines are a possibility. They'll also have access to tasers, pepper-spray, and the like.

 

But keep in mind, a group of detectives expecting serious trouble probably won't be going in alone - they'll ask for a tactical team (warrants or swat) to back them up or do the take down for them, and unless its time sensitive or all hell has broken loose in the city they'll probably get it.

 

At the very least patrolmen will probably be brought in to bolster the ranks or seal the area. And big cities often have dedicated warrants squads. That's not always good for gaming (or television drama), however, and departmental cultures do vary. In New York, for instance, the metro squads often do their own high-risk take downs.

 

In small to medium departments people sometimes do more than one job (negotiators, swat and warrants, bomb squad, and initial crime scene guys are sometimes full time patrolmen and detectives who are on call for when that special skill is needed- and often have THAT gear in their trunk). In fact, if you want them to have cool gear, and individual schtick, I recommend having a medium department where people do double-duty on special squads so you PCs can be cross trained and cross equipped.

 

The detective who doubles as a swat officer in a medium department (say 200 officers) could then (within reason)have tear gas or an MP5 or a sniper rifle in his trunk, the forensics guy can have a crime scene kit, the warrants guy can have a hand held door ram and a shotgun ramped for slugs (to blow bolts off of metal doors, etc). I know an officer who doubles as a police marksmen and, when he's working, has his rifle and other swat gear is in his trunk.

 

Keep in mind, however, they won't be able to whip this stuff out willy-nilly - they'll have to argue it was justified and that they used good judgment that a "reasonable person" would have used. A detective squad with moonlighting pair of swat and warrants squad guys are going to have to make a good argument for why they took swiss-cheese makers (SMGs) in to redocorate the perps house if it wasn't a swat job.

Re: US Police Equipment

 

In all, I don’t think civil law enforcement in the US has an actual recognized standard.

 

The US, no. Individual departments, normally yes.

Re: US Police Equipment

 

The US' date=' no. Individual departments, normally yes.[/quote']

 

Cool, thanks. I was pretty sure, but I can't claim to be an authority...

Re: US Police Equipment

 

Well, I live in Illinois... and I have a lot of cop friends, and I think most of it is rrally covered already.

 

In the Chicago area, detectives have little to do with SWAT stuff. many of them carry very little. Some of the old-timers carry j-frame smiths.

 

Vests are standard equipment for patrol officers. Pistols tend to be 9mm semi-automatics, but most departments also allow .40 S&W, with a few allowing .45 ACP. All are required to be double action, some requiring Double-Action Only. Hollow-points from Winchester and Federal are most commonly issued as ammunition in some form of Jackketed Hollow-Point. Glocks are also common, along with Sig-Sauers, S&W semis, and Berettas. A few wheelguns left out there, though.

 

Shotguns are becoming less common and have been removed from a lot of patrol cars. Some are being replaced with rifles, usually of the AR variety. This is an anti-gun state, so all sorts of stupid notions are put together by the legislature. (snipped a rant regarding this)

Re: US Police Equipment

 

I work in downtown Chicago and take the train. The police officer has a bullet proof vest, gun, radio, mace, and about 30 extra pounds.

Re: US Police Equipment

 

One of my colleagues works in an undercover unit. Plainclothes for sure. One of the things he carries all the time is a 'wire'. A recording device he tucks in his boot, then runs the wire up his pant leg, up his shirt and then attached to his chest. He's also a walking arsenal or has immediate access to all sorts of weapons. I tease him about his arms being too small...they are not...

 

One's body is also a 'piece of equipment'. Physical fitness is certainly something everyone tries to possess. I'm in the company of blackbelts in this or that, marathon runners and all round sport's freaks. OK, my arms are small; but I'll catch you in any foot pursuit...

Re: US Police Equipment

 

I remember decades ago the public debate over ammunition, as police forces were starting to deal with an increase in the use of hollow point rounds by criminals.

 

There were active discussions of banning the stuff, often in pro-gun states. The purists didn't like people messing with their idea of what a bullet should look like.

 

Then a few people started looking at the effects: more stopping power, fewer pass-through related injuries, no perceptible reduction in accuracy, greater effective firepower and better control.

 

So the police began adopting new rounds. Generally they went with flat, not hollow... because of the disrepute hollow points were in at the time.

 

Strange how things turn around like that.

 

Now, if you want to be a bad guy, you carry rounds designed to pass through multiple targets, and bounce around a little, so you do more damage to armored targets and it's more dangerous to be anywhere near where you're aiming.

Re: US Police Equipment

 

Emphasis added.

I work in downtown Chicago and take the train. The police officer has a bullet proof vest' date=' gun, radio, mace, and about [b']30 extra pounds[/b].

 

Sounds like a rent-a-cop to me.

Re: US Police Equipment

 

Well, I live in Illinois

 

 

This is an anti-gun state, so all sorts of stupid notions are put together by the legislature. (snipped a rant regarding this)

[hijack]

 

I live in Illinois as well, and would say that the STATE is pro-gun, but the CITY of Chicago is vehemently anti-gun... and there are enough folks in Chicago to tip the balance.

 

We'd have concealed carry if Illinois could kick Chicago out of the state. When it comes to a vote, Chicago votes overwhelmingly against, the rest of the state overwhelmingly for.

 

[/hijack]

Re: US Police Equipment

 

[hijack]

We'd have concealed carry if Illinois could kick Chicago out of the state. When it comes to a vote' date=' Chicago votes overwhelmingly against, the rest of the state overwhelmingly for.[/quote']

 

Tell you what Scuba, you nearly get Cheney-ed twice by people being irresponsible with guns then we can talk about the necessity of "a well regulated militia".

 

[/hijack]

Re: US Police Equipment

 

Emphasis added.

Sounds like a rent-a-cop to me.

Nope, one of Illinois's finest. But his accent indicates he grew up in the southern part of the state.

Re: US Police Equipment

 

First, let's not turn this into a political debate on gun control. That we can argue in NGD or PMs. Being "Cheneyed" (funny, btw, making him a verb.. hehe) is a matter of competence, not rights.

 

Chicago is part of Illinois, even if it acts like a city-state. Good point, though.

 

If we want to further debate intellectually on the whole issue, please start a thread. Link it here. I'll come. I always enjoy a debate, especially when it begets further understanding from both points of view.