Bewitched "time stop"

[Catseye]

Re: Bewitched "time stop"

 

I think that what you have in the Until book is a nascent form of what developed into ESB in the speedster. It makes an inetresting read and its a fascinating study in just how far a GM can "twist" the system, but I don't like it myself as it adds too much rules baggage. Unless super-speed was going to be a majorv part of your game I think its over-kill.

 

For what I'm doing for Piper (in another thread) I really like the idea of TimeStop being an area effect move of everything effected into the future, right after the TimeStop ends. That you see them frozen in place is just an SFX. This works really really well for a true statsis type of time stop.

 

Otherwise, if things can be moved or effected, the other suggestion in that thread of an area effect entangle seems pretty close. Id never give a player that, personally, though cause its way too powerful.

[GamePhil]

Re: Bewitched "time stop"

 

I've never understood how EDM was supposed to be a solution for this kind of thing. Okay, you've gone to another dimension where no one but you can move. So from your point of view everyone has frozen and you can do whatever you want. However from everyone elses point of view, you simply vanish. And presumably show back up at some point, having done some stuff to some different people in a different dimension. While your friends were in the middle of a fight.

 

Not sure how to answer that, since I'm pretty sure you're being facetious at some level (that is, I expect you understand the logic but reject it and are making light), but I'll take you literally. You're transporting to a dimension that is defined as interacting with the one you came from, but where time is flowing much faster, not an actual other place. This dimension must be defined as working that way by the GM before the Power actually functions correctly.

 

I only so define that dimension under certain circumstances, I'd almost always go the "reason by effect" route. But it works well for my time travel adventurers, in part because they all have access to it sometimes, so there's no imbalance. Otherwise, if someone insisted on buying it against my saying no, I might do something like you describe (more likely would not run for that person, but yours is more entertaining).

[archermoo]

Re: Bewitched "time stop"

 

Not sure how to answer that' date=' since I'm pretty sure you're being facetious at some level (that is, I expect you understand the logic but reject it and are making light), but I'll take you literally. You're transporting to a dimension that is defined as interacting with the one you came from, but where time is flowing much faster, not an actual other place. This dimension must be defined as working that way by the GM before the Power actually functions correctly.[/quote']

 

Not being at all facetious. And your explaination doesn't make any sense to me. You use EDM to move to a dimension that really isn't another dimension? If it isn't a different dimension, you can't use EDM to get there. If it is a different dimension, then you aren't in this one anymore.

 

If you're talking a dimension that allows you to view the dimension that you came from, but with you moving at an accelerated rate, were I to allow this in the first place at the very least I'd require that you purchase the Interdimensional Advantage on any Powers (or anthing else) that you wanted to be able to use to interact with your home dimension.

[Catseye]

Re: Bewitched "time stop"

 

If you're talking a dimension that allows you to view the dimension that you came from, but with you moving at an accelerated rate, were I to allow this in the first place at the very least I'd require that you purchase the Interdimensional Advantage on any Powers (or anthing else) that you wanted to be able to use to interact with your home dimension.

 

...

 

However from everyone elses point of view, you simply vanish. And presumably show back up at some point, having done some stuff to some different people in a different dimension. While your friends were in the middle of a fight.

 

yes, thats all part of the "Enter The Speed Zone" write up in Speedster. The dimension runs at a speed thats sub-segment so although you do "vanish" and "return" you do it at a relative speed so fast that no one else even notices. You DO need to buy the inter dimensional senses to perceive your original dimension and you DO need to buy the advantages to affect cross-dimension if you ant to do anything other then look or move.

 

As I say, its very complete. Just also very complex.

[Catseye]

Re: Bewitched "time stop"

 

Not all witches' date=' just the Charmed Ones were immune to each other's powers (unless they turned evil).[/quote']

 

Actually, more powerful demons were also immune.

 

I solved this in my AOE Time Travel version with "Can be avoided with a skill roll (Magic)"

[archermoo]

Re: Bewitched "time stop"

 

yes, thats all part of the Enter The Speed Dimension write up in Speedster. The dimension runs at a speed thats sub-segment so although you do "vanish" and "return" you do it at a relative speed so fast that no one else even notices. You DO need to buy the inter dimensional senses to perceive your original dimension and you DO need to buy the advantages to affect cross-dimension if you ant to do anything other then look or move.

 

As I say, its very complete. Just also very complex.

 

But I wasn't addressing Enter The Speed Zone. I was addressing builds like the one Gideon quoted from the USPD. Nothing about needing Transdimensional on any powers or senses. Just go to another dimension that works differently and somehow your also really in your home dimension too.

 

Never liked those builds, doubt I ever will. One of these days I need to sit down and read the Ultimate Speedster though.

[GamePhil]

Re: Bewitched "time stop"

 

Not being at all facetious. And your explaination doesn't make any sense to me. You use EDM to move to a dimension that really isn't another dimension? If it isn't a different dimension, you can't use EDM to get there. If it is a different dimension, then you aren't in this one anymore.

 

Ah, very good, then. Page 173, 5ER, under "Other Uses":

You can also use Extra-Dimensional Movement to simulate any situation in which a character is in a different state of being, cannot interact with the "real world", or is any place which is inaccessible to others.

 

Traveling to the "dimension" where time is frozen for everyone else is one of the examples in the same paragraph. It's in the official rules: the Dimension in the title for the Power does not mean a literal place. I had assumed you were simply rejecting that section, because of course you read and memorized the entire tome like the rest of us.

 

What?

 

If you're talking a dimension that allows you to view the dimension that you came from, but with you moving at an accelerated rate, were I to allow this in the first place at the very least I'd require that you purchase the Interdimensional Advantage on any Powers (or anthing else) that you wanted to be able to use to interact with your home dimension.

 

Well, yeah, you are still in another "dimension". And, well, yeah, to everything including "were I to allow this in the first place". It's neither for everyone nor for every campaign.

[GamePhil]

Re: Bewitched "time stop"

 

But I wasn't addressing Enter The Speed Zone. I was addressing builds like the one Gideon quoted from the USPD. Nothing about needing Transdimensional on any powers or senses. Just go to another dimension that works differently and somehow your also really in your home dimension too.

 

Did it say you didn't need those advantages to affect/sense the "real" world? Explicitely? Sorry, unpacked everything (I thought) and USPD isn't here, so I genuingly don't know. I always considered that implied by the fact that you used EDM. XDM. Whatever. to reach it.

[archermoo]

Re: Bewitched "time stop"

 

Traveling to the "dimension" where time is frozen for everyone else is one of the examples in the same paragraph. It's in the official rules: the Dimension in the title for the Power does not mean a literal place. I had assumed you were simply rejecting that section, because of course you read and memorized the entire tome like the rest of us.

 

What?

 

Nope, just the ones that I use most frequently.

 

But now that I am aware of it, I can now with full knowledge feel safe in ignoring it.

[archermoo]

Re: Bewitched "time stop"

 

Did it say you didn't need those advantages to affect/sense the "real" world? Explicitely? Sorry' date=' unpacked everything (I thought) and USPD isn't here, so I genuingly don't know. I always considered that implied by the fact that you used EDM. XDM. Whatever. to reach it.[/quote']

 

The description of the power states that the user can stop time and take whatever actions they want. And makes no mention of needing to purchase Transdimensional on anything.

[Catseye]

Re: Bewitched "time stop"

 

But I wasn't addressing Enter The Speed Zone. I was addressing builds like the one Gideon quoted from the USPD.

 

Well as I stated to begin with, I think what you have there is a nascent (from the word natal, meaning newly born) version of what *became* ESZ with more thought.

[archermoo]

Re: Bewitched "time stop"

 

Well as I stated to begin with' date=' I think what you have there is a nascent (from the word natal, meaning newly born) version of what *became* ESZ with more thought.[/quote']

 

You are prolly correct.

[Gideon]

Re: Bewitched "time stop"

 

The description of the power states that the user can stop time and take whatever actions they want. And makes no mention of needing to purchase Transdimensional on anything.

 

While you are right and the description of the power does say that, the build of the power doesn't support it.

 

That is why I said it is debatable whether or not you should be able to interact with "real time" without having Transdimensional powers. Granted due to the SFX of this power if I were ever to allow it in a game (yeah, right) I wouldn't require the character to have transdimensional on his senses, only on everything else he would need in order to manipulate things in "real time"

 

Otherwise its just a super-cheesy teleport substitute.

[GamePhil]

Re: Bewitched "time stop"

 

But now that I am aware of it' date=' I can now with full knowledge feel safe in ignoring it. [/quote']

 

Yeah, I actually like it, and in practice usually ignore it myself.

[OddHat]

Re: Bewitched "time stop"

 

Not being at all facetious. And your explaination doesn't make any sense to me. You use EDM to move to a dimension that really isn't another dimension? If it isn't a different dimension, you can't use EDM to get there. If it is a different dimension, then you aren't in this one anymore.

 

If you're talking a dimension that allows you to view the dimension that you came from, but with you moving at an accelerated rate, were I to allow this in the first place at the very least I'd require that you purchase the Interdimensional Advantage on any Powers (or anthing else) that you wanted to be able to use to interact with your home dimension.

 

As Steve has pointed out with Enter the Speed Zone, Enter the Microverse, Enter the Macroverse, and Enter the Mind Zone, it's a use of Extra-Dimensional Movement that actually represents a change in frame of reference rather than an actual other dimension; so yes, you're moving to a dimension that isn't. The "Enter the _______" powers are in Ultimate books rather than the core rules for good reason; they're potential game breakers. However, for the purposes of something like Time Stop (also a potential game breaker) they remain a pretty elegant solution.

[Catseye]

Re: Bewitched "time stop"

 

However' date=' for the purposes of something like Time Stop (also a potential game breaker) they remain a pretty elegant solution.[/quote']

 

Elegance is in the eye of the beholder.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Bewitched "time stop"

 

...One of these days I need to sit down and read the Ultimate Speedster though.

 

Yep, It's a quick read.