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Greeter

6th Ed Champions Universe

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Greetings All,

 

Will the Champions Universe simply be updated to the new rules of 6th Ed, or will there be a new Champions Universe (such as the dramatic change from 4th to 5th Ed)?

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Re: 6th Ed Champions Universe

 

We plan to publish a new Champions Universe for 6E. Changes/updates to the overall setting are primarily going to depend on reflecting the Champions Online MMO take on the setting, since Cryptic Studios now owns the Champions IP -- but of course, since an MMO can only cover so much ground, that leaves plenty of territory where we'll be able to do whatever we want. ;)

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Re: 6th Ed Champions Universe

 

Follow up question

 

A while back you developed a timeline for the products for 5th Ed, going from Atlantean Age (or earlier) to Star Hero. Are you still going to adhere to that product timeline?

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Re: 6th Ed Champions Universe

 

This is only my impression based on observation of information Cryptic Studios has released on their Champions Online website, and the post-Cryptic books published so far by Hero Games; but from that evidence I don't expect Cryptic to make more than minor changes to the established history of the Champions Universe. However, they look to be greatly elaborating existing elements of the setting that weren't developed before, and adding a bunch of new stuff. :)

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Re: 6th Ed Champions Universe

 

To a large extent that is a fair assessment -- after all, why buy something just to tear it apart? There are certainly some changes; for example, in the 6E CU Shadow Destroyer shows up in 2001 and the "real" Dr. Destroyer is going to remain in hiding until Cryptic decides it's time for him to come out and play.

 

And believe me, that's not the only plot they have going on behind the scenes. They seem to be doing an excellent job of "metaplotting" the MMO, coming up with intriguing backstories to explain what's going on and eventually lead to expansions and updates and such. As luck would have it, some of them dovetail nicely with books we were already considering doing. :sneaky:

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Re: 6th Ed Champions Universe

 

To a large extent that is a fair assessment -- after all' date=' why buy something just to tear it apart? There are certainly some changes; for example, in the 6E CU Shadow Destroyer shows up in 2001 and the "real" Dr. Destroyer is going to remain in hiding until Cryptic decides it's time for him to come out and play.[/quote']

 

Oooh... that's actually pretty intriguing. So Shadow Destroyer isn't just some "johnny-come-lately," but has been THE Doctor Destroyer of the new millennium. All the preparations and improvements Albert Zerstoiten has been making while he was presumed dead will probably come down on SD's head in a big way when he announces his return. Of course PC heroes (PnP and MMO) are likely to get caught in between them... :eg:

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Re: 6th Ed Champions Universe

 

And believe me' date=' that's not the only plot they have going on behind the scenes. They seem to be doing an excellent job of "metaplotting" the MMO, coming up with intriguing backstories to explain what's going on and eventually lead to expansions and updates and such. As luck would have it, some of them dovetail nicely with books we were already considering doing. :sneaky:[/quote']

 

Do you happen to know if the overarcing plot from DEMON: Servants Of Darkness is still on the itinerary? I'm not asking how Cryptic plans to run it or if the details have been changed, just whether they're going to put it in the MMO.

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Re: 6th Ed Champions Universe

 

Sorry, but I'm not at liberty to reveal any details (and heck, I don't necessarily know any). I only mentioned the Shadow Destroyer thing because I'd think Cryptic's intent is pretty obvious from the contents of BotD.

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Re: 6th Ed Champions Universe

 

I was thinking about CO and its relation to Champions PnP ... with some of the larger storylines in the MMORPG, are there plans to make these into adventures for Champions PnP? Or at the very least, some PDFs?

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Re: 6th Ed Champions Universe

 

Will the new books be 6th edition compatible? How is that being handled? I'm sure there are people like me who don't want to invest in something that will be obsolete in 12 months time.

 

My understanding is that most of the books the Hero is putting out between now and when 6th edition comes out are less rules intense books and while they are being written for 5th edition, should also be usable with 6th. And keep in mind that just because 6th edition comes out that doesn't mean that all of the 5th edition books are suddenly obsolete. While Hero is certainly planning on re-releasing 6th edition version of existing 5th edition books not all of the 5th edition books will be re-released. Nor will all of the 6th edition books they release be re-released 5th edition books.

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Re: 6th Ed Champions Universe

 

Well, I have books going back to the earliest days of Champions, long superceded by newer publications, but I don't consider them "obsolete." I still use many elements from them in my own campaigns. I like being able to mix and match elements of the setting from past and present to get the kind of world I want to play in. Despite differences in editions of the game they're all still fundamentally HERO, so making them work together is much easier than adapting something from another game.

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Re: 6th Ed Champions Universe

 

...And keep in mind that just because 6th edition comes out that doesn't mean that all of the 5th edition books are suddenly obsolete...

 

That was true for Champions to 5th edition, but, 5th to 6th edition is a remarkable departure with several fundamental changes. No "build" will survive. Basic concepts are changing or even going away. Some I could care less about (like COM) - others are much more disruptive.

 

Book of the Machine sounds like it will have a lot of character and equipment builds in it. I would assume they would target designs for 6th and give stats in an appendix for 5th. For the first color book I would expect that especially if it is a harbinger of what is to come. I would want it to be 6th edition centric because I think the changes proposed are fantastic and I want the company to show equal enthusiasm. Even though 6th edition is not out yet it will be. Let's face it: Steve Long is a Remorseless Writing Robot.

 

From what I can tell, of the changes as discussed, all of the books of vehicles, characters, powers and equipment are all essentially in need of reworking by me, the consumer, to use them in the new edition. To me that means obsolete. Maybe you have a different definition - which is fine. If I have to do work to get them to be useful I have no other word than obsolete to describe them.

 

I can make anything in those older books just from a description (ah the power of the Hero System.) I have them because they save time. Since I intend on going to 6th edition I am not going to buy new books that won't help me save time. For me their value is pretty simple and very profound: I have very limited time which means my free time is very valuable. If I have to invest 3+ hours of time to convert the data to 6th edition then that is a big loss to me.

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Re: 6th Ed Champions Universe

 

That was true for Champions to 5th edition' date=' but, 5th to 6th edition is a remarkable departure with several fundamental changes. No "build" will survive. Basic concepts are changing or even going away. Some I could care less about (like COM) - others are much more disruptive.[/quote']

 

Nothing is set in stone and you cannot take anything you read in the 6E forums as "Fact" or "Actual Changes"

 

To do so is a grievous mistake of the tallest order. Steve hasn't even started writing the new edition yet.

 

So no, the Book Of The Machine is not written for 6 with stats for 5 in the back or anything even remotely close. It's written with the 5th Revised Rules FOR the 5th Revised Rules.

 

 

I swear, where people come up with some of this stuff boggles me.

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Re: 6th Ed Champions Universe

 

Book of the Machine sounds like it will have a lot of character and equipment builds in it. I would assume they would target designs for 6th and give stats in an appendix for 5th. For the first color book I would expect that especially if it is a harbinger of what is to come. I would want it to be 6th edition centric because I think the changes proposed are fantastic and I want the company to show equal enthusiasm. Even though 6th edition is not out yet it will be. Let's face it: Steve Long is a Remorseless Writing Robot.

 

That he may be, but he's also made it clear that BOTM will be statted for Fifth Edition, not Sixth. Based on his comments, I'm not sure Steve has even started reading the 6E feedback threads. He definitely hasn't started writing the new rules, though.

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Re: 6th Ed Champions Universe

 

I swear' date=' where people come up with some of this stuff boggles me.[/quote']

 

I'm voicing a concern - seriously, what bad manners. This is an open forum. Too bad you don't like what I have to say. So take your boggled mind and march off.

 

I would bet many of those changes discussed will become reality. The fact is, even with all the discussion mayhem, most of them make sense.

 

2nd - Steve's been at this for a year now. 6th edition is not years away - the man is a writing machine. Every time he's had one of these discussions it was not long after that a new book was out.

 

My concern is with the new edition is coming a new direction and I don't want to invest in something that isn't going to support it. That is not unreasonable. I found your comment rude and unjustified. :mad:

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Re: 6th Ed Champions Universe

 

I'm voicing a concern - seriously, what bad manners. This is an open forum. Too bad you don't like what I have to say. So take your boggled mind and march off.

 

I would bet many of those changes discussed will become reality. The fact is, even with all the discussion mayhem, most of them make sense.

 

2nd - Steve's been at this for a year now. 6th edition is not years away - the man is a writing machine. Every time he's had one of these discussions it was not long after that a new book was out.

 

My concern is with the new edition is coming a new direction and I don't want to invest in something that isn't going to support it. That is not unreasonable. I found your comment rude and unjustified. :mad:

Well, your post was a bit sweeping and how you said it was not that you were airing a concern but were speaking from accepted facts.

 

G-A was correct, 6th hasn't been written, nothing has been publicly made open as to what is changing, and you were flat out wrong in your description on what Book of the Machine was going to contain.

 

TB

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Re: 6th Ed Champions Universe

 

I'm voicing a concern - seriously, what bad manners. This is an open forum. Too bad you don't like what I have to say. So take your boggled mind and march off.

 

I would bet many of those changes discussed will become reality. The fact is, even with all the discussion mayhem, most of them make sense.

 

2nd - Steve's been at this for a year now. 6th edition is not years away - the man is a writing machine. Every time he's had one of these discussions it was not long after that a new book was out.

 

My concern is with the new edition is coming a new direction and I don't want to invest in something that isn't going to support it. That is not unreasonable. I found your comment rude and unjustified. :mad:

 

Teflon Billy covered the situation pretty clearly - your entire post presented as fact (not opinion or concern) a number of simply wrong things.

 

Steve has said many times in many places that he will not start writing 6E until this spring. None of the books created to date have ever once mentioned using supposed 6E rules. He's made it abundantly clear that the 6E Forums are ideas, thoughts, suggestions and non-official.

 

You aren't the first, and likely won't be the last, person on these boards to assume something about 6E that's based completely on non-fact and conjecture. It should be avoided, it just causes problems and confusion.

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