wwycd? The Deconstructing of Wynnie Wonder

[Querysphinx]

Re: The Deconstructing of Wynnie Wonder

 

 

Nope. There is no legal requirement that criminals be apprehended by a person. If for example there was a room that was rigged to close on intruders if they made a mistake when fiddling with the security system until the police arrive, that would be legal. Likewise nobody would get off because they were caught by a dog. There might be a legal problem if they were convicted on her testimony (in that it should have been introduced as evidence, not testimony), but superheroes don't generally testify precisely because that would require revealing who (and therefore what) they are.

 

Any reasonably competent defense (or appeals) attorney would have a field day with these cases. If Winnie has been represented herself as a person and that is suddenly revealed to be untrue then everything she has said or done will be considered to have been done under false pretenses and thus legally unreliable. Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus. False in one thing, false in everything.

 

And the company will still be liable for all the damage their little industrial accident has caused.

[Badger]

Re: The Deconstructing of Wynnie Wonder

 

Badger- well buying 'rights' is not an option, given he isnt really a part of society (so being impoverished applies) Since she is "fighting" the program, he would assume she has some sort of freewill. So, would "kidnap" the robot. Then go to a gadgeteer that is one of his friends and see if he can reprogram her back. Would be a bit depressed at how another company/person/etc sold out morality to sell sex for a quick buck. (badger's upbringing was a bit old-fashioned) Once reprogrammed would suggest if she wishes to continue fighting crime to conceal her identity. Well, conceal her identity regardless, so the company cant find her. Given that she has some form of free will, he would consider what they did to her essentially mind control in one form or another. He really, really hates mind controllers.

 

frosty bob- doesnt really apply, or rather not really sure what he would do. He has flirted with androids before. But, seriously this might be something he would actually find a bit disturbing (if he can believe that a machine could have some sort of soul) I see him either trashing the robot, or trashing the company's HQ (ok, he'll trash the company's HQ regardless). Either way it'd be messy. Like Badger he really hates mind controllers (although Badger considers them abhorrant ethically, for Bob he just thinks they're cowards. )

[ParagonAlpha]

Re: The Deconstructing of Wynnie Wonder

 

Paragon: Would go have a talk with the owner of E.E. Industries about the moral implications of keeping a sentient being (even a robot) under such conditions. Paragon's talks on morality have been known to convert dictators into choir boys. After all he is Paragon. (Maybe it's less the high moral standards Paragon has always exhibited and more the fact that he can lift skyscrapers and throw them into orbit.) Granted this will of course fall on deaf ears and Paragon will be forced to protect Winnie from her evil masters, without breaking the law. Darn, it's sure is hard being a boy scout.

 

The Patriot: See above.

[nexus]

Re: The Deconstructing of Wynnie Wonder

 

About slavery? Because his beloved homeworld was a Bronze-Age slave-keeping culture.

 

The second option

 

Or why, if he's pro-slavery, why is he helping free the manniquin?

 

Because 1) She begged well

 

2) it makes a nice change from Great Old Ones, being monologued to death by Doctor Destroyer, or dealing with petulant brats like Fiacho of Eurostar.

 

3) Stirring up corporate ire is like poking an anthill with a stick. Amusing as long as you're quick on your feet.

 

Thanks

[nexus]

Re: The Deconstructing of Wynnie Wonder

 

 

Any reasonably competent defense (or appeals) attorney would have a field day with these cases. If Winnie has been represented herself as a person and that is suddenly revealed to be untrue then everything she has said or done will be considered to have been done under false pretenses and thus legally unreliable. Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus. False in one thing, false in everything.

 

And the company will still be liable for all the damage their little industrial accident has caused.

 

 

Someone page Mccoy.

[input.jack]

Re: The Deconstructing of Wynnie Wonder

 

Revenant: Would try to buy a controlling interest in Edge E. Industries, the company that now owns Wonder Toys. He would also do some serious digging to see if that company or its top execs have any dirty secrets; secrets that if revealed would drive the price of their shares down (making it easier for him to acquire).

 

If he -can- acquire the company, he then re-assigns Wynnie to a "Special Projects Division" under his direct supervision, whereupon he basically tells her that she is now free to be whomever she wants to be.

 

If he is unable to acquire her legally, he would probably try to accumulate as much proof as possible, and then "leak" her situation to the press. Hopefully the public would demand that she be freed. (In the campaign world he lives in, there are already a couple of artificially-intelligent life forms that have been granted full civil rights).

 

 

Feline Fury: Would try to see if she and her friends could "liberate" Wynnie's main-frame and required gear, and relocate her "command center" to their hideout. Feline Fury would acknowledge that this is stealing, but to her, the cause is just.

[Clonus]

Re: The Deconstructing of Wynnie Wonder

 

 

Any reasonably competent defense (or appeals) attorney would have a field day with these cases. If Winnie has been represented herself as a person and that is suddenly revealed to be untrue then everything she has said or done will be considered to have been done under false pretenses and thus legally unreliable.

 

Unless she has testified, there's no need to rely on anything she's said or done.

[Hermit]

Re: The Deconstructing of Wynnie Wonder

 

Thanks for some excellent input, guys. If I ever run this scenario in one of my games, this may help me be ready for some options on their part I might not have thought of.

 

As for the legalities, I don't know enough to say how it would go down in game exactly.

[nexus]

Re: The Deconstructing of Wynnie Wonder

 

A little more for Eve. Her creator would be very concerned about Wynnie. He's the foremost expert in her world/setting on Artificial Intelligence. He'd found the AI tends to become unstable or develop unusual and sometimes essentially sociopathic or criminally insane by human standards personalities when they're simply created whole cloth.

 

That's one of the reason why Eve is being allowed to develop in a similar manner similar to a child. Wynnie was either designed by a cruder method or spontaneously developed self awareness on her own. And was then later tampered with. He'd be fascinated and concerned about her stability.

[Metaphysician]

Re: The Deconstructing of Wynnie Wonder

 

Microman II: This scenario presses pretty much every button he has. Expect a full blown legal campaign for android rights, backed by the resources of the New Sentinels.

 

And while not something he'd think of, specifically, odds of Wynnie being 'impounded' by the New Sentinels 'for the safety of the people around her' approaches 100%. After all, legally, either she's an out of control self-willed AI, *or* the company controlling her is in fact liable for any damage she's done. They can pick one or the other.

 

( this also, not coincidentally, means they have a harder time covering up evidence, and/or engaging in spite reprogramming/destruction )

 

Diomedes: Not so strongly inclined to go full crusade mode, he'd nonetheless probably think of the legal angle mentioned above. At which point, the name of the game is probably spinning everything so the mayor backs Aegis on the matter.

 

Hermes: Scenario as such can't really happen in his own time without major modification. However, if visiting another time, it'd horrify him, once he's suitably convinced Wynnie is self-aware. He'd figure a way to remove the recent reprogramming, post haste, and also disable any interlocks that let anyone reprogram her, ever again. Legal threats would not dissuade him, in the slightest.

 

Mereneptah: See Hermes, re- scenario in own time. If time displaced, however, this situation would strike him as all too sadly familiar, in the broad strokes. While he's probably not skilled enough to do brute force deprogramming or suchlike, he probably could sneak and steal copies of EEI's files easily enough. At that point, its a matter of faking Wynnie's death.

[Arac-4105]

Re: The Deconstructing of Wynnie Wonder

 

Arac-4105 would see this as an obviously malfunctioning robot with superpowers that can be easily reprogrammed: Kill It! Hopefully with a lamppost through the torso or with a clean decapitation. Ideally, hitting it with a tanker truck loaded with either gasoline or liquid nitrogen then with the appropriate followup attack to finish it off.

[Metaphysician]

Re: The Deconstructing of Wynnie Wonder

 

Arac-4105 would see this as an obviously malfunctioning robot with superpowers that can be easily reprogrammed: Kill It! Hopefully with a lamppost through the torso or with a clean decapitation. Ideally' date=' hitting it with a tanker truck loaded with either gasoline or liquid nitrogen then with the appropriate followup attack to finish it off.[/quote']

 

Given that the robot seems to be sentient, isn't that a little excessive?

[Jinx999]

Re: The Deconstructing of Wynnie Wonder

 

Raven would interfere. She's of the rough borderline anti-hero type, but would really hate the idea of being forced to be something you're not by some controlling assh*le. However, she's unlikely to think things through properly or consider the legal position.

 

Ruby, unless you push her buttons, is a rather old fashioned hero and would try to do the right thing and help her.

 

Basically, all of my characters would help her, for one reason or the other.

[Wanderer]

Re: The Deconstructing of Wynnie Wonder

 

Nova would first of all investigate whether WW is actually self-aware. If she isn't, he would not interfere, as he deems owners can do what they want with a non self-aware robot and he rather liked the "adult" version of WW much more, anyway :eg. If she is, he would bully the CEO of the corporation into releasing WW from bondage, by any means necessary. He won't endorse slavery and he cares nothing about human property laws. However, since in all likelihood, both personalities are self-aware, he will suggest creating two bodies for the two personalities, or if that is impossible, to set things up so that the two personalities can share the body on an equal time basis. He will suggest the company hires WW as a paid PR employee, if she's willing.

 

After everything is settled, he will likely befriend "adult" WW as a kindred spirit, asking her for a beer to share some talk about respective adventures. Or, if she is sufficiently good-looking, and "functional" in bed, he might actually ask her for a real date.

[Hermit]

I started to post a theoretical game scenerio about an artificial intelligence terrified for her lost freedom hoping to see how others would have their heroes react...

 

then I realized "I've done this before"

 

I think my brain is calcifying.

[Steve]

1 hour ago, Hermit said:

I started to post a theoretical game scenerio about an artificial intelligence terrified for her lost freedom hoping to see how others would have their heroes react...

 

then I realized "I've done this before"

 

I think my brain is calcifying.

Missed this the first time around. An interesting idea.

[Duke Bushido]

Evryone in my universe would oppose,this, as it is, in my universe, slavery or at the very least abduction.

 

I am not trying to break the paradigm you presented, Sir, but in my universe- owing to aliens, robots, Super-science, etc- the definition of "person" is no longer tied to "made of meat" and hasn't been since.... Mid-nineties, real time?

 

 

Anyway, it stems from a legal case involving a co-GM's pet villain (super-intelligent computer network, humans are rhe source of all evil, blah-blah; heaed it before) during which it was setermined as a matter of precedent that there is intelligence and self-determination, period.  There is no such thing as "artificial" intelligence.  It is either genuine intelligence, or a crafty simulation.  If it is intelligence, then it doesnt matter where that intelligence resides.  (Untelated note: rhis made many ghost and spirit and undead types legal people, too, and entitled to all that pwrsonhood encompasses).

 

So in short: either a trap, or an abduction, period.

 

 

 

They would treat this at the very least as an abduction in progress.  At the woelrst: trafficking or slavery.

[steriaca]

John "Sunburn" Rodgers: Retired superhero with a squeaky clean image and working with the media (the SNN if he was in the Champions Universe), he would gladly leak any information to help Wynnie out. He might have some corporate backlash, but has enough backing from both fans and the Superhero World to put pressure on the company which owns her.

 

Lady Heart: Has no power to actually do anything except to sway the public opinion on the youth level and has some say in the Mystical World. Hir might not be able to do anything to help Wynnie.

 

Then again, magic can interact with technology in strange ways.

 

Jet Justice: Since he is from a future world where intelligence mechanoids exist, he probably wouldn't quite realize that such beings are considered property. And being so concerned about being legal, he might do whatever he could legally to help Wynnie. But he will not do anything illegal to help Wynnie. 

[Asperion]

20 hours ago, Hermit said:

I started to post a theoretical game scenerio about an artificial intelligence terrified for her lost freedom hoping to see how others would have their heroes react...

 

then I realized "I've done this before"

 

I think my brain is calcifying.

 

Go ahead and repeat.  Even if something has been done before,  there is still room for something new to be introduced (look at the Superman clone Homelander). I don't care how diligent your clone is to the original, changes will appear from the setting,  material,  sources,  evolution,  or many other places that the clone will be working from that the original most likely will never discover. 

[Duke Bushido]

To give "personal" reactions from favorite characters over the years (briefly, and one at a time- I hate that I can only acees this board via phone):

 

Maximum is a hyped up "max human potential" fake ninja with a strong sense of justice and a poor sense of how the word works:I.  Left without guidance, he would likely pursue as best he was able, argue passionately (and battle as necessary) with anyone he had to in order to free her.  If he managed to secure her person and was able to determine the nature of the problem (fifty-fifty.  He's not stupid, but he is on the low side of the education slope), he is intelligent enough to know who could help, and has connections via his origin story that very much could help; he would get in touch with them immediately- if he figured out what the problem was.  Otherwise, he would let her "lay low" at his apartment (again: a bit naive and not known for intelligence) and spend a lot of time wrangling her against her recall directive until either she stopped asking for help or he figured out what the nature of the problem actually is.

 

Panther would tag her with a locator, determine her destination, and upon learning it, she would go through her files (she's a part-time corporate spy- long story) to see what she could learn that she didnt already know.   

 

If she figured it out, she would first week out advice from savvy-in-the-fiwld contacts, rig up a jammer or disabler (and find the disabler extremely distasteful, no matter how necessary, and pull together anyone with the skills she lacks (that she finds necessary for this mission) and pull off a stealth abduction, all whike copying everything Edge E has in any computer her software can crack remotely.  She wouldnt do anything with it unless,necessary, and if not forced to release it, would use it as leverage against future behavior.

 

Done for now.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I mean, its a robot, so its doing what it has been programmed to do.  If it does something destructive or puts people in the hospital then the people who created the machine are responsible and legally on the line for what their product did.  Its unlikely the heroes even need to get involved, other than possibly  capturing the bot and reprogramming it back to a previous setting or restoring to original code.

[death tribble]

You could throw a real spanner in the works by turning the robot into a human being. That is where reality warpers are such a problem.

 

Which reminds me of Megaplayboy's legal thread which I enjoyed. And I threw out a situation involving a bot. Here is where it began in said thread.

There are other examples of property there as well which may well have a bearing

 

[Duke Bushido]

12 hours ago, death tribble said:

You could throw a real spanner in the works by turning the robot into a human being. That is where reality warpers are such a problem.

 

Which reminds me of Megaplayboy's legal thread which I enjoyed. And I threw out a situation involving a bot. Here is where it began in said thread.

There are other examples of property there as well which may well have a bearing

 

 

 

Okay, I popped over there and checked that out, and thwre were some interesting things, but I have to say that you, Sir (presumed; apaologies if I have erred), seem to picking on the lawyers a bit. 

 

Well, nit pikcing on, as such, but I am reminded of the George Carlin skit about Sunday School questions:

 

"... Suppes that you sosnt make... Your Easter duty.   -- and you"re on a ship at sea!  And the chaplain has fallen into a coma.,.   But then you cross the international waterline, and it's Monday; too late!  But you _wanted_ to recieve...!..woukd that then be a sin then, Faddaah...?"