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is having DNPC as follower legal


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Re: is having DNPC as follower legal

 

alright

 

Thomas "Tex" Travis

 

owns

 

WISKEY THE WONDER DOG

 

who is a follower and a DNPC

 

would you allow this in your campain

 

 

Lord Ghee

 

Personally no. Also, the book doesn't allow it either.

 

Wouldn't that depend on the level of the DNPC and Follower? Is he really just a SIDEKICK (using the sidekick rules) ???

 

Going by the book, a NPC is either a DNPC or a Follower, not both. But what are these "Sidekick Rules" you mention?

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Re: is having DNPC as follower legal

 

I'd not allow a follower to also be the character's DNPC.

 

What I would allow, however, is the character to take a Psychological Limitation to reflect the strong emotional attachment that exists between the "leader" and the follower. e.g. Psych. Lim: Loves Wiskey as if the dog were his own child.

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Re: is having DNPC as follower legal

 

I would not allow them to buy a Follower then off set the points by picking up DNPC for the same character/creature/pet.

I would allow the GM to use my Follower to create story items similar to how they would use a DNPC.

If it's just a dog, I'd be OK with it. If it's a "dog" that can do anything a human can do except talk and write I'd have a problem with it. OTOH, if it's just a reasonably ordinary dog then I wouldn't make the player pay points for it at all (If he buys Animal Handler: Canines then he might even train it to do some useful things). If his ordinary dog gets him into trouble constantly, then it becomes a DNPC.

 

I allow Contacts to work in both directions too (assuming the Contact has some way to get in touch with the PC).

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Re: is having DNPC as follower legal

 

alright

 

Thomas "Tex" Travis

 

owns

 

WISKEY THE WONDER DOG

 

who is a follower and a DNPC

 

would you allow this in your campain

 

 

Lord Ghee

 

I'd need more details to be sure, but generally no. A DNPC is generally someone who depends on you and is "just a regular person". Anyone you pay points for - follower, contact, whatever, - has useful abilities to you. A DNPC generally doesn't. DNPCs are disadvantages because they are a hinderance. Followers cost you points because they are generally a help. While there might be an occasional case where both would apply(like buying Reputation as both a Perk and a Disadvantage), as a general rule I have a hard time seeing this one.

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Re: is having DNPC as follower legal

 

alright

 

Thomas "Tex" Travis

 

owns

 

WISKEY THE WONDER DOG

 

who is a follower and a DNPC

 

would you allow this in your campain

 

 

Lord Ghee

 

There was a time when Robin was both: Fought alongside Batman effectively, but also needed to be rescued a lot.

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Re: is having DNPC as follower legal

 

Personally no. Also, the book doesn't allow it either.

 

 

 

Going by the book, a NPC is either a DNPC or a Follower, not both. But what are these "Sidekick Rules" you mention?

 

It does say this (5ER page 332). Apparently, 5ER doesn't distinguish between 'less useful' and 'as useful but also causes problems'.

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Re: is having DNPC as follower legal

 

DNPC: Useful skills. Use it all the time for sidekicks who are both helpful and prone to hostage situations...

 

Thinking on it, though, having a Follower who is nearly always around and useful, but is also a DNPC (8-) who ocasionally gets in trouble and requires the PC's assistance seems a very reasonable application of the two mechanics to the SFX of a sidekick-type who is pretty much always with the hero, generally very helpful, but occasionally requires assistance himself.

 

Would you let a 350 point Super (or a 150 point fantasy character) have a 275 point (75 point) sidekick (animal follower) accompany him pretty much all the time, generally providing considerable assistance, and occasionally need some help himself by taking a 0 point Disadvantage (DNPC, 8-, almost as powerful as hero), or pay 5 points (that sets off other disadvantages like selling back running sets off other powers) to add Useful Noncombat Skills?

 

Viewed in that light, I think a character who serves double duty as both a follower and a DNPC makes a lot of sense - book legal or not.

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Re: is having DNPC as follower legal

 

Would you let a 350 point Super (or a 150 point fantasy character) have a 275 point (75 point) sidekick (animal follower) accompany him pretty much all the time, generally providing considerable assistance, and occasionally need some help himself by taking a 0 point Disadvantage (DNPC, 8-, almost as powerful as hero), or pay 5 points (that sets off other disadvantages like selling back running sets off other powers) to add Useful Noncombat Skills?

 

Viewed in that light, I think a character who serves double duty as both a follower and a DNPC makes a lot of sense - book legal or not.

 

But the book says (everybody say it together, since we all know what is coming): "... unless the GM specifically permits him to." :rolleyes:

 

For a 200+150 Super, wouldn't a 200+75 Follower cost only 40 points?

 

I don't follow the part starting with "or pay 5 points..."? :confused:

 

Personally, I would allow a Follower to also be taken as a DNPC but the DNPC Disad is worth 0 points. After all, being the follower of a hero means that occasionally being in trouble is part of the job description.

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Re: is having DNPC as follower legal

 

Personally' date=' I would allow a Follower to also be taken as a DNPC but the DNPC Disad is worth 0 points. After all, being the follower of a hero means that occasionally being in trouble [i']is part of the job description[/i].
I agree a Follower who is also a DNPC should have a minimal value as a Disad - 0 or 5 points seem about right. Seems to me a DNPC who is also a Follower probably has a 14- Occurrence rate.

 

Looking at the DNPC rules a bit more closely, it seems to me that Follower/DNPC kind of blur in the middle. It's entirely possible to have a DNPC who is just as useful as a Follower (Useful Skills or Position; Almost As Powerful, etc.). The only real difference seems to be that DNPCs tend to get in trouble more often; and that may just be a genre trope.

 

My thought is that if he's more hindrance than help he's a DNPC; if he's more help than trouble he's a Follower; and if he's both equally then it really doesn't matter because if the player character takes the "sidekick" as both Follower and DNPC then the value of the Disad will be predetermined by how useful and powerful said sidekick is. Just apply the same categories to the DNPC as to the Follower (Useful Skills or Position; Almost As Powerful, etc.) and calculate on that basis. If he's really useful, then the Disad will be worth 0 points by the rules anyway and just becomes background. Most of the time a player would be better taking a 0 point Disad anyway because Follower costs points whereas DNPC doesn't and he's not going to get extra points for a truly useful DNPC anyway.

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Re: is having DNPC as follower legal

 

But the book says (everybody say it together, since we all know what is coming): "... unless the GM specifically permits him to." :rolleyes:

 

For a 200+150 Super, wouldn't a 200+75 Follower cost only 40 points?

 

The figures I place in parentheses are not costs, but a Fantasy alternative to the Super example.

 

I don't follow the part starting with "or pay 5 points..."? :confused:?

 

Well, we've established that the Sidekick should cost 40 points if he's purchased as a Follower who occasionally gets into trouble. But what causes him to get into trouble? No mechanic makes the follower - for whom the player paid points - detrimental instead of beneficial. The suggestion is that this sidekick-type who is pretty much always with the hero, generally very helpful, but occasionally requires assistance himself is a DNPC with useful abilities, but that's no better. This is where my 5 point example comes from.

 

The sidekick will accompany the main character pretty much all the time, generally providing considerable assistance, but will occasionally need some help himself. The DNPC asp[ec only covers him needing assistance.

 

Can the hero take a 0 point Disadvantage (DNPC, 8-, almost as powerful as hero) to have a sidekick who's always in the game, but only gets into trouble rarely? If the Sidekick also has useful skills, that's a 5 point reduction, so a negative 5 point disadvantage. The Super now needs 155 points of other disadvantages to total 150. Why not have 10 such followers and 200 points of othr disad's?

 

If the character is purchased as a Follower - paying for the advantages of the sidekick - it should be permissable to claim him as a DNPC also, getting credit for only the detrimental aspects of the DNPC (so an 8-, 5 point disad).

 

Personally' date=' I would allow a Follower to also be taken as a DNPC but the DNPC Disad is worth 0 points. After all, being the follower of a hero means that occasionally being in trouble is part of the job description.

 

So a follower who rarely, if ever, causes the hero trouble ("DNPC 5-") has precisely the same value as one who requires asistance almost constantly ("DNPC 14-"), and both are pretty much always with the hero?

 

Or, one sidekcik is always around, and gets in trouble on occasion, while the other is only around when he gets into trouble?

 

I'm not seeing either as being equitable.

 

I agree a Follower who is also a DNPC should have a minimal value as a Disad - 0 or 5 points seem about right. Seems to me a DNPC who is also a Follower probably has a 14- Occurrence rate.

 

But I don't want a sidekick who's nearly constantly in trouble. I want a sidekick who joins my character in virtually every adventure, and is generally helpful and beneficial to the character. That's more frequent than 14-. However, on rare occasions, he gets in over his head and needs the PC's help to assist him (thus the DNPC aspect of the character acts 8-).

 

Looking at the DNPC rules a bit more closely' date=' it seems to me that Follower/DNPC kind of blur in the middle. It's entirely possible to have a DNPC who is just as useful as a Follower (Useful Skills or Position; Almost As Powerful, etc.). The only real difference seems to be that DNPCs tend to get in trouble more often; and that may just be a genre trope.[/quote']

 

The big difference I perceive is that DNPC's typically apear only to get in trouble. An 8- DNPC spends most of his time offstage. The combination "follower/DNPC" would be on stage most of the time as a follower, but occasionally the DNPC aspect would kick in, and the follower would get into trouble.

 

Looking at this from another angle, should Our Hero recover 5 points as disad's because his DNPC occasionally gets into trouble (infrequent, slightly less powerful) or get a Psych Lim for "Loyalty to Sidekick" - Uncommon (he's always around but rarely needs assistance) Strong for a minimum 10 points?

 

My thought is that if he's more hindrance than help he's a DNPC; if he's more help than trouble he's a Follower; and if he's both equally then it really doesn't matter because if the player character takes the "sidekick" as both Follower and DNPC then the value of the Disad will be predetermined by how useful and powerful said sidekick is. Just apply the same categories to the DNPC as to the Follower (Useful Skills or Position; Almost As Powerful' date=' etc.) and calculate on that basis. If he's really useful, then the Disad will be worth 0 points by the rules anyway and just becomes background. Most of the time a player would be better taking a 0 point Disad anyway because Follower costs points whereas DNPC doesn't and he's not going to get extra points for a truly useful DNPC anyway.[/quote']

 

Is it reasonable that the character can obtain exactly the same follower - one who is quite useful, always around and occasionally gets into trouble - by either paying a significant amount of character points, say 40 points, or by taking a zero point disadvantage? 40 points seems like a pretty significant swing to me.

 

A follower who always provides benefits should clealry cost points. One who always needs assistance should clearly generate disadvantage points. But one in the middle - who provides both benefits and drawbacks - has elements of both and should reasonably be purchased as both - buy the follower aspect and get points for the disadvantageous aspects.

 

You buy Spatial Awareness and take Blindness as a disadvantage. You don't net the two costs and get the difference as a power cost or disadvantage value. This really isn't different, philosophically.

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Re: is having DNPC as follower legal

 

Not everyone is going purchase a 40 point superhero-class Follower. It's pretty obvious the IP question was regarding a Pulp-style game (probably at the 150 point level) where even 10 points is a big deal. In lower point games it seems perfectly reasonable for the cost of Follower and DNPC to cancel (or nearly) each other out.

 

Ultimately, the main difference between a Follower and a DNPC is that with a DNPC it's the GM's character and with a Follower it's the player's secondary character. If it's both the the GM can "take control" as he sees fit.

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Re: is having DNPC as follower legal

 

Not everyone is going purchase a 40 point superhero-class Follower. It's pretty obvious the IP question was regarding a Pulp-style game (probably at the 150 point level) where even 10 points is a big deal. In lower point games it seems perfectly reasonable for the cost of Follower and DNPC to cancel (or nearly) each other out.

 

Ultimately, the main difference between a Follower and a DNPC is that with a DNPC it's the GM's character and with a Follower it's the player's secondary character. If it's both the the GM can "take control" as he sees fit.

 

Followers are NPCs (5ER page 82). Unlike DNPC's, they are automatically loyal to the PC, but that is not quite being 'the player's secondary character'.

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Re: is having DNPC as follower legal

 

Not everyone is going purchase a 40 point superhero-class Follower. It's pretty obvious the IP question was regarding a Pulp-style game (probably at the 150 point level) where even 10 points is a big deal. In lower point games it seems perfectly reasonable for the cost of Follower and DNPC to cancel (or nearly) each other out.

 

40 points or 10 points, the original issue isn't solved. If the character's follower is almost always there, but only rarely a problem for the PC, how does that get recociled with the exact same NPC which is solely a DNPC, so not around to be useful unless his 8- DNPC roll comes up.

 

Cancelling out 10 points is also very different from a 10 point Perk and a 10 point disad. I'd much rather have a 0 point disad and 10 more points to spend on my character - coming up with disad's has never been a problem I've had difficulty with. And, as you say, at that level, even 10 points is a big deal, so getting a follower with a 10 point value and keeping my other 150 points to buy other abilities is a big deal.

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Re: is having DNPC as follower legal

 

40 points or 10 points' date=' the original issue isn't solved. If the character's follower is almost always there, but only rarely a problem for the PC, how does that get recociled with the exact same NPC which is solely a DNPC, so not around to be useful unless his 8- DNPC roll comes up.[/quote']When you get right down to it, an NPC that is both Follower and DNPC would simply not be as useful as one that is strictly a Follower. We're not talking a superhero game with Krypto here; we're talking about a heroic-level game with a trained dog.

 

Cancelling out 10 points is also very different from a 10 point Perk and a 10 point disad. I'd much rather have a 0 point disad and 10 more points to spend on my character - coming up with disad's has never been a problem I've had difficulty with. And, as you say, at that level, even 10 points is a big deal, so getting a follower with a 10 point value and keeping my other 150 points to buy other abilities is a big deal.
Every campaign I've ever seen would subtract the 10 points for the Follower from the initial character points available, leaving the player to build his character with only 140 points. I've never seen a game where the player can just take as many Disads as he likes up to whatever power level he likes.
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Re: is having DNPC as follower legal

 

When you get right down to it' date=' an NPC that is both Follower and DNPC would simply not be as useful as one that is strictly a Follower. We're not talking a superhero game with Krypto here; we're talking about a heroic-level game with a trained dog.[/quote']

 

He would neither be as useful as a pure follower nor as disadvantageous as a pure DNPC. Seems reasonable that the player pay the points for the follower (useful aspect) and get points for the disadvantageous aspects (DNPC) to me.

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Re: is having DNPC as follower legal

 

Well' date=' we've established that the Sidekick should cost 40 points if he's purchased as a Follower who occasionally gets into trouble. But what causes him to get into trouble? No mechanic makes the follower - for whom the player paid points - detrimental instead of beneficial.[/quote']

 

No mechanic is needed for the GM to occasionally use the Follower as a Plot Hook, IMO.

 

Can the hero take a 0 point Disadvantage (DNPC' date=' 8-, almost as powerful as hero) to have a sidekick who's always in the game, but only gets into trouble rarely?[/quote']

 

Sure, a charactger can take as many 0 pt Disads as they want. ;)

 

If the Sidekick also has useful skills' date=' that's a 5 point reduction, so a negative 5 point disadvantage.[/quote']

 

No. There is no such thing as a -5 pt Disad, i.e., a Disad that the character has to *pay* points for the pleasure of having.

 

If the character is purchased as a Follower - paying for the advantages of the sidekick - it should be permissable to claim him as a DNPC also' date=' getting credit for only the detrimental aspects of the DNPC (so an 8-, 5 point disad).[/quote']

 

IMO it is expected that the Follower will be used as a plot element/hook from time to time -- it's part of the job description.

 

So a follower who rarely' date=' if ever, causes the hero trouble ("DNPC 5-") has precisely the same value as one who requires asistance almost constantly ("DNPC 14-"), and both are pretty much always with the hero?[/quote']

 

It seems that if the follower is almost constantly getting into trouble that requires the hero's intervention, then either the character controlling him is doing it deliberately, or the GM is taking way too many liberties. IMO, followers shouldn't be that much trouble -- after all, you paid points for him.

 

Or' date=' one sidekick is always around, and gets in trouble on occasion, while the other is only around when he gets into trouble?[/quote']

 

IMO a follower is around pretty much most of the time the character needs/wants him to be. Just to be clear, IMO "Being around" when a combat breaks out is not "getting into trouble".

 

I'm not seeing either as being equitable.

 

Personally, I'n not seeing any problem unless either the player and/or the GM is taking extreme (IMO) liberties with the follower.

 

But I don't want a sidekick who's nearly constantly in trouble. I want a sidekick who joins my character in virtually every adventure' date=' and is generally helpful and beneficial to the character.[/quote']

 

Then buy a follower and don't treat him as a DNPC and express to your GM that he's the former and not the latter. Problem solved.

 

That's more frequent than 14-. However' date=' on rare occasions, he gets in over his head and needs the PC's help to assist him (thus the DNPC aspect of the character acts 8-).[/quote']

 

This is one if the possible areas where I think mixing the two skews things, "muddying the water" as it were. Which IMO is likely why the rule as it exists came about.

 

The big difference I perceive is that DNPC's typically apear only to get in trouble. An 8- DNPC spends most of his time offstage. The combination "follower/DNPC" would be on stage most of the time as a follower' date=' but occasionally the DNPC aspect would kick in, and the follower would get into trouble.[/quote']

 

The idea about "stage time" and usefulness (or lack thereof) isn't without merit. I just think that mixing the two makes things that aren't absolutely 100% one or the other even less clear, and needs to be worked out with your GM beforehand to the satisfaction of both.

 

Looking at this from another angle' date=' should Our Hero recover 5 points as disad's because his DNPC occasionally gets into trouble (infrequent, slightly less powerful) or get a Psych Lim for "Loyalty to Sidekick" - Uncommon (he's always around but rarely needs assistance) Strong for a minimum 10 points?[/quote']

 

"Recover" is not the correct terminology, IMO. Taking the DNPC: Your Follower (which is by no means required) does not reduce the cost of said Follower.

 

Is it reasonable that the character can obtain exactly the same follower - one who is quite useful' date=' always around and occasionally gets into trouble - by either paying a significant amount of character points, say 40 points, or by taking a zero point disadvantage? 40 points seems like a pretty significant swing to me.[/quote']

 

Of course it is a big swing. But if you don't pay the 40 points, you don't get the benefits of having a 200 pt Follower at all.

 

A follower who always provides benefits should clealry cost points. One who always needs assistance should clearly generate disadvantage points. But one in the middle - who provides both benefits and drawbacks - has elements of both and should reasonably be purchased as both - buy the follower aspect and get points for the disadvantageous aspects.

 

Again, I'm not disagreeing outright. :) I just think the ramifications need to be worked out carefully beforehand between GM and player.

 

40 points or 10 points' date=' the original issue isn't solved. If the character's follower is almost always there, but only rarely a problem for the PC, how does that get recociled with the exact same NPC which is solely a DNPC, so not around to be useful unless his 8- DNPC roll comes up.[/quote']

 

Actually, if his 8- roll "comes up" that is an indication to the GM that it's "time" to work the DNPC into the story in such a way that they are dependent upon the PC. Thus the 'D' before the 'NPC'. ;)

 

Cancelling out 10 points is also very different from a 10 point Perk and a 10 point disad. I'd much rather have a 0 point disad and 10 more points to spend on my character - coming up with disad's has never been a problem I've had difficulty with. And' date=' as you say, at that level, even 10 points is a big deal, so getting a follower with a 10 point value and keeping my other 150 points to buy other abilities is a big deal.[/quote']

 

Not only is it a big deal, it's not how the rules work (not that you are saying that). :)

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Re: is having DNPC as follower legal

 

He would neither be as useful as a pure follower nor as disadvantageous as a pure DNPC. Seems reasonable that the player pay the points for the follower (useful aspect) and get points for the disadvantageous aspects (DNPC) to me.
I thought you were arguing against that position? Have you changed your mind?
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Re: is having DNPC as follower legal

 

I thought you were arguing against that position? Have you changed your mind?

 

I'm arguing that there is considerable logic to paying for the Follower aspect and receiving a disadvantage for the DNPC aspect. You could have:

 

(a) A 200 point follower who is not a DNPC. You get all the benefits of a 200 point follower. On rare occasions, he might be used as a plot hook, but he would cause nowhere near the issues of a DNPC, 8-.

 

(B) A 200 point DNPC who is not a follower. You get none of the benefits of a 200 point follower although, on rare occasions, he might be useful in some fashion.

 

© A 200 point follower who also a DNPC. You get all the benefits of a 200 point follower. He brings with him all the drawbacks of a DNPC, at the frequency you set by the disadvantage level you selected.

 

The more I consider this, the more I also come to believe that the "useful non-combat skills" reduction should be eliminated in favour of buying your DNPC as a Contact if you want to get that sort of benefit from him.

 

In short, my position is "pay for the benefits and get points for the drawbacks". That's how Hero is supposed to work.

 

No mechanic is needed for the GM to occasionally use the Follower as a Plot Hook' date=' IMO.[/quote']

 

If the player pays points for an ability and gets a disadvantage tacked on, I think the GM is abusing the word "occasionally". If the intent is to have a follower with a DNPC aspect, each mechanical aspect should, in my view, be separately costed and acquired.

 

Sure' date=' a character can take as many 0 pt Disads as they want. ;)[/quote']

 

Perhaps you might also address the underlying issue. If it's OK for the GM to use the Follower the player paid 40 points for as a DNPC, 8-, with no points to the player, it should be equally OK for the player to take the DNPC, 8-, and get all the benefits of that DNPC as a follower, right? Or do the rules change when the player would get an advantage, instead of a drawback, at no point impact?

 

There are two aspects to the NPC in question. He provides the benefits of being a 200 point follower and the drawbacks of being a DNPC, 8-. Why is it difficult to envision that being purchased as both a Follower and a DNPC?

 

If the character had a 200 point follower and a different 200 point DNPC, 8-, the result would be crystal clear. Why should the points play out any differently because the same NPC serves both functions? Using the same NPC, rather than two different ones, is just special effects, and should not change the mechanics.

 

No. There is no such thing as a -5 pt Disad' date=' i.e., a Disad that the character has to *pay* points for the pleasure of having.[/quote']

 

Even better. I'll have 100 point DNPC's, amazingly more powerful, numerous useful noncombat skills, always around to help me out, rarely needs my assistance. Even if one needs help, the other 99 will be around to help him out. Remember, you said I can have as many 0 point disad's as I want :rolleyes:

 

IMO it is expected that the Follower will be used as a plot element/hook from time to time -- it's part of the job description.

 

When this goes beyond occasionally to approach the same level as DNPC, 8- (or 11-, or 14-) then I believe the character should get points. I wouldn't let him have the follower for free, so why should I believe it is reasonable that he get saddled with the DNPC for free?

 

It seems that if the follower is almost constantly getting into trouble that requires the hero's intervention' date=' then either the character controlling him is doing it deliberately, or the GM is taking way too many liberties. IMO, followers shouldn't be that much trouble -- after all, you paid points for him.[/quote']

 

Unless the PLAYER decides the follower should be that much trouble by taking him as a DNPC at the appropriate level. And if he occasionally gets in trouble, say every four or five adventures, that's a DNPC, 8-.

 

Then buy a follower and don't treat him as a DNPC and express to your GM that he's the former and not the latter. Problem solved.

 

OK, I'll say it once more. The problem is that your DON'T have the option of taking him as both a follower and a DNPC where this is the CHARACTER as envisioned. This NPC is more complex than "my always-useful follower" or "my always-needy DNPC". Why should the game not appropriately cost/reward the mixed advantages and drawbacks of the more complex NPC who fills two different roles?

 

The idea about "stage time" and usefulness (or lack thereof) isn't without merit. I just think that mixing the two makes things that aren't absolutely 100% one or the other even less clear' date=' and needs to be worked out with your GM beforehand to the satisfaction of both.[/quote']

 

That describes pretty much every character, IMO, and would not be changed at all by removing the "no NPC can be both a follower and a DNPC". Let's complicate it further. I take my loyal squire as a Follower. My teammate takes his nephew as a DNPC. His nephew is my squire. There's no rule against that AND it's a nice link between two PC's. Why should the mechanics differ if my squire is my own nephew?

 

"Recover" is not the correct terminology' date=' IMO. Taking the DNPC: Your Follower (which is by no means required) does not reduce the cost of said Follower.[/quote']

 

No one is saying it is required. In fact, by the rules as written, it is prohibited. I am saying it should not be prohibited - the option should exist for the same NPC to serve both roles.

 

Actually' date=' if his 8- roll "comes up" that is an indication to the GM that it's "time" to work the DNPC into the story in such a way that they are [i']dependent[/i] upon the PC. Thus the 'D' before the 'NPC'. ;)

 

In my experience, DNPC's don't hang around all the time, being useful unless their roll comes up. They appear as window dressing on occasion, and impediments (their true function) more commonly. The OP wants an NPC that is both Follower and DNPC. I see no compelling reason the rules should preclude this.

 

The approach I like is to take both mechanics independently. That seems better than reducing the cost of a follower for also being a DNPC, or reducing the value of the DNPC disadvantage for the fact the NPC also provides advantages to the PC. Any of the three, however, is superior to "No, you can't do that."

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