Better Block

[Sean Waters]

I know this idea has been kicked around the shop before, but not for a while.

 

How would it be if we had a power that allowed you to block in melee as a power, either an add on to missile deflect or a seperate power. I'm not suggesting we should remove the basic or martial maneouvre, just that we should have a power that allows you to block attacks in addition to them.

 

I think it would allow the building of effects that are tricky at best at present.

 

Pros and cons? Other thoughts?

[AwesomusPrime]

Re: Better Block

 

I can't see as how an additional block on your phase is needed enough to warrant a seperate power but an automatic blocking power that would allow you to not loose your next phase while blocking.

 

In fact from an effects PoV, I think we could be talking about automated defense maneuvers in general.

 

Either way when I started this post I was sure I could come up with something, but now I can't so I'll come back.

 

I know lately there's been hot debate, from soffocation to can I do this and so on, but I think these "How could we do X that's in the rules but not this way" threads are quite interesting when the debate comes off right.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Better Block

 

The rules allow you to build Missile Deflection with a 0 Time Reset Trigger.

 

The problem is that a basic Block has no 'cost' associated with it.

 

If you want to build a basic Block with Advantages the base cost should be 20 (the minimum that I would allow Missile Deflect to use a Trigger build).

 

This is completely house rule territory though.

 

I can see many balance issue reasons to not allow either option in a game as it sets up a personal defense arguably as good or better than Desolidification or a Force Wall at the campaign max DC with the only drawbacks being a relatively high active point cost and the chance of failure (basically an opposed 'activation' roll) which can be mitigated with 5 point levels.

[Utech]

Re: Better Block

 

I really can't see any reason why Missile Deflection couldn't be used for HTH attacks.

 

Perhaps rename the Power "Deflection" and (as for Killing Attack) offer HD and RD versions.

 

Trigger could be used to make Deflection activate and reset itself automatically, of course. It might also be possible to make this function as a Damage Shield.

[BoneDaddy]

Re: Better Block

 

How about a martial block damage shield? It would cost, mind you.

 

As for super blockers, reasoning from effect: a desolid can work, a damage shield can work, armor can work, some extra PD can work... Whatever. A block that works just like a block, though, my first suggestion is the best I have.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Better Block

 

Missile Deflection allows you to deflect ranged attacks. Block (a basic combat maneuver) lets you deflect HTH attacks.

 

Missile Reflection (on top of Missile Deflection, of course) allows you to reflect ranged attacks. So what lets you reflect HTH attacks? Well, there's sort of almost kind of but not quite an UMA optional rule for it, but nothing as clear cut as Missile Reflection.

 

I've always been in somewhat in favor of doubling up Missile Deflection and Reflection as a separate HTH Deflection (Everyman; A.K.A. Block) and HTH Reflection (new target has to be in HTH range of both you and the original attacker) set of powers, with the same costs. This allows Advantages to be bought as Naked Advantages for HTH Deflection. I've never done more than think idly about it though; I certainly haven't play tested it.

[AwesomusPrime]

Re: Better Block

 

Had a thought:

 

The effectiveness of your bloc is based on your CV yes? So in essence a point of block can be said to cost 9 points with some kind of limitation. Since Dex does so much, and block is only one aspect let's call it a 2 point lim for arguments sake. That means a point of block costs 3 points.

 

There we go a power.

 

HtH Block: Increase your OCV by 1 point for the purpose of preforming the 'Block' maneuver. 3 points per 1 point OCV.

 

You could probably reduce the cost further, likely to 1 point perhaps? I think 3 works as a starting point for discussion however.

[BoneDaddy]

Re: Better Block

 

That's a one maneuver CSL, for 2 points. I like the idea a great deal.

 

The trouble with missile reflection for hand to hand is that the idea of hitting someone with their own fist, sledgehammer, sword, what have you is extremely silly, especially if you aren't going to disarm them first. As a M-A maneuver it would take a grab, a disarm, and a counter-attack. Multiple triggers? Yikes what a mess. It has a literary basis - people get stabbed with their own knives and swords all the time in movies and books. Their own fists? Not so much. You're turning a roll of five into an eighteen.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Better Block

 

The trouble with missile reflection for hand to hand is that the idea of hitting someone with their own fist' date=' sledgehammer, sword, what have you is extremely silly, especially if you aren't going to disarm them first. As a M-A maneuver it would take a grab, a disarm, and a counter-attack. Multiple triggers? Yikes what a mess. It has a literary basis - people get stabbed with their own knives and swords all the time in movies and books. Their own fists? Not so much. You're turning a roll of five into an eighteen.[/quote']

 

I think you're having trouble with SFX. How often does a hero in a movie duck right at the last second and an enemy hits another antagonist that was standing behind the hero? There are also martial artists that quite often--in movies and in practice--use an attacker's momentum against them in a way that depends a great deal on the power behind the attack.

 

And then we could pop into the realm of fantasy and superheros, where even movie SFX aren't all that important. A superhero who uses literal reflection type SFX, or "wormholes", or carefully timed "desolidification", or even illusions, could easily cause an attacker to hit someone else on a per-attack basis without affecting other story or game mechanics.

[BoneDaddy]

Re: Better Block

 

I think you're having trouble with SFX. How often does a hero in a movie duck right at the last second and an enemy hits another antagonist that was standing behind the hero? There are also martial artists that quite often--in movies and in practice--use an attacker's momentum against them in a way that depends a great deal on the power behind the attack.

 

And then we could pop into the realm of fantasy and superheros, where even movie SFX aren't all that important. A superhero who uses literal reflection type SFX, or "wormholes", or carefully timed "desolidification", or even illusions, could easily cause an attacker to hit someone else on a per-attack basis without affecting other story or game mechanics.

Good points all, and hard to model otherwise. Hmm...