Detect Teleportation Destination

[Mindscape]

I am playing in a Fantasy HERO game which is high magic. Most of the major villians and some of the PC's have the spells that allow them to teleport, some with megascale and some without. Well, a remark by one of the PC's got me thinking about this when he said, "Well, we grab the ring and teleport away. He can't follow us and unless he has been watching us every waking second for the last month or so he can't know all the places we could run to ground." So I was wondering how would you build a spell that lets you know where someone teleported to. Obviously it would be a detect but would it be a single thing, a large class of things, or what and in order to cover say a fairly large kingdom how many levels of telescopic would you have to have since you can't add megascale to it.

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who tries to help me with this most complicated problem.

[Comic]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

Mind Scan to locate the people who just teleported would work.

 

Danger Sense at a high enough level to locate the people about to teleport to you in time to act against them first.

 

An N-Ray, Telescopic Sense with Detect on the appropriate special effect.

 

VPP and the appropriate knowledge skill.

 

Clairsentience with Precognition.

[Beast]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

a stone with a floating location slipped into a pouch or pocket

enhanced sense with tracking and enough telescopic

[Sean Waters]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

Just wanted to say I really like Beast's suggestion of a floating point location on a stone (or a sword, or whatever) that the characters inadvertantly carry round so the villains can always TP to them. Really good use of the power, and not the obvious fix - also means if the PCs are really smart they can use it to their advantage. Kudos.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

Just wanted to say I really like Beast's suggestion of a floating point location on a stone (or a sword' date=' or whatever) that the characters inadvertantly carry round so the villains can always TP to them. Really good use of the power, and not the obvious fix - also means if the PCs are really smart they can use it to their advantage. Kudos.[/quote']

 

"How does he keep finding us!?"

 

Just because you can teleport to one of your Floating Locations, that doesn't tell you exactly where it is at all times. If I take that Floating Location pebble and suspend it in open air over a lake of molten rock in the heart of the dark continent, the guy that the location belongs to doesn't know that. He'll find out once he teleports there (and survives the fall into the magma, of course). But not before. With the exception of a Gate build.

 

I'd build the OP's power like this:

 

52 Teleport Tracker: Detect Teleport Destination (A class of things), Targeting, Discriminatory, Range, Tracking, Telescopic +44.

 

+44 Telescopic is enough to overcome the range mod from 16,777,216 hexes -- which is more than the diameter of the Earth. It isn't for seeing the Origin point -- only to find the Destination. Discriminatory might not be absolutely needed, but I thought it couldn't hurt. Tracking IMO is key, as this is what "connnects" any particular destination with the origin point in question.

 

While it doesn't seem to be anywhere in 5ER, I would apply a Time Penalty to the PER Roll of maybe -2 per step on the Time Chart above 1 Turn to the use of a Tracking sense. "Scents" do fade with time. I might be inclined to grant a PER Roll Bonus based loosely on the AP of the Teleport power that was used. A big, multi-person, world-spanning teleport gate will be easier to detect after the fact than a small 10" personal, comat teleport would be. Like Tracking an Elephant is (IMO) usually easier than tracking a mouse.

 

However, Teleportation w/ Invisible Power Effects (+1/2) would make it very difficult to track.

[Beast]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

if you have the time(like when the villian is telling you his master plan) you could just have him as your floating location

 

if you really want to be cheesy t-port with a piece of rebar pointed where the villian should be when you appear

 

 

"How does he keep finding us!?"

 

Just because you can teleport to one of your Floating Locations, that doesn't tell you exactly where it is at all times. If I take that Floating Location pebble and suspend it in open air over a lake of molten rock in the heart of the dark continent, the guy that the location belongs to doesn't know that. He'll find out once he teleports there (and survives the fall into the magma, of course). But not before. With the exception of a Gate build.

 

I'd build the OP's power like this:

 

52 Teleport Tracker: Detect Teleport Destination (A class of things), Targeting, Discriminatory, Range, Tracking, Telescopic +44.

 

+44 Telescopic is enough to overcome the range mod from 16,777,216 hexes -- which is more than the diameter of the Earth. It isn't for seeing the Origin point -- only to find the Destination. Discriminatory might not be absolutely needed, but I thought it couldn't hurt. Tracking IMO is key, as this is what "connnects" any particular destination with the origin point in question.

 

While it doesn't seem to be anywhere in 5ER, I would apply a Time Penalty to the PER Roll of maybe -2 per step on the Time Chart above 1 Turn to the use of a Tracking sense. "Scents" do fade with time. I might be inclined to grant a PER Roll Bonus based loosely on the AP of the Teleport power that was used. A big, multi-person, world-spanning teleport gate will be easier to detect after the fact than a small 10" personal, comat teleport would be. Like Tracking an Elephant is (IMO) usually easier than tracking a mouse.

 

However, Teleportation w/ Invisible Power Effects (+1/2) would make it very difficult to track.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

If you have the time (like when the villian is telling you his master plan) you could just have him as your floating location.

 

Oh, that's just wrong. Funny, too. But it does raise a question as to what would prevent such a use of Floating Locations. Currently, I know of no way to prevent it, get rid of it, or even detect it.

 

If you really want to be cheesy t-port with a piece of rebar pointed where the villian should be when you appear

 

That's expressly an attack and needs to be purchased as such.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

Oh, that's just wrong. Funny, too. But it does raise a question as to what would prevent such a use of Floating Locations. Currently, I know of no way to prevent it, get rid of it, or even detect it.

 

 

 

That's expressly an attack and needs to be purchased as such.

 

Presumably a dispel could get rid of a FPL, and a pretty darned specialised detect could find it. Actually, given that floating and even fixed locations are very cheap you would not need much dispel, so you could create a spell that 'swept' a large area for FPLs.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

Or a large, more all purpose Dispel against large groups such as "Magic."

 

Right? That should get rid of any FPLs that stem from magic.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

Presumably a dispel could get rid of a FPL' date=' and a pretty darned specialised detect could find it. Actually, given that floating and even fixed locations are very cheap you would not need much dispel, so you could create a spell that 'swept' a large area for FPLs.[/quote']

 

True, but you'd still have to use the Teleporter's DCV (unless it's an AoE Dispel) and Power Defense (5ER, p107).

 

Or a large, more all purpose Dispel against large groups such as "Magic."

 

Right? That should get rid of any FPLs that stem from magic.

 

While Dispel isn't an Adjustment Power, it shares many of their attributes. The one in question is that an Adjustment power (like Drain) can be bought to affect a specific power (like Flight) regardless of SFX -- presuming it's own SFX would permit that.

 

One thing to remember is that Teleport Locations are Adders, and it takes an Advantage to remove adders.

 

So, presuming a valid SFX, Dispel Teleportation - Can Remove Adders(+1); Only Vs Teleport Locations(-1) would be a valid power IMO.

 

For a Dispel or Adjustment Power to affect more than one power takes the Advantage: Variable Effect. But if the power is limited to affecting a single SFX (like Magic), then it (also) takes the Limitation: Limited Special Effect(-1/4 to -1).

[pinecone]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

I am playing in a Fantasy HERO game which is high magic. Most of the major villians and some of the PC's have the spells that allow them to teleport, some with megascale and some without. Well, a remark by one of the PC's got me thinking about this when he said, "Well, we grab the ring and teleport away. He can't follow us and unless he has been watching us every waking second for the last month or so he can't know all the places we could run to ground." So I was wondering how would you build a spell that lets you know where someone teleported to. Obviously it would be a detect but would it be a single thing, a large class of things, or what and in order to cover say a fairly large kingdom how many levels of telescopic would you have to have since you can't add megascale to it.

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who tries to help me with this most complicated problem.

Don't forget about outside the box...what about Precog: Only to see arrival point (or postcog...?)

[pinecone]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

Oh or Mind scan....or detect Dingus, who cares where they went...I just want my Dingus back!

[SteveZilla]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

Dingus Eggs were banned in Type 2 tournaments. You can't have yours back.

 

[Manic Typist]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

 

While Dispel isn't an Adjustment Power, it shares many of their attributes. The one in question is that an Adjustment power (like Drain) can be bought to affect a specific power (like Flight) regardless of SFX -- presuming it's own SFX would permit that.

 

One thing to remember is that Teleport Locations are Adders, and it takes an Advantage to remove adders.

 

So, presuming a valid SFX, Dispel Teleportation - Can Remove Adders(+1); Only Vs Teleport Locations(-1) would be a valid power IMO.

 

For a Dispel or Adjustment Power to affect more than one power takes the Advantage: Variable Effect. But if the power is limited to affecting a single SFX (like Magic), then it (also) takes the Limitation: Limited Special Effect(-1/4 to -1).

 

But just so that I understand... I can buy just a Dispel vs. Magic, and it should do the job, assuming that I have the appropriate Advantage?

 

That way I can be a smart, paranoid (is that redundant) wizard and regularly cast this on myself to cleanse any hostile spells that may have been laid on me that I was unaware of?

[SteveZilla]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

But just so that I understand... I can buy just a Dispel vs. Magic, and it should do the job, assuming that I have the appropriate Advantage?

 

That way I can be a smart, paranoid (is that redundant) wizard and regularly cast this on myself to cleanse any hostile spells that may have been laid on me that I was unaware of?

 

Dispel Magic: Dispel 15d6, all [Magic] powers simultaneously (+2) (135 Active Points)

 

I think I was mistaken earlier in the thought that one could apply a limitation to this power to achieve what the above does.

 

Also, Dispel has hard-coded in it's rules that it does not affect Characteristics, Skills, Perks, or Talents (without GM approval). You might want to discuss with the GM if this would work against a spell that grants/boosts one of those things.

 

While IMO it should work against a Stat/Skill/Perk/Talent granted/boosted with a magic SFX, it should *not* work against a Stat/Skill/Perk/Talent held by a "magical creature". I.e., Dispel Magic should remove the Bull's Strength spell from an opponent, but won't work against the innate STR (or any other stats) of the magical dragon.

 

EDIT: You might want to consider adding Affects Desolidified(+1/2) as well.

[pinecone]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

Dingus Eggs were banned in Type 2 tournaments. You can't have yours back.

 

 

But...without my Dingus egg, how can I make millions as a Dingus rancher?!

[Manic Typist]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

What's a dingus? Google tells me the Type 2 tournament is a Magic: The Gathering reference?

[SteveZilla]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

But...without my Dingus egg' date=' how can I make millions as a Dingus rancher?![/quote']

 

Try using a Dingus Staff to help you with the herding.

 

 

What's a dingus? Google tells me the Type 2 tournament is a Magic: The Gathering reference?

 

Yep. Magic: the Gathering is the game. A Dingus Egg is an Artifact that damages any player when a Land they control is destroyed. It was often used in decks designed to destroy opponent's Land, which denies him Mana to cast his Spells.

 

I couldn't resist the obscure MtG reference.

[pinecone]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

Yep, and in some parts of the USA "Dingus" is used the way "Maguffin" is used in Hollywood...

[SteveZilla]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

When I see the word Maguffin, I keep thinking about a new fast food snack -- the McMuffin.

[OrraBuss]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

I'd build the OP's power like this:

 

52 Teleport Tracker: Detect Teleport Destination (A class of things), Targeting, Discriminatory, Range, Tracking, Telescopic +44.

 

How do you track someone who just skipped over the space between "there" and "here"?

 

The way I read the rules, you have to TRACK the target. "Tracking" does not allow "find her/him/it/them wherever they are."

 

Drop the Tracking, put in 360-Degree Perception. Cost remains the same.

 

BTW, why Targeting? As I read it, the OP asked for a locater, not necessarily some way to attack the teleporter at range.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

How do you track someone who just skipped over the space between "there" and "here"?

 

The way I read the rules, you have to TRACK the target. "Tracking" does not allow "find her/him/it/them wherever they are."

 

That's the beauty of it IMNSHO -- I'm not tracking the person. I'm Sensing all Teleport endpoints worldwide, and using tracking to select just one of those endpoints. The endpoint that "connects" to the startpoint I am viewing -- which is how IMO I can use Tracking. It's a custom Detect of the destinations -- tracking just enables me to pick the "needle from the haystack" as it were.

 

Drop the Tracking, put in 360-Degree Perception. Cost remains the same.

 

BTW, why Targeting? As I read it, the OP asked for a locater, not necessarily some way to attack the teleporter at range.

 

I don't think that 360 perception is needed, since the tracking will "lead" my sense from the startpoint I am viewing to the enpoint it "connects" to. But it wouldn't hurt to include it as well IMO -- it kinda depends upon what kind of GM one has.

 

I figured that to get a precise location for the destination, it would need to be Targeting. Without Targeting, I don't see it as very likely to weed out a specific destination -- especially if there has been a lot of teleports from/to the startpoint/endpoint (which can happen if either/both are Floating Locations for a teleporter).

[OrraBuss]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

That's the beauty of it IMNSHO -- I'm not tracking the person. I'm Sensing all Teleport endpoints worldwide' date='[/quote']

AH!! I didn't realize that was what you were doing. I assumed your intension was to Detect the arrival point of the person you wanted to find.

 

and using tracking to select just one of those endpoints.

I still think that's not what Tracking does. Tracking needs to start from some place, and follow a trail--some remains of the person/thing being tracked--to some other place.

 

Any way, Discriminatory does what your talking about.

 

The endpoint that "connects" to the startpoint I am viewing

But it doesn't connect; that's the nature of Teleportation. Unless bought with "Must Cross Intervening Space" (or the like), Teleportation has no connection between origin and target space.

 

-- which is how IMO I can use Tracking. It's a custom Detect of the destinations -- tracking just enables me to pick the "needle from the haystack" as it were.

Discriminatory.

 

I don't think that 360 perception is needed, since the tracking will "lead" my sense from the startpoint I am viewing to the enpoint it "connects" to. But it wouldn't hurt to include it as well IMO -- it kinda depends upon what kind of GM one has.

I really can not see how you think Tracking can follow the trail of someone who leaves no trail.

 

I figured that to get a precise location for the destination, it would need to be Targeting. Without Targeting, I don't see it as very likely to weed out a specific destination -- especially if there has been a lot of teleports from/to the startpoint/endpoint (which can happen if either/both are Floating Locations for a teleporter).

You "weed out" the location by Detecting a specified person's Teleportation endpoint.

 

As for getting a precise location, you may be right and Targeting is needed.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

AH!! I didn't realize that was what you were doing. I assumed your intension was to Detect the arrival point of the person you wanted to find.

 

I didn't center it upon a person as the Original Poster specified finding a location of a Teleport endpoint and not a person. I realize that there will be some people who disagree with this build's use of Tracking. But IMO Teleportation should not be an absolute, foolproof prevention of being tracked/followed.

 

I still think that's not what Tracking does. Tracking needs to start from some place, and follow a trail--some remains of the person/thing being tracked--to some other place.

 

Any way, Discriminatory does what your talking about.

 

I think Discriminatory would enable me to narrow down the destinations to all of those created by a single teleporter, but not necessarily which one connects to the startpoint in question. A startpoint is not just a location, it is the location of a single, specific teleport. Thus, to differentiate multiple teleport startpoints that happen to be both due to the same person and also in the same location, it's Tracking or maybe Analytical. I went with Tracking because I felt that more closely matched the desired type of information the sense is designed to find.

 

And if there's no connection (by any SFX), then how does the teleporter teleport there? Taken from another angle, Teleport is like saying "There's a 'wall' between where I am and where I want to go, but I have this power that allows me to make there be a door that I use. Teleporting is just making the door, opening it, stepping though, and closing the door."

 

But it doesn't connect; that's the nature of Teleportation. Unless bought with "Must Cross Intervening Space" (or the like), Teleportation has no connection between origin and target space.

 

I really can not see how you think Tracking can follow the trail of someone who leaves no trail.

 

I do think they leave a "trail". Not neccesarily through 3D space, but a trail that can be detected nontheless. Teleportation isn't automatically "fully invisible" in that regard.

 

You "weed out" the location by Detecting a specified person's Teleportation endpoint.

 

As for getting a precise location, you may be right and Targeting is needed.

 

But I'm not detecting a specific person's destination, I am detecting the destination of a specific use of Teleportation.

 

The teleporter gets to where he's going, so there is IMO some sort of connection (if only for game balance). Now, that connection is usually not in the 3D space we are familiar with, but there is a connection -- else how did he get there?

 

I wonder if you might be blurring the distinction between Tracking (the Skill), and Tracking (the Sense Modifier) -- or perhaps be unconsciously thinking too much about the Sense Modifier's usual use on a Smell or Sight sense?

 

Tracking simply says: "A sense with this Sense Modifier ... can be used to identify and track a person or object if the character makes a PER Roll." If using tracking scent, the tracked person takes flight, then it'll just mean the trail leads up into the air, not that the trail just ends. Admittedly, a scent tracking would usually be foiled by a teleport -- but a Detect that can sense the destinations of the teleportations (and thus like N-Ray and Spatial Awareness will IMO penetrate most barriers) should be able to "follow the trail" since it is designed to do just that.

[OrraBuss]

Re: Detect Teleportation Destination

 

I didn't center it upon a person as the Original Poster specified finding a location of a Teleport endpoint and not a person.

No sense logic-chopping. You said

That's the beauty of it IMNSHO -- I'm not tracking the person. I'm Sensing all Teleport endpoints worldwide, and using tracking to select just one of those endpoints

IOW, the way it worked was you need Tracking to seperate one person's TP from ALL OTHER TELEPORTS BY ANYONE ANYWHERE.

I said that a Detect This Person's Teleporting made that unneeded.

 

I realize that there will be some people who disagree with this build's use of Tracking. But IMO Teleportation should not be an absolute, foolproof prevention of being tracked/followed.

 

I think Discriminatory would enable me to narrow down the destinations to all of those created by a single teleporter, but not necessarily which one connects to the startpoint in question.

 

A startpoint is not just a location, it is the location of a single, specific teleport. Thus, to differentiate multiple teleport startpoints that happen to be both due to the same person and also in the same location, it's Tracking or maybe Analytical.

But those happened way back whenever. Unless your Detect has built in retrocog, it would only pick up the current one. I don't see anything that would make a confusion between current and the past.

 

I do think they leave a "trail". Not neccesarily through 3D space' date=' but a trail that can be detected nontheless. Teleportation isn't automatically "fully invisible" in that regard.[/quote']

Then you're Tracking needs Transdimensional. No wait; you need Extra Dim. Move. so you can go to wherever the trace is, so you can follow it.

 

And what of a Teleport thats Probability Manipulation. No going anywhere, just alter probability so you are somewhere.

 

But I'm not detecting a specific person's destination' date=' I am detecting the destination of a [i']specific use of Teleportation[/i].

This is logic chopping and shifting your ground. At first you said you needed Tracking to distiguish someone from everyone else, now its "to seperate one person's one use from all his other uses".

 

The teleporter gets to where he's going' date=' so there is IMO some sort of connection (if only for game balance). Now, that connection is usually not in the 3D space we are familiar with, but there is a connection -- else how did he get there?[/quote']

Could be he was there all a long with a probablity of not quite zero, and now his probablity is much higher.

 

Don't assume an in-game effect.

 

I wonder if you might be blurring the distinction between Tracking (the Skill), and Tracking (the Sense Modifier) -- or perhaps be unconsciously thinking too much about the Sense Modifier's usual use on a Smell or Sight sense?

 

Tracking simply says: "A sense with this Sense Modifier ... can be used to identify and track

Yep, track. Aka trace. Aka find reminents/bits. Its in the dictionary. It doesn't mean "locate at a distance with no contact" So I'm going to call it Tracing not Tracking.

 

OK, you want non-physical tracing, fine. You can trace psychic impressions. You can trace "soul droppings". But you have to follow it. Otherwise, it gets to mean Detect, no difference.