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Power Null


revxopher
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My friend, who will be new to the Heroes System, would like to play a power null character, where by simply being in the room (or with in an area of effect around her) other peoples' powers stop working. If you watch Heroes then think of the Haitian. At first I told her that with the way the rules work that she won't be able to shut down peoples' powers completely and they may only get a bit weaker and she was okay with that. But now I'm looking at the points and I just can't figure out how to make the power in anyway that is cost effective. Can anybody out there give me a hand with this one?

 

-Kenny

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Re: Power Null

 

You probably want a Suppress that is built with Area of Effect (Radius) and No Range. To make it happen all the time you'll need things like Reduced End Cost (0 End) and Persistent. IIRC there is a bit under the Suppress power that talks about "Suppression Fields" or somesuch that might help. Oh, and you're going to have to buy the Suppress to work against all powers of a given Special Effect at once. See the description of Adjustment Powers at the beginning of the Powers section. Be sure to run past your GM the Special Effect of "all inhuman powers" or something like that; not all GMs will consider that a narrow enough range of powers.

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Re: Power Null

 

Instantaneous (Suppress) is hard (expensive).

 

A slow sneaky version is affordable though.

 

example:

 

87 Superpowers? What are superpowers?: Drain Any biological sfx powers 1d6 (standard effect: 3 points), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per 5 Minutes; +1/2), Continuous (+1), Penetrating (x2; +1), Area Of Effect (12" Radius; +1), Can Apply (Remove) Adders (+1), Cumulative (96 points; +1 1/2), Invisible Power Effects, Hide effects of Power (Fully Invisible; +2), all [special effect] powers simultaneously (+2) (130 Active Points); Always On (-1/2)

Notes: Penetrating x2 means that unless a potential target of this power has x2 Hardened Power Defense they will begin to lose their powers at 1 Active Point per Phase.

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Re: Power Null

 

There isn't a way that I have found to do this and have it be cost effective. If you want to limit the effect to a dozen or so powers (say all the common attack powers and defense powers) you can do a Suppression field effect along the lines of:

 

1d6 Suppress - continuous, 0 end, persistent, AoE radius double radius, penetrating, personal immunity, always on, no range (30AP, 15RC)

 

Throw 15 of those for powers of your choice in an EC for around 120pts. Bump it up to 2d6 and you hit 255pts. Alternatively, you can switch those Suppress powers to working on a special effect basis for another +2 advantage and you wouldn't need as many of them if the GM allows for very very broad SFX definitions (on the level of Magic, Mutant, Tech, Supernatural, etc).

 

It is extremely slow to lower powers and can be completely negated by 6pts of hardened Power Defense.

 

A somewhat workable alternative to do what you want is to build it as a VPP that can only be used to build Drains and build them with the Variable Effect advantage at the all powers of a given SFX level and define the SFX as "that individual's powers". It is messy and limits the Drain effect to one person at a time and requires some GM handwaving.

 

There isn't a way to do it that is both decently fast and all encompassing and within a reasonable Active Point limit.

 

Even building it as a Transform (no super powers) field comes out to something crazy like 75 Active Points per die...at least that is just one power though and easier to keep track of, if a bit cheesy. Still slow to take effect though and still stopped completely by very small amounts of hardened Power Defense.

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Re: Power Null

 

here's another stab at it.

 

88 Superpowers? What are superpowers? v2: Drain Any biological sfx powers 1d6 (standard effect: 3 points), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Inherent (+1/4), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4), Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Continuous (+1), Penetrating (x2; +1), Area Of Effect (15" Radius; +1), Can Apply (Remove) Adders (+1), Cumulative (96 points; +1 1/2), Invisible Power Effects, Hide effects of Power (Fully Invisible; +2), all [special effect] powers simultaneously (+2), Multiple Special Effects (All special effects simultaneously; +2) (155 Active Points); Always On (-1/2), Limited Special Effect Very Common SFX (Any biological sfx powers; -1/4)

Notes: Penetrating x2 means that unless a potential target of this power has x2 Hardened Power Defense they will begin to lose their powers at 1 Active Point per Phase.

 

34 Superpowers? What are superpowers? v3 (dubious legality due to Cumulative on Suppress): Suppress 1d6 (standard effect: 3 points), all [special effect] powers simultaneously (+2), Inherent (+1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Area Of Effect (7" Radius; +1), Can Apply (Remove) Adders (+1), Penetrating (x2; +1), Continuous (+1), Cumulative (96 points; +1 1/2), Invisible Power Effects, Hide effects of Power (Fully Invisible; +2), Multiple Special Effects (All special effects simultaneously; +2) (77 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Always On (-1/2), Limited Special Effect Very Common SFX (Any biological sfx powers; -1/4)

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Re: Power Null

 

It was settled that Cumulative is not a valid/legal advantage for Suppress since it already has cumulative properties (just like how you can't add Cumulative to an Energy Blast because the effect of reducing Stun and Body are already cumulative).

 

I don't think very many GMs would allow the "biological sfx" to be nearly as broad as what is desired by the concept.

 

There are a great many ways to build the effect if the GM is willing to do some hand waving. I think that the best possible way to do this is for the GM to make a new power and define the effect and pricing and any possible adders and what advantages/limitations are legal. It will clean it up and the GM can balance it as he/she sees fit right from the start.

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Re: Power Null

 

I don't think very many GMs would allow the "biological sfx" to be nearly as broad as what is desired by the concept.

 

 

By the way, I'm just using HDv3 to pick and choose the various Advantages.

 

I just edited v2 to highlight the Advantage dealing with that specific issue.

I forgot it on the first build.

 

As built v2 would affect Superman, Spider-Man, Hulk, any mutant.

It would NOT affect Iron Man, Green Lantern, Captain Marvel (his powers are from Magic), ditto for Wonder Woman, etc... .

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Re: Power Null

 

It was settled that Cumulative is not a valid/legal advantage for Suppress since it already has cumulative properties (just like how you can't add Cumulative to an Energy Blast because the effect of reducing Stun and Body are already cumulative).

 

 

Was that a FAQ answer?

 

according to:

 

Hero System 5th Edition, Revised ■ Chapter One

POWERS

page 111

 

Cumulative: Characters should not apply Cumulative to Adjustment Powers that increase a Power or Characteristic (such as Aid or Absorption), since they have their own rules for how many Character Points they can add to a particular Characteristic or Power and how and at what rate they’re added. Th ey can apply Cumulative to Adjustment Powers that decrease a Power or Characteristic (such as Suppress).
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Re: Power Null

 

I don't recall if it was in the FAQ or just Steve answering questions...I think it is in the FAQ though. As I recall he stated that the book was wrong to use that example (not that it was a misprint, but that it was determined later that Suppress shouldn't be eligible).

 

Someone correct me if I am wrong on that please. It is entirely possible that my senility is showing today...It is Friday and I no longer wish to be here at work so have begun shutting off mental processes in an effort to reduce my pain and suffering.

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Re: Power Null

 

Actually according to the FAQ:

 

http://www.herogames.com/rulesFAQ.htm?ruleset=&section=&keywords=cumulative&dateString=

Can a character make a Drain Cumulative?

No. Drain, like EB and RKA, is already “cumulative” on its own.

Working on this inspired me to try building the core power of DCU's Parasite:

 

140 The Parasite: Transfer 1d6 (standard effect: 3 points), Can Transfer Maximum Of 66 Points, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Penetrating (+1/2), Continuous (+1), Transfer From All Powers Simultaneously (+2), Multiple Special Effects (All special effects simultaneously; +2) (315 Active Points); Restrainable (Requires skin contact from his hands to skin of target.; -1/2), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Also gains any biological sfx Disadvantages from the target.; -1/2), Limited Special Effect Very Common SFX (Biological sfx Powers Only; -1/4)

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Re: Power Null

 

The trouble with adjustment powers is that you have to bend the 'class of powers affected' rules - Heroes (the TV show) can get away with assuming everyone has similar power sources, but a lot of games can't.

 

Also don't neglect other slow but sure possibilities:

 

 

Mind Control 2d6, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Penetrating (+1/2), Continuous (+1), Area Of Effect (10" Radius; +1 1/4), Cumulative (192 points; +1 1/2) (60 Active Points); Mandatory Effect EGO +30 or Greater (Must Always Achieve [Particular Effect]; -1), Set Effect (Turn Your Powers Off; -1/2)

 

24 Real points, 60 Active

 

or

 

Major Transform 1/2d6 (target to target without powers, healed by leaving the proximity of the transformer), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Penetrating (+1/2), Continuous (+1), Area Of Effect (5" Radius; +1), Invisible Power Effects, Hide effects of Power (Fully Invisible; +2) (62 Active Points)

 

62 Real and Active points

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Re: Power Null

 

:) I had mentioned both of those Sean, just hadn't written them up.

 

I don't think you would want the +2 level of Invisible Power Effects for this. That would mean that even though you had Suppressed (or whatever) their Force Field to nothing that it would still be glowing away right? I assumed the person being affected would know it and left that at the +1 level.

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Re: Power Null

 

...

 

I don't think you would want the +2 level of Invisible Power Effects for this. That would mean that even though you had Suppressed (or whatever) their Force Field to nothing that it would still be glowing away right? I assumed the person being affected would know it and left that at the +1 level.

 

That fine if the powers are actively being used when being negatively adjusted. However, if they weren't being used at the time of the adjustment the +2 level of IPE is necessary to keep the target(s) from knowing that their powers are being adjusted (like the Haitian from Heroes)

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Re: Power Null

 

I like using Mind Control, One Command Only, "Don't use your Superpowers" for this. Just give the character Area of Effect, 0 End, and as many d6 as you feel she needs.

 

It's a bit less book keeping, avoids some "I don't have powers, I'm an actual Robot" type arguments, and makes a strong will more important than raw power for overcoming the Null.

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Re: Power Null

 

I like using Mind Control, One Command Only, "Don't use your Superpowers" for this. Just give the character Area of Effect, 0 End, and as many d6 as you feel she needs.

 

It's a bit less book keeping, avoids some "I don't have powers, I'm an actual Robot" type arguments, and makes a strong will more important than raw power for overcoming the Null.

 

 

Very true. However this type of build would be limited vs. some Persistent powers (like most portions of Superman's "Invulnerabilty").

The Haitian's version of this ability probably needs the Telepathic Advantage too.

 

example:

 

25 Don't those powers around me! I'm alergic!!: Mind Control 2d6 (standard effect: 6 points), Telepathic (+1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Penetrating (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Invisible Power Effects, Hide effects of Power (Fully Invisible; +1), Continuous (+1), Cumulative (96 points; +1 1/4), Area Of Effect (12" Radius; +1 1/4) (75 Active Points); Mandatory Effect EGO +30 or Greater (Must Always Achieve [Particular Effect]; -1), No Range (-1/2), Set Effect (Don't Use Your Powers; -1/2)

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Re: Power Null

 

I don't think very many GMs would allow the "biological sfx" to be nearly as broad as what is desired by the concept.

 

If that was the ONE AND ONLY power the character had, I might let it go. I would probably also wave bye-bye to AP and DC caps for that power too, and let the player go for the gusto on it. Sure, you can have as big a power as you can afford, and I'll even be rather generous in letting you apply it!

 

Because if the character gets out of hand, well, a VIPER agent or two with their weapons and armor should be able to take the character out quite handily.:D

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Re: Power Null

 

Just as some thoughts on it...

 

The Haitian doesn't seem to have to control the power directly or know someone is there to use it.

 

He loses out on anyone with positive powers. So no healing, no being teleported, etc.

 

It deactivates when he is unconscious.

 

He's in no way immune to just regular bullets.

 

 

Side Note: Is it possible to combine Damage Shield and Area of Effect?

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Re: Power Null

 

One thing to remember when creating characters like this is that they exist in a scripted environment, and probably behave far less predictably out in the wild. In practice a character like The Haitian in a game would cut out the powers of his companions, requiring either a re-write so that he could turn the power off or select who it affects (making him significantly more versatile/powerful than the TV version), a campaign where the rest of his team didn't have superpowers, or a very slick GM indeed.

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Re: Power Null

 

One thing to remember when creating characters like this is that they exist in a scripted environment' date=' and probably behave far less predictably out in the wild. In practice a character like The Haitian in a game would cut out the powers of his companions, requiring either a re-write so that he could turn the power off or select who it affects (making him significantly more versatile/powerful than the TV version), a campaign where the rest of his team didn't have superpowers, or a very slick GM indeed.[/quote']

 

Of course, there is the option of running him with hyper-skilled/well-equipped "normals" hunting super-powered individuals as the rest of the party, if he were being featured as a PC.:thumbup:

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Re: Power Null

 

The Haitian can use his power selectively, it is not always on and he controls when to use it and who to use it on.

 

Examples include when he and Eden captured Sylar (She could still use her power on Sylar but Sylar couldn't respond) and when he let Nathan fly away after he and Bennet pulled him out of Linderman's casino.

 

Also it is not impossible to overcome, as was shown by Parkman when he was being held by them in the blue light room (he asks "Who is Claire?").

 

Parkman was easily aware of the 'interference' caused by the Haitian (so not always IPE?), but that also may be because of the sensory nature of Matt's powers at the time.

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